|
Post by chessparov on Aug 25, 2018 15:57:07 GMT -6
My fave TLM's, that I've tried are the TLM 67 and 193. Chris
|
|
ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 15,026
|
Post by ericn on Aug 25, 2018 21:05:39 GMT -6
Yep, Gemini 2. The 103 is actually used more than people admit, but the TLM 102 is a real dog. Au contraire, mon frère! The 103 is a sibilant piece of skut that makes even the worst singer sound even worser... if bad English is accepted. The 102 is a phenomenal little low-weight microphone that is DANDY on ride cymbal, hi-hats, hand percussion, acoustic instrument filler tracks and backing vocals. It is not a lead-vocal microphone but a great compact version of a TLM193. Very much owes it's lineage to the U89 and TLM170 I think Neumann and many Gear Pimps have screwed things up for the TLM 10- and 67, while they are Transformer Less Microphones, they are in no way related to the other mics in this series that are widely excepted in the acoustic and remote recording world. All the TLM 10- can shine in some very specific roles, but they do not shine as the do everything workhorses they are often sold as. In my experience the 103 was pretty blah and unmoving as a vocal or acoustic mic, unless paired with the right ore and even then it was never much of a challenge to blow it away. I’ll admit to selling a bunch of TLM103’s against my advice to guys who had to have a Neumann, I was useally pushing for a Gefell UM70 or UMT but the Neumann name was what they had to have. Now many of these guys were really pissed if I showed up at their place with a Gefell and it useally didn’t leave. The TLM 67 should be the TLM87, the real 67 is a tube mic and the TLM67 has as no tubes, it’s like a 47fet, a nice mic but it just doesn’t live up to what that number means in our world. I know this labeling has sold mics, but honestly I think it has also soured many on Neumann and driven many to more boutique and higher priced mics when the beginner is looking for that next center piece.
|
|
|
Post by Martin John Butler on Aug 25, 2018 21:35:34 GMT -6
I have no real experience with the 102 or 103, other than testing them on headphones in a booth with a nice choice of preamps. So, I would have to defer to Ward's assessment. Still, I know that Jamie Tate of the Ruckus Room uses the 103 a lot, even though he has a vintage U47 as well, so that makes me think maybe there's more to the 103 than I thought. When I tried those mics, I was looking for a male vocal mic, so I wasn't thinking of the 102 or 103 for potential uses other than lead vocals.
In NYC, there's a store called B&H, they have a lovely dedicated mic room with around 20-30 mics to try. With the choice of 4 or 5 high end preamps, you can get a very good idea if a mic is a good fit for your voice. That's how I found out about Soyuz mics, before they were picked up by some big name producers. The Lewitt mics there sound good, and one of them is only $249. There's a new Sony mic, C-100 that sells for around $1,300 that sounded really good.
I can't speak for Jamie, but in a way, using the 103 might qualify as a not so good mic someone gets good results using.
I bet Bob Olhsson must have a few cheap mic stories to tell.
* just remembered, before I worked on a DAW, I tried plugging an $80 Yeti mic into USB and recording in Garage Band. The track was just for a test and not very good, but I got one of the best slide guitar sounds I ever got! Go figure.
|
|
|
Post by chessparov on Aug 25, 2018 22:10:26 GMT -6
Studying Bob O's posts over the years...
He has said to ALWAYS try the SM57 & EV 635a. (merely an amateur here, but I have better luck on a 58)
Also that the best bang for the buck vocal microphone, is the Beyer M88. For the "one in 20" (like me 5+ years ago) singer having sibilance issues with a M88, to use a Sennheiser 441 (within dynamics). Not cheap, but he has high regard for the KM84 as a vocal microphone too.
Chris
|
|
|
Post by jampa on Aug 26, 2018 13:42:52 GMT -6
the "Wurst mic"
|
|
|
Post by Martin John Butler on Aug 28, 2018 8:57:24 GMT -6
Chassparov said, How is the 102 a dog? In thought it sounded good on me, when I tried it."
It depends on the references. By itself, the 102 might seem fine, but right next to the 103 or the U87, it pales in comparison. Way less gain, transparency and clarity.
At the price range of the 102, I'd look at the Lewitt 640 or the Warm WA47.
|
|
|
Post by chessparov on Aug 28, 2018 16:23:06 GMT -6
Good points MJB. Chris
|
|
|
Post by wiz on Aug 28, 2018 16:47:27 GMT -6
I dunno, I bought a pair of 103s, and hated them and flipped them (i had bought them at a liquidation sale)
cheers
Wiz
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2018 17:06:42 GMT -6
I dunno, I bought a pair of 103s, and hated them and flipped them (i had bought them at a liquidation sale) cheers Wiz They are quite a "big" sounding mic, although I can only stand them through an LA-610 MK2 channel.. It does wonders dulling it down and imparting it's own flavour.
|
|
|
Post by jamiesego on Aug 28, 2018 17:56:58 GMT -6
I swapped an MXL V67 over a Beyer M160 once on a banjo. Old electro voice mics get used quite often here. I know someone who has done some killer recordings on a stereo radio shack electret from the 80's.
|
|
|
Post by Guitar on Aug 28, 2018 18:01:38 GMT -6
Oh yeah, the EV mics are great! I wouldn't even say that they are bad.
|
|
|
Post by guitfiddler on Aug 29, 2018 6:11:32 GMT -6
The only thing that I could get the TLM-103 to sound good on was a stereo pair pointed at the knees of the drummer about 2 feet out from the left and right side of the kit. It gave a nice impact from the whole kit in a stereo ambience feed. It worked for this particular instance at that time, in that room. It also worked on a certain female vocal and we were all amazed because I was dogging the idea before we plugged it in and I was proven wrong, in that room, with a particular chain of gear. You know more and more, it all comes down to the particular chain of gear and the way you capture it, at a certain time, in a certain humidity level, just right timing with the stars and moon aligned or in different places. Yeah, something like that...there have been times when I can't even believe I used a Behringer piece of gear and listened back to what I recorded on location and thought, why am I paying for top quality gear.
|
|
|
Post by roundbadge on Aug 31, 2018 14:07:23 GMT -6
I just replaced vocal and acoustic tracks done with 67’s and km56’s through coil pre amps with tracks sang played to a laptop mic into garage band I kid you not the client preferred the laptop vibe in the track
|
|
|
Post by EmRR on Aug 31, 2018 14:18:21 GMT -6
I just replaced vocal and acoustic tracks done with 67’s and km56’s through coil pre amps with tracks sang played to a laptop mic into garage band I kid you not the client preferred the laptop vibe in the track yeah, that's what they know....
|
|
|
Post by Ward on Aug 31, 2018 14:20:13 GMT -6
I just replaced vocal and acoustic tracks done with 67’s and km56’s through coil pre amps with tracks sang played to a laptop mic into garage band I kid you not the client preferred the laptop vibe in the track Fire the client.
|
|
|
Post by roundbadge on Aug 31, 2018 15:03:14 GMT -6
I just replaced vocal and acoustic tracks done with 67’s and km56’s through coil pre amps with tracks sang played to a laptop mic into garage band I kid you not the client preferred the laptop vibe in the track Fire the client. right but I had to let the inner purist in me go on this one and go with the "whatever works" mode. I actually cashed the check with a smile. funny I ran the laptop vx track thru a bluestripe lol. I blended in the fancy acoustic tracks and the laptop ac grr tracks together.. sorta sounded like adding some shimmery aural exciter type deal
|
|
ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 15,026
|
Post by ericn on Aug 31, 2018 15:08:40 GMT -6
right but I had to let the inner purist in me go on this one and go with the "whatever works" mode. I actually cashed the check with a smile. funny I ran the laptop vx track thru a bluestripe lol. It’s all about the guy who’s paying. And laughing all the way to the bank! For instance last night I was at a wake complaining how terrible the SM58 sounded and my wife over our 5th Glass of Boulvard Wheat reminded me “ yeah and how many times did those things pay our rent”
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2018 20:51:08 GMT -6
right but I had to let the inner purist in me go on this one and go with the "whatever works" mode. I actually cashed the check with a smile. funny I ran the laptop vx track thru a bluestripe lol. It’s all about the guy who’s paying. And laughing all the way to the bank! For instance last night I was at a wake complaining how terrible the SM58 sounded and my wife over our 5th Glass of Boulvard Wheat reminded me “ yeah and how many times did those things pay our rent”
As much as I bag on the 7B it's probably the mic I've earn't the most out of, it's not like I'd use a U67 (or probably even an MD441-U) live.. Even in the studio I was reluctant to bring out anything top shelf unless I knew they weren't going to spray beer or french kiss the mic.
Your wife knows how to put things into perspective..
|
|
ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 15,026
|
Post by ericn on Aug 31, 2018 22:06:14 GMT -6
It’s all about the guy who’s paying. And laughing all the way to the bank! For instance last night I was at a wake complaining how terrible the SM58 sounded and my wife over our 5th Glass of Boulvard Wheat reminded me “ yeah and how many times did those things pay our rent”
As much as I bag on the 7B it's probably the mic I've earn't the most out of, it's not like I'd use a U67 (or probably even an MD441-U) live.. Even in the studio I was reluctant to bring out anything top shelf unless I knew they weren't going to spray beer or french kiss the mic.
Your wife knows how to put things into perspective..
Yes after 26 years of being around the world of audio she brings thing into perspective. The wake was for Brian, my old neighbor, drinking buddy, and cabinet builder for a very highend speaker company. The wake was at his favorite bar / music venue, the beer was free people were giving toasts and speakers and somebody had set wedges in front of a 58 like it was a hyper or super card, we both here that hollow echo of slight feedback look at each other I point to wedges and her head to FOH she nods there live I pull back all the aux sends on the X32 EQ the mic to make it less hollow dial in the gate and comp. like the board just wish it was more straight forward to somebody who isn’t familiar with the setup, I can look at an analog board and know everything in a second. In my FOH, wedge, studio, consultant and gearpimp lives I learned my tastes & aesthetics were just a guide, the smart clients took my advice seriously, but at the end of the day it was their call and their money so they were the decider. The exception was safety, I would always insist that safe practices were followed and would walk away if even a hint of safety issues would walk away no matter how much money was on the table. Eric’s first rule of buisness: the customer is always right, except if somebody could get hurt or killed.
|
|
|
Post by roundbadge on Sept 3, 2018 5:09:29 GMT -6
I’ve learned after many years recording to try anything and be willing to be surprised . Also gear can’t dictate anything. If the sm7 or laptop mic works better in the track than a 47 67 whatever,so be it
|
|
|
Post by jamiesego on Sept 18, 2018 17:21:52 GMT -6
Last tracking session I grabbed a Sterling ST55 for the bass cab to blend with a 421 and an RNDI. I think it's going to be the majority of the bass sound.
|
|
|
Post by jeremygillespie on Sept 19, 2018 21:20:14 GMT -6
I’ve learned after many years recording to try anything and be willing to be surprised . Also gear can’t dictate anything. If the sm7 or laptop mic works better in the track than a 47 67 whatever,so be it If a suggestion is made I always try it. I ask the same of the client. We usually wind up agreeing on what works best. I’ve been pleasantly surprised many times and even learned a thing or two. Imagine that!
|
|
|
Post by Ward on Sept 21, 2018 7:37:53 GMT -6
I’ve learned after many years recording to try anything and be willing to be surprised . Also gear can’t dictate anything. If the sm7 or laptop mic works better in the track than a 47 67 whatever,so be it If a suggestion is made I always try it. I ask the same of the client. We usually wind up agreeing on what works best. I’ve been pleasantly surprised many times and even learned a thing or two. Imagine that! How true it is! I learn every day. The day I think I know it all, is the day I'll stop learning and just whither away and become irrelevant.
|
|
ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 15,026
|
Post by ericn on Sept 21, 2018 8:17:51 GMT -6
I’ve learned after many years recording to try anything and be willing to be surprised . Also gear can’t dictate anything. If the sm7 or laptop mic works better in the track than a 47 67 whatever,so be it If a suggestion is made I always try it. I ask the same of the client. We usually wind up agreeing on what works best. I’ve been pleasantly surprised many times and even learned a thing or two. Imagine that! I’ll try anything, but the client has to be willing to try as well, I still learn something new on a regular basis, but your paying me for the fact that I have been doing this for over 35 years and picked up a thing or 2 along the way.
|
|
|
Post by johneppstein on Sept 21, 2018 13:40:27 GMT -6
This was long before smoke detectors were common. Too bad though. The Ampeg Gemini II was a better amp than the silly and expensive Plush amp I bought next. I bought it because it was huge, like a Marshall, I almost bought a used 1966 Super Reverb, but didn't know any better then. Plush looked like a copycat of Kustom amps with the faux leather padding, but from the little bit I know, I believe it was based on a Fender Showman. It was just too loud and clean for the basement I rehearsed in. Back then there was no thought of using a little amp. When you're 14, bigger is better ;-) When I started working for Don Wehr's Music City, Don had me look at a brand new Plush head that they had never been able to sell for at least 2 or 3 years (maybe more - this was late '80 or early '81) because it just didn't work right - it was weak and sounded bad for what was supposed to be a 100 watt head. I put in on the bench and found that it was only producing maybe 40 watts and had a lot of nasty parasitic oscillations on the waveform.
On opening it up I discovered that it was a direct copy of an AB763 Fender Twin Reverb even using Fender transformers, filter caps, revberb tank, and many other Fender parts - except for one thing. The bozo who built it (probably in his garage, by the look of it) had not bothered to follow the proper Fender layout. All the amp's problems were caused by bad layout, stray inductances and capacitance between adjacent components and wiring that should not have been adjacent, wrong angles between certain components, etc, etc. I told Don that yes,. I could fix it, but it would require stripping down the chassis, constructing a totally new circuit board with the proper geometry, and replacing most of the passive components that had their leads clipped to the wrong lengths. Total labor time estimated at 3 days, give or take. Don told me to put it in the basement and forget about it.
|
|