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Post by yotonic on Aug 21, 2018 0:37:50 GMT -6
I bought one, and sent it back. Not a big fan of the sound, regardless of what chip set it uses.
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Post by M57 on Aug 21, 2018 4:12:36 GMT -6
I bought one, and sent it back. Not a big fan of the sound, regardless of what chip set it uses. Subjective or not, Can you describe what you don't like about the sound?
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Post by indiehouse on Aug 21, 2018 4:43:07 GMT -6
I bought one, and sent it back. Not a big fan of the sound, regardless of what chip set it uses. I assume you are referring to the Presonus Quantum and not the 828es, right?
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Post by indiehouse on Aug 23, 2018 11:21:09 GMT -6
I came across this from another site:
"It is a newer unit. I was curious, so I popped the lid and found that in fact it uses 3 four-channel ADCs, the AKM AK5574EN. This is a new 32 bit premium ADC capable of up to 786 kHz sampling. The specs say 121 dB dynamic range/SNR and 112 dB THD+Noise. In Channel Summing mode, it can achieve 127dB SNR. Interestingly, it also does DSD256. I wonder if this is a selectable output for DSD recording, or could be with firmware upgrade?
Aside from the outstanding AD and DA converters, the unit is controlled by a 32 bit, 456 Mhz ARM/DSP processor from Texas Instruments assisted by a 32 MB flash memory chip. It is a processing fiend, utilizing both an Xilink Spartan 6 Field Programable Gate Array (FPGA) with 1.2 million transistors, and an Altera FPGA to boot. In all, this seems to be a real quality audio powerhouse."
I picked up a used 828es at a pretty great price. I've been checking it out over the last couple of days. It's got a monitor controller built in. Plus midi i/o. Plus separate monitor outs. Plus headphone outs. You get a TON for your money. I'm thinking this paired with my 16a might be the ticket.
Still, I keep thinking to myself, you get a ton of features and great converter chips. What's the catch? So far, it's been pretty solid running over thunderbolt. I haven't hooked up the 16a via ethernet yet.
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Post by Johnkenn on Aug 23, 2018 13:21:08 GMT -6
I know...I keep thinking it CAN'T be as good as the Symphony...but I'm not finding that.
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Post by yotonic on Aug 23, 2018 23:39:03 GMT -6
I bought one, and sent it back. Not a big fan of the sound, regardless of what chip set it uses. I assume you are referring to the Presonus Quantum and not the 828es, right? Yes the Presonus Quantum was worse than any of the Motu or Focusrite interfaces I've tried. Very coarse, and narrow. I was really rooting for them with the simple work flow and low latency but the actual conversion was pretty bad (no offense to anyone here using it.)I think in that price range the Motu and Focusrite rigs are the best you can get soundwise. I have a couple of Saffires and they sound really nice, really close to the Symphony MKII maybe not quite as close as the Motu ES, but the Saffire is all Cirrus chips and it just sounds musical.(I posted a shootout against the Symphony MKII here someone did.)
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Post by BenjaminAshlin on Aug 24, 2018 0:00:09 GMT -6
I know...I keep thinking it CAN'T be as good as the Symphony...but I'm not finding that. Are you using it USB or Thunderbolt?
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Post by M57 on Sept 2, 2018 9:24:39 GMT -6
Just gave the mic pres a spin. Unimpressive - a bit thin. Not that I care because I may never use them. I'm definitely keeping the unit.
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Post by yotonic on Sept 4, 2018 19:54:30 GMT -6
I bit the bullet and picked up a Symphony MKII SE Mastering Edition. I'm finally happy....
Very musical for the singers out there, and very un-hyped and true for the Engineers out there.
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Post by Johnkenn on Sept 5, 2018 8:22:03 GMT -6
I bit the bullet and picked up a Symphony MKII SE Mastering Edition. I'm finally happy.... Very musical for the singers out there, and very un-hyped and true for the Engineers out there. Bummer. Would have loved to have given you a quote.
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Post by yotonic on Sept 5, 2018 10:09:40 GMT -6
I bit the bullet and picked up a Symphony MKII SE Mastering Edition. I'm finally happy.... Very musical for the singers out there, and very un-hyped and true for the Engineers out there. Bummer. Would have loved to have given you a quote. Of course I would have asked you for a quote! It popped up on Reverb used in the middle of the night from some place in NYC that reviews gear. I was going to buy your Symphony, this wound up being the same price and had that SE module already in it which was what I was after.
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Post by adrjork on Apr 24, 2019 20:09:13 GMT -6
Hi everybody, sorry for my intrusion, but I have a big doubt and you people can solve it!
I have to take a decision: buying a MOTU 8A or a RME Fireface UC (my budget is under 1500 euros, better if less). (I'll use the audio interface on OSX only for mixing purpose with a 5.1 Genelec system, so I'm interested only in outputs!)
MOTU 8A is a recent product and has the ES9016S DAC you mentioned in this topic, that seems to be impressive. On the other hand, RME UC is well known for the good quality of D/A conversion (RME mailed me saying that "there is no significant difference in terms of conversion quality" between UC and UCX, so I'd go for the cheaper UC) but it's really an old interface, and specs about dynamic range is very far from MOTU's Sabre32 Ultra specs (111dB vs 123dB!) Anyway, wide dynamic range is a value, but doesn't necessarly mean that outputs "sound" globally good! For example, on another forum someone noticed some discrete noise frequencies at around 75 kHz (who knows if caused by DAC itself or by other components in the interface or simply by the drivers on Windows 10...) Another point is right the drivers: MOTU seems to have had some issue with Windows 10, but I'm on Mac so I should go fine (right?) On RME side, drivers are bullet prof. So, what I'm searching for is an interface (for my budget) that not only has a good dynamic range, but also consistency of dynamic range over all frequency range, and uniformity in dynamic scale (i.e. "no steps") for my Genelec system. (A good friend of mine says that MOTU-Sabre sounds very good, but old RME sounds even more analytic!)
Then I'd like to know which one – between RME UC and MOTU-Sabre – has more consistency and uniformity in your opinion?
Thanks really a lot for your help.
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Post by stratboy on Apr 25, 2019 6:55:18 GMT -6
Hi everybody, sorry for my intrusion, but I have a big doubt and you people can solve it!
I have to take a decision: buying a MOTU 8A or a RME Fireface UC (my budget is under 1500 euros, better if less). (I'll use the audio interface on OSX only for mixing purpose with a 5.1 Genelec system, so I'm interested only in outputs!)
MOTU 8A is a recent product and has the ES9016S DAC you mentioned in this topic, that seems to be impressive. On the other hand, RME UC is well known for the good quality of D/A conversion (RME mailed me saying that "there is no significant difference in terms of conversion quality" between UC and UCX, so I'd go for the cheaper UC) but it's really an old interface, and specs about dynamic range is very far from MOTU's Sabre32 Ultra specs (111dB vs 123dB!) Anyway, wide dynamic range is a value, but doesn't necessarly mean that outputs "sound" globally good! For example, on another forum someone noticed some discrete noise frequencies at around 75 kHz (who knows if caused by DAC itself or by other components in the interface or simply by the drivers on Windows 10...) Another point is right the drivers: MOTU seems to have had some issue with Windows 10, but I'm on Mac so I should go fine (right?) On RME side, drivers are bullet prof. So, what I'm searching for is an interface (for my budget) that not only has a good dynamic range, but also consistency of dynamic range over all frequency range, and uniformity in dynamic scale (i.e. "no steps") for my Genelec system. (A good friend of mine says that MOTU-Sabre sounds very good, but old RME sounds even more analytic!)
Then I'd like to know which one – between RME UC and MOTU-Sabre – has more consistency and uniformity in your opinion?
Thanks really a lot for your help. I had a RME FF400 and the original ADI-2. I now have a MOTU 16a and 8a. I felt like it was a trade up, FWIW. I’ve gone through essentially three levels of conversion improvements since I built my studio in 2006, from Mbox Pro/ Ross Martin, to RME, to MOTU. The RME was good, but the newer MOTU stuff sounds better to my ears in my room with my monitors. With the MOTU and my Svartbox, I’ve stopped chasing the converter rabbit. They are way better than good enough for what I do. Other folks here who do awesome work have been very happy with the current MOTU stuff as well. YMMV, but I think you can be pretty confident if you choose MOTU.
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Post by adrjork on Apr 25, 2019 8:43:55 GMT -6
I had a RME FF400 and the original ADI-2. I now have a MOTU 16a and 8a. I felt like it was a trade up, FWIW. I’ve gone through essentially three levels of conversion improvements since I built my studio in 2006, from Mbox Pro/ Ross Martin, to RME, to MOTU. Thank you Stratboy for your reply! You are confirming my suspect: i.e. MOTU-Sabre is now an improvement over RME old stuff. For my needs (mixing with Genelec 2.1/5.1 system, and NO INS) I'd go for MOTU 8A or Ultralite-mk4 (both should have same ESS Sabre32 Ultra DAC).
BUT!... But the noise frequencies at around 75 kHz (noticed by more than one fellow) worried me a lot! (Have a look to THIS test.) More than this, many people have reported issues like playback glitches and artifacts (perhaps drivers' issues).
And what is worse is the reported common issue of the interface "disappearing" after an impredictable while (2 hours, 1 days, 1 week...): while you're normally working with your audio interface, your operative system suddenly loses your audio card, i.e. the card disappears from the list of available devices. It happened to me MANY times with an old Teac DAC linked to an Hackintosh (PC with OSX) via USB, and the only solution was rebooting everytime the DAC. (Someone suggests it could be not really a drivers issue, but an hardware compatibility issue, infact it's more frequent on PC or Hackintosh than on Mac machines.)
For these reasons I wonder if it's better to go for a less satisfying audio card (RME UC) that ensures great stability and reliability (even if less quality than Sabre).
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Post by jcoutu1 on Apr 25, 2019 9:28:15 GMT -6
I'm using the MOTU 24AI/24AO system and it's been solid. I'm running 10.9 in the studio with PT11. It always connects up without issue. It's been smooth sailing.
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Post by adrjork on Apr 25, 2019 11:08:16 GMT -6
I'm using the MOTU 24AI/24AO system and it's been solid. I'm running 10.9 in the studio with PT11. It always connects up without issue. It's been smooth sailing. Really thanks for your reply, jcoutu1. Anyway, your system is based on a "pure" Mac, I suppose. Probably many of the issues I listed above come from PC experiences. In my case, the "drop-out" phenomenon I experienced was perhaps related to that strage hybrid thing that is my Hackintosh (that "pretend" to be a Mac but it's actually a PC HW even with OSX running).
I'm really doubtful, because I'd like SO MUCH going for MOTU 8A or Ultralite-mk4, but RME UC seems to be so stable in any condition...
Anyway, between 8A and UL-mk4, which one do you recommend? (Consider I'm NOT interested into mic/line ins.)
Thanks really a lot.
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Post by stratboy on Apr 25, 2019 12:44:02 GMT -6
I’m same as Jesse: all mac. 2012 Mac mini. It’s been very solid. Sounds like you really want to go RME, so just do it. RME was very solid for me when I had it on the same 2012 mini and an older 2006 mini. If you are not all mac and worried, just get the RME. It will sound fine, I’m sure. As someone else said, relax and make music!
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 14,943
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Post by ericn on Apr 25, 2019 13:56:58 GMT -6
That’s the problem with Hackintosh, any problems and your machine is going to get all the blame and no support. RME’s drivers have been amongst some of the most bulletproof and their higher end boxes can be found in some of Europe’s most famous Classical venues as well as Shows like Blue Man Group.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Apr 25, 2019 15:17:21 GMT -6
I'm using the MOTU 24AI/24AO system and it's been solid. I'm running 10.9 in the studio with PT11. It always connects up without issue. It's been smooth sailing. Really thanks for your reply, jcoutu1. Anyway, your system is based on a "pure" Mac, I suppose. Probably many of the issues I listed above come from PC experiences. In my case, the "drop-out" phenomenon I experienced was perhaps related to that strage hybrid thing that is my Hackintosh (that "pretend" to be a Mac but it's actually a PC HW even with OSX running).
I'm really doubtful, because I'd like SO MUCH going for MOTU 8A or Ultralite-mk4, but RME UC seems to be so stable in any condition...
Anyway, between 8A and UL-mk4, which one do you recommend? (Consider I'm NOT interested into mic/line ins.)
Thanks really a lot.
DM my guy Eric Mitchell. He builds and sells hack systems to some big names. He could probably give you some interface advice. He's on the Facebook or www.ericmitchellaudio.com/
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Post by adrjork on Apr 26, 2019 10:23:48 GMT -6
I now have a MOTU 16a and 8a. [...] I’m same as Jesse: all mac. 2012 Mac mini. It’s been very solid. Question: 8A is connected via Thunderbolt or via USB?
That's interesting because the "disappearing" phenomenon has been noticed mainly on Ultralite-mk4 that's based on the same DAC, so the only difference is UL-mk4 is USB only!
While I can suppose that most of the Mac users connect 8A via Thunberbolt: and indeed hasn't been reported "drop down" phenomenon on 8A!
All this would confirm that the "drop down" phenomenon (that I can confirm it does exist, not only for MOTU) is related specifically to the USB-port (that's why it happens mainly on Windows machines that easily don't have Thunderbolt but only USB!)
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Post by stratboy on Apr 26, 2019 11:29:17 GMT -6
8a to 16a via Ethernet, 16a to mac via Thunderbolt.
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Post by adrjork on Apr 26, 2019 11:54:38 GMT -6
8a to 16a via Ethernet, 16a to mac via Thunderbolt. Yep... It's what I thought. Your system CAN'T be unstable I'd be curious to know how 8A works via USB3 on a PC...
(Anyway, thanks for your reply, stratboy.)
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Post by indiehouse on Apr 26, 2019 12:18:53 GMT -6
That’s the problem with Hackintosh, any problems and your machine is going to get all the blame and no support. RME’s drivers have been amongst some of the most bulletproof and their higher end boxes can be found in some of Europe’s most famous Classical venues as well as Shows like Blue Man Group. I built a Hackintosh a while back and that's exactly the issue I ran into. Makes troubleshooting a major pain. Cause you always have to factor that in and can never rule it out. I ran that Hackintosh for many years until it couldn't keep up anymore. Then I got a used Mac. I wouldn't build another Hackintosh. Not worth the trouble. You have to be super into that sort of thing and really know you're stuff. It just ended up eating up too much of my time. And I'm not that into building and troubleshooting computers.
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Post by adrjork on Apr 26, 2019 12:49:02 GMT -6
I wouldn't build another Hackintosh. Not worth the trouble. I know guys. The fact is that in my specific case the Hack was a "forced" choice because it's made primarly for Color Grading. It has 3 recent Nvidia cards into its stomach, and that would not be possible with a recent Mac. I must say that up to now I haven't had too many problems (but the "drop down" phenomenon, of course!) I don't know... perhaps RME could give me the same issue via USB! But at least RME is famous to have bulletproof drivers (and no drop down is noticed in forums, even with Windows.)
So... (believe me, I'm so UNhappy to discard Sabre solution... I'm still hoping that someone with my HW tell me that 8A works fine as well...)
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Post by stratboy on Apr 26, 2019 13:12:16 GMT -6
Look at the big picture: you have to have the Hack for your color-grading business. You know there are possible stability problems with USB. RME has the most stable drivers. Your trade off is: stability vs 2-3% gain (5% at most) in sonics. I’d take the stability, which means much more to your income, and move on.
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