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km84s
Jul 29, 2018 22:51:39 GMT -6
Post by Mister Chase on Jul 29, 2018 22:51:39 GMT -6
This snare shell mic'ing sounds pretty magical. I will try it sometime. Thanks!
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km84s
Jul 30, 2018 13:45:06 GMT -6
Post by Martin John Butler on Jul 30, 2018 13:45:06 GMT -6
I’d appreciate it if one of you guys would post a picture showing exactly where you place the “shell snare” mic.
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Post by the other mark williams on Jul 30, 2018 14:28:18 GMT -6
I’d appreciate it if one of you guys would post a picture showing exactly where you place the “shell snare” mic. I don't have an easily accessible pic where I am, Martin, (a hospital bed!) but as John said, it's 2-3 inches away from the shell. Avoid the drum ports (or you might pick up some swooshes). If you go higher up the drum (towards ceiling), you'll get more top head sound. If you go down (towards floor), you'll get more underside. Either way you go, you'll be micing the DRUM more than the drum HEAD. If the drum sounds like shit, you might be better off just micing the top and bottom heads, but if it's a good sounding drum, this method sounds more natural to my ear. Plus, I usually get plenty of snare head (top) in my OHs, anyway.
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km84s
Jul 30, 2018 14:37:52 GMT -6
Post by Martin John Butler on Jul 30, 2018 14:37:52 GMT -6
Thanks Mark.
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Post by matt on Jul 30, 2018 14:59:30 GMT -6
I’d appreciate it if one of you guys would post a picture showing exactly where you place the “shell snare” mic. Methinks they mean this:
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Post by spindrift on Jul 30, 2018 17:36:12 GMT -6
I’d appreciate it if one of you guys would post a picture showing exactly where you place the “shell snare” mic. Methinks they mean this: That pic is no good...that’s not a KM84!!!
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Post by rowmat on Jul 30, 2018 18:00:11 GMT -6
I’d appreciate it if one of you guys would post a picture showing exactly where you place the “shell snare” mic. Methinks they mean this: Looks like a Gefell UM70 fitted with a KK67/KK87 capsule?
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Post by rowmat on Jul 30, 2018 20:42:33 GMT -6
I purchased this boxed pair of near mint KM85's with the original accessories a few years ago for just over $1300 USD and a single near mint KM85 from the Netherlands for around $700 USD. All three have since been converted to KM84's.
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km84s
Jul 30, 2018 21:54:17 GMT -6
Post by Mister Chase on Jul 30, 2018 21:54:17 GMT -6
I’d appreciate it if one of you guys would post a picture showing exactly where you place the “shell snare” mic. I don't have an easily accessible pic where I am, Martin, (a hospital bed!) but as John said, it's 2-3 inches away from the shell. Avoid the drum ports (or you might pick up some swooshes). If you go higher up the drum (towards ceiling), you'll get more top head sound. If you go down (towards floor), you'll get more underside. Either way you go, you'll be micing the DRUM more than the drum HEAD. If the drum sounds like shit, you might be better off just micing the top and bottom heads, but if it's a good sounding drum, this method sounds more natural to my ear. Plus, I usually get plenty of snare head (top) in my OHs, anyway. Hope you get out of there(the hospital) soon.
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ericn
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km84s
Jul 31, 2018 9:33:12 GMT -6
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Post by ericn on Jul 31, 2018 9:33:12 GMT -6
I’d appreciate it if one of you guys would post a picture showing exactly where you place the “shell snare” mic. Methinks they mean this: View Attachment Is that a Gefell or a Novaton?
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ericn
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km84s
Jul 31, 2018 9:35:54 GMT -6
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Post by ericn on Jul 31, 2018 9:35:54 GMT -6
I’d appreciate it if one of you guys would post a picture showing exactly where you place the “shell snare” mic. I don't have an easily accessible pic where I am, Martin, (a hospital bed!) but as John said, it's 2-3 inches away from the shell. Avoid the drum ports (or you might pick up some swooshes). If you go higher up the drum (towards ceiling), you'll get more top head sound. If you go down (towards floor), you'll get more underside. Either way you go, you'll be micing the DRUM more than the drum HEAD. If the drum sounds like shit, you might be better off just micing the top and bottom heads, but if it's a good sounding drum, this method sounds more natural to my ear. Plus, I usually get plenty of snare head (top) in my OHs, anyway. Depending on the snare be ready to move it around, the vent can cause chugging or the worst case has a resonance at a peek in the freq response.
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km84s
Jul 31, 2018 10:57:01 GMT -6
ericn likes this
Post by matt on Jul 31, 2018 10:57:01 GMT -6
Is that a Gefell or a Novaton? Not sure. Unfortunately, it's not a picture of my stuff but was nicked from the Web in true 21st Century fashion. Google knows all, sees all.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2018 2:39:25 GMT -6
Mine arrived today, hope it's OK to post here longscale . Not tried them yet. I was told they weren't consecutive serial numbers, which was a little disappointing, although fine. But check them out. They aren't strictly consecutive, but... Haha. Quick question, they both look identical except for the capsules. One looks a little older and has the 84 and cardioid symbol on it. The other looks newer, is a little shorter, has nothing printed on it, and the surround is "flatter" at the end. Any ideas about this? Can post closer pics if needed, the one on the right has the latter capsule. Attachment DeletedGonna send them off to Andreas Grosser in Germany as soon as I have tested them, for a full service and matching of the guts, if needed. Will let him asses the capsules and see what he reckons. Apparently Thiersch can "re-skin" them to be matched too, for extra cost, although I am not exactly sure what this entails. Could also buy two new capsules from Neumann as a last resort, although very expensive! Right, gonna put them through the TG2 now!
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km84s
Aug 2, 2018 3:25:56 GMT -6
Post by jampa on Aug 2, 2018 3:25:56 GMT -6
It was me. I have the one in between.
Nah jokes.
Fire em up. c0rtland had a similar situation with the capsules a while back. (I didn't just remember that, I had to use the search!)
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Deleted
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km84s
Aug 2, 2018 3:47:39 GMT -6
Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2018 3:47:39 GMT -6
Haha. Cheers, yes, just did a test, one on top of the other in a Rycote INV7 into the TG2, 1200 ohm at 50dB gain on acoustic guitar, 12" or so back from 14th fret pointed 45 degrees toward sound hole. They sound GREAT but the one with what I assume to be the more modern/different/no print capsule has a higher output level by about 4dB, which is no small difference... Will definitely send them off to Andreas this week.
[EDIT] Got a link for that post about the capsules? Did try a search but couldn't find it.
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km84s
Aug 2, 2018 7:56:55 GMT -6
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Post by stormymondays on Aug 2, 2018 7:56:55 GMT -6
I think mine have a 2-3 dB difference but the serial numbers are very different.
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km84s
Aug 2, 2018 12:33:33 GMT -6
EmRR likes this
Post by spindrift on Aug 2, 2018 12:33:33 GMT -6
They look great! How likely is a consecutive serial # going to match? It's just as likely as mic in the same range +/- 10 will match most closely too.
Don't bother with a "re-skin" when you can buy brand-spankin' new capsules from Neumann. The capsule is not an item where should be looking to save a few Euros....
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2018 13:07:48 GMT -6
Apparently a reskin will be €125 if needed, whereas the new capsules are €540 and as I'll probably need two that's a huge difference. But yeah am still considering buying new. Didn't Mr. Thiersch work for Neumann for 40 years or something? What is re-skinning anyway?
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ericn
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km84s
Aug 2, 2018 14:40:29 GMT -6
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Post by ericn on Aug 2, 2018 14:40:29 GMT -6
Apparently a reskin will be €125 if needed, whereas the new capsules are €540 and as I'll probably need two that's a huge difference. But yeah am still considering buying new. Didn't Mr. Thiersch work for Neumann for 40 years or something? What is re-skinning anyway? New diaghpram material.
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Deleted
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km84s
Aug 2, 2018 15:01:24 GMT -6
Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2018 15:01:24 GMT -6
Cheers Eric. Right, but problem is I'm worried it won't be "authentic" or whatever to the original sound. Will it be the same material? I hear the modern Thiersch capsules for the LDCs aren't as good or something, because they use a different material now? Mylar vs. PVC or something? I dunno. I'm not really clued up on any of this mic stuff. I just want my new pair to be matched as close as possible in frequency response and volume so I can do stuff like X/Y or ORTF without having to worry about it, and sound like they should. Currently they are about 4dB apart. If this will require spending about another £1k on top of the mics for two new capsules, then it will be an expensive investment!
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km84s
Aug 2, 2018 15:18:59 GMT -6
Post by Mister Chase on Aug 2, 2018 15:18:59 GMT -6
Apparently a reskin will be €125 if needed, whereas the new capsules are €540 and as I'll probably need two that's a huge difference. But yeah am still considering buying new. Didn't Mr. Thiersch work for Neumann for 40 years or something? What is re-skinning anyway? All depends on your budget. I bet the new caps are nice, but I would reskin and save as much of the old capsule material as I can. This is why people rewind pickups around those old magnets at Fender. They sound different, even with new stock wire on them. Buy a pair of capsules if you can find some old bodies then you'll have two pair. Just my .02c
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km84s
Aug 2, 2018 15:24:29 GMT -6
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Post by EmRR on Aug 2, 2018 15:24:29 GMT -6
Lots of commentary out there about it being technically impossible for re-skins to be as good as new manufacture. I wouldn’t reskin anything that has a current new exact replacement.
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km84s
Aug 2, 2018 16:10:12 GMT -6
Post by Mister Chase on Aug 2, 2018 16:10:12 GMT -6
Lots of commentary out there about it being technically impossible for re-skins to be as good as new manufacture. I wouldn’t reskin anything that has a current new exact replacement. As well as talk that current manufacture of capsules isn't the same as old, nor as consistent...
I think either way, they will be different. If there's anything I've learned about metallurgy and processes from reverse engineering for guitar parts, it's that nothing can be made exact over a long enough period of time. Everything changes. YMMV.
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km84s
Aug 2, 2018 16:16:11 GMT -6
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Post by EmRR on Aug 2, 2018 16:16:11 GMT -6
Lots of commentary out there about it being technically impossible for re-skins to be as good as new manufacture. I wouldn’t reskin anything that has a current new exact replacement. As well as talk that current manufacture of capsules isn't the same as old, nor as consistent...
I think either way, they will be different. If there's anything I've learned about metallurgy and processes from reverse engineering for guitar parts, it's that nothing can be made exact over a long enough period of time. Everything changes. YMMV.
Apples to oranges. Exactly no one is saying a re-skin equals or beats a real new....anything.
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km84s
Aug 2, 2018 16:31:32 GMT -6
Post by Mister Chase on Aug 2, 2018 16:31:32 GMT -6
As well as talk that current manufacture of capsules isn't the same as old, nor as consistent...
I think either way, they will be different. If there's anything I've learned about metallurgy and processes from reverse engineering for guitar parts, it's that nothing can be made exact over a long enough period of time. Everything changes. YMMV.
Apples to oranges. Exactly no one is saying a re-skin equals or beats a real new....anything.
While I can see the apples to oranges comment, we are still talking manufacturing and materials. Yes there are differences, they are different products, but we are on the same mudball with the same changes over time across industries.
No one is saying that? Actually, some have claimed that. The fact is that there is contention over this very point about reskinning (old) caps vs new according to my searches.
And then we must define "equals" or "beats"
Again, YMMV.
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