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Post by mhbunch on Aug 18, 2018 12:09:03 GMT -6
Two questions: At the red settings, how much compression would you expect it put on your average vocal? Shouldn't your settings be more dependent on how hot the output from the preamp is? My P1s have one knob. I like them with the pad on, but if I don't want to push them super hard I need a lot more gain on my WA-2A than 25. With those settings, at least with my 2a, I find it has the ideal output level to my converters. I adjust the output of the preamp til I’m hitting around 6-7db compression on loudest passes.
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Post by notneeson on Aug 18, 2018 13:08:16 GMT -6
Long time lurker, finally registered to join in the fun... I'm pretty sure this is incorrect, or I'm misinterpreting you guys. The gain pot on an La2a is after the detection and gain reduction circuit (acting more like make-up gain, but yes, technically it's an attenuator before the output amp). While the 1176 input is before the detection and gain reduction (acting like input gain, but really it's an input attenuator). The block diagrams from UA seem to agree... Obviously their functions are quite different, as the "gain" knob on the la2a does not affect the amount of compression/limiting, whereas the 1176 "input" knob certainly does. see page 12 media.uaudio.com/assetlibrary/l/a/la-2a_manual.pdfand see page 29 media.uaudio.com/assetlibrary/1/1/1176ln_manual.pdfOr perhaps this was a trap to lure me out of "lurk mode" and into registering! Thanks! Should have put a question mark at the end of my statement, did not mean it as dogma.
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Post by popmann on Aug 18, 2018 13:41:36 GMT -6
The original “one knob series” analog plug in.
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Post by lcr on Aug 18, 2018 14:03:10 GMT -6
Joe Barressi has mentioned in interviews smashing it hard with signal and using it as a narly dist box, the man does enjoy his dist.
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Post by damoongo on Aug 19, 2018 10:43:44 GMT -6
The old dude said it in the video supposedly, and I concur he is using the correct terminology of 'input' for the era in which it was designed and in which he worked. Dunno why the quote disappeared. I suppose that someone can call that "gain" knob whatever he wants, but it definitely comes after the detection and gain reduction circuit. And since that is the primary function of a compressor, I tend to consider it as an "output" control. As in: it controls the signal level after the signal processing has taken place, to feed the next piece in the chain. You know, like an output control.
But I realize the gain pot is before it's output amp, and one can definitely achieve nice variations in color by driving that amp harder etc, so in that sense, it is an input control - to it's own output amplifier.
EmRR, from my long time lurking I know that you have a deep technical knowledge and perhaps even specialize in equipment like this, so I certainly know that you understand how they work. (You could probably draw the schematic with your eyes closed!) I just thought that the thread was perhaps misleading to some, and by calling the La2a's gain control an "input", it might leave people believing it has some bearing on the function of the compression.
- Uh-oh. My 2nd post... Now I'm hooked. Thanks for welcoming me.
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Post by EmRR on Aug 19, 2018 12:19:30 GMT -6
The old dude said it in the video supposedly, and I concur he is using the correct terminology of 'input' for the era in which it was designed and in which he worked. Dunno why the quote disappeared. I suppose that someone can call that "gain" knob whatever he wants, but it definitely comes after the detection and gain reduction circuit. And since that is the primary function of a compressor, I tend to consider it as an "output" control. As in: it controls the signal level after the signal processing has taken place, to feed the next piece in the chain. You know, like an output control.
But I realize the gain pot is before it's output amp, and one can definitely achieve nice variations in color by driving that amp harder etc, so in that sense, it is an input control - to it's own output amplifier.
EmRR, from my long time lurking I know that you have a deep technical knowledge and perhaps even specialize in equipment like this, so I certainly know that you understand how they work. (You could probably draw the schematic with your eyes closed!) I just thought that the thread was perhaps misleading to some, and by calling the La2a's gain control an "input", it might leave people believing it has some bearing on the function of the compression.
- Uh-oh. My 2nd post... Now I'm hooked. Thanks for welcoming me.
....and.....welcome! If you study the knowledge and methodology of the ancient ones, they would all call that input. Across the board. Because we might call it something different today due to changing mindsets does not mean they are wrong. Anyway, it's all about the reference to the guy having a brain-fart; he didn't. The fact that the knob is before any active portion makes it 'input' in the language of old; the amount of fuzz you might get out of it, the way headroom is affected, is entirely due to it's position. If it were between some active stages, it would be considered 'interstage'. The LA-2A amp is effectively just an output stage, but there tended to be a distinction between power and small signal output stages as to whether a gain control might get referred to as output, usually only with power stages greater than 1W, and there'd usually be a separate input control before a small signal stage. I wouldn't call it after the detection circuit, it's practically in parallel. It IS in parallel with the peak reduction control if it's set to compress rather than limit. The GR cell is a passive device driven by a side chain amp that takes a different parallel fork in the road. The knobs could correctly be called 'amplifier input gain' and 'side chain input gain'. If it had an output attenuator after the amp, you'd definitely call that the 'output' and the gain the 'input'. It's a bit semantic.
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Post by damoongo on Aug 19, 2018 12:54:16 GMT -6
Thanks, EmRR
From the manual, p13:
"After the gain reduction circuit, the signal is sent through an Output Gain control and a two-stage output amplifier, followed by the output transformer."
But I agree, it's semantics. Lets call it a "post gain reduction, input attenuator to the unit's output amplifier". But that wouldn't look as cool on the front panel as "Gain"...
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Post by kilroyrock on Aug 24, 2018 6:52:00 GMT -6
I think i read that it the la2a was used as just a straight preamp, i believe rod stewart was one person who did it that way?
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Post by drbill on Aug 24, 2018 10:26:33 GMT -6
Yes. You can use the LA2a as a preamp. Or as a preamp / comp. Very sweet. Of course, if you need 48v, you'll have to provide that externally for the mic.
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Post by EmRR on Aug 24, 2018 11:11:45 GMT -6
I think i read that it the la2a was used as just a straight preamp, i believe rod stewart was one person who did it that way? Matching load to a mic, so it's an EQ too!
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 14,957
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Post by ericn on Aug 26, 2018 8:33:26 GMT -6
Yes. You can use the LA2a as a preamp. Or as a preamp / comp. Very sweet. Of course, if you need 48v, you'll have to provide that externally for the mic. Another reason everybody should have a nice little outboard phantom supply.
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Post by popmann on Aug 26, 2018 12:15:46 GMT -6
I've used the La3a....which from memory has more gain....as a preamp. it doesn't tend to have enough to be limiter AND preamp....maybe with a modern super high output tube mic it would. Actually--that sounds like a good experiment....I seem to remember my Innertube fave spit out nearly line level....
But, I just plugged the Royer into the La3a to cut a client track the other day. I do shit like that because I get bored. Did it sound better? I dunno. Sounded good.
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Post by drbill on Aug 26, 2018 15:26:02 GMT -6
RMS269 into ZOD Tube DI into LA2a = mic, pre, compression and a heavenly retro tubey sound.
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