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km84s
Jul 23, 2018 7:41:55 GMT -6
bradd likes this
Post by svart on Jul 23, 2018 7:41:55 GMT -6
I'm starting to wonder if I should get a pair of MC930 to try out..
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km84s
Jul 23, 2018 8:44:28 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by matt@IAA on Jul 23, 2018 8:44:28 GMT -6
You can get b-stock MC930 pairs for $750.
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km84s
Jul 23, 2018 8:45:06 GMT -6
Post by drbill on Jul 23, 2018 8:45:06 GMT -6
Beyers didn't work for me when I tried em. Didn't really care for them when compared to 84's. As they say, YMMV.
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km84s
Jul 23, 2018 9:03:16 GMT -6
Post by mcirish on Jul 23, 2018 9:03:16 GMT -6
Not to go too far off topic, but I've been very curious about the Beesneez Lulu SDC as a possible sub for the KM84 (I don't own). They are supposed to be in the same vein as the KM84. I already have a pair of Oktava MC012 but I'm still tempted. Why? I have a Miktek CV4 that I bought second hand. I absolutely hated the hyped hi end on that mic. I almost sold it but decided to try a different capsule. I picked up a Beesneez K7 capsule and installed it. Night and day. Literally. This mic has the smoothest hi end I've ever heard on a LDC mic. Maybe it was a fluke, but that got me wondering about the rest of the Beesneez mics. They seem to fly under the radar.
Anyone have experience with the Lulu?
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km84s
Jul 23, 2018 9:10:03 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by matt@IAA on Jul 23, 2018 9:10:03 GMT -6
The other one that gets thrown out are the 3U warbler 127 SDC. The cardioid flat capsule is voiced very similarly to the 84. Somewhere I’ve seen a frequency response comparison between it, the 84 and 184.
I posted some samples comparing the two somewhere here a while back. I have four, personally, and they are probably my favorite mics all around.
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km84s
Jul 23, 2018 9:11:34 GMT -6
Post by Martin John Butler on Jul 23, 2018 9:11:34 GMT -6
I do. There was a Soyuz shootout at a nice studio in Brooklyn last summer. They had their 0-11 (tube) and 0-13 (FET) SDC's, and the Beezneez Lulu, as well as a U67, U87 and the 0-17 and 0-19.
There were around 20 audio engineers and musicians there and we listened blind. Every single person there chose the 0-13 for acoustic guitar and piano over the other SDC's. The Beeznees was interesting, super highly colored, very dark. If you wanted that exact sound it was fantastic, but for general uses the Soyuz was so far ahead, it was no contest.
I could imagine the Lulu on a Nick Cave album, maybe.
Johnken has a Soyuz 0-13, he uses it for some of his tracks.
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 14,919 
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Post by ericn on Jul 23, 2018 9:12:18 GMT -6
Beyers didn't work for me when I tried em. Didn't really care for them when compared to 84's. As they say, YMMV. Yeah The Beyers have a tone you either fall in love with or they just irk you, but they are as close to the KM84 sound you can get for less than $1K for a pair. I however am the weird guy who says their are so many different great SDC’s out their that fly under the radar ( a few live under my RADAR V) that I say dare to be different find your own tone! |
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km84s
Jul 23, 2018 9:14:16 GMT -6
Post by Blackdawg on Jul 23, 2018 9:14:16 GMT -6
I'll take some DPA4011a's any day. DPA mics to me have the BEST off axis sound out there. 4011s or 4006s would be my desert island choice.
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km84s
Jul 23, 2018 9:15:57 GMT -6
Post by notneeson on Jul 23, 2018 9:15:57 GMT -6
Not to go too far off topic, but I've been very curious about the Beesneez Lulu SDC as a possible sub for the KM84 (I don't own). They are supposed to be in the same vein as the KM84. I already have a pair of Oktava MC012 but I'm still tempted. Why? I have a Miktek CV4 that I bought second hand. I absolutely hated the hyped hi end on that mic. I almost sold it but decided to try a different capsule. I picked up a Beesneez K7 capsule and installed it. Night and day. Literally. This mic has the smoothest hi end I've ever heard on a LDC mic. Maybe it was a fluke, but that got me wondering about the rest of the Beesneez mics. They seem to fly under the radar. Anyone have experience with the Lulu? I used Lulu Fets on a session and have a good general impression of them but no real details to offer, I was moving fast getting basics for 5 songs in one day. I know I used one on snare under that day but the rest is foggy. They have a tube SDC coming out that would be cool to hear too. |
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km84s
Jul 23, 2018 9:58:52 GMT -6
Post by jcoutu1 on Jul 23, 2018 9:58:52 GMT -6
Not to go too far off topic, but I've been very curious about the Beesneez Lulu SDC as a possible sub for the KM84 (I don't own). They are supposed to be in the same vein as the KM84. I already have a pair of Oktava MC012 but I'm still tempted. Why? I have a Miktek CV4 that I bought second hand. I absolutely hated the hyped hi end on that mic. I almost sold it but decided to try a different capsule. I picked up a Beesneez K7 capsule and installed it. Night and day. Literally. This mic has the smoothest hi end I've ever heard on a LDC mic. Maybe it was a fluke, but that got me wondering about the rest of the Beesneez mics. They seem to fly under the radar. Anyone have experience with the Lulu? I have a Lulu pair and like them. Haven't compared to KM84's, but seemed to have more weight than the 184's when I did a quick shootout on overheads. |
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km84s
Jul 23, 2018 10:17:31 GMT -6
Post by adamjbrass on Jul 23, 2018 10:17:31 GMT -6
I had a pair of vintage KM84i in my studio for a while. A tech friend loaned them to me. They were the darkest, most non-sibilant SDC in my studio. When you put them on overheads they just sounded right
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km84s
Jul 23, 2018 10:39:03 GMT -6
Post by svart on Jul 23, 2018 10:39:03 GMT -6
You can get b-stock MC930 pairs for $750. I saw those on Ebay, they're the ones I was thinking of. I like my KM184 on overheads, although I tend to use my Gefell M930's (No relation to the M C930..) but they're LDC and tend to pick up a lot more midrange that I end up cutting. Both the M930 and KM184 need some brightness removed with some LPF or high shelf to match pro mixed tracks, so I wonder if the M C930 would work better here instead. |
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km84s
Jul 23, 2018 11:51:00 GMT -6
Post by Tbone81 on Jul 23, 2018 11:51:00 GMT -6
You can get b-stock MC930 pairs for $750. I saw those on Ebay, they're the ones I was thinking of. I like my KM184 on overheads, although I tend to use my Gefell M930's (No relation to the M C930..) but they're LDC and tend to pick up a lot more midrange that I end up cutting. Both the M930 and KM184 need some brightness removed with some LPF or high shelf to match pro mixed tracks, so I wonder if the M C930 would work better here instead. Can't compare to your current mics but the mc930's are bright mics, but not what I would called hyped or shrill. It's kind of an upper mid/presence bump. They can work well on OH but wont due overly bright cymbals any favors. I prefer ribbons on OH so my mc930's get more ride/hh/room mic duties on drums. Interested to hear what you think of them compared to your current setup if you end up with a pair. |
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Post by svart on Jul 23, 2018 11:54:34 GMT -6
I saw those on Ebay, they're the ones I was thinking of. I like my KM184 on overheads, although I tend to use my Gefell M930's (No relation to the M C930..) but they're LDC and tend to pick up a lot more midrange that I end up cutting. Both the M930 and KM184 need some brightness removed with some LPF or high shelf to match pro mixed tracks, so I wonder if the M C930 would work better here instead. Can't compare to your current mics but the mc930's are bright mics, but not what I would called hyped or shrill. It's kind of an upper mid/presence bump. They can work well on OH but wont due overly bright cymbals any favors. I prefer ribbons on OH so my mc930's get more ride/hh/room mic duties on drums. Interested to hear what you think of them compared to your current setup if you end up with a pair. From all the tracks I've listened to, it seems the KM184 is still more bright than the MC930. Since I have KM184's, if I can get the same general tone, but with less top, I'd be happy with that. I think ribbons of just about any type are too dark for overheads for my tastes, so I'd like to split the difference. |
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km84s
Jul 23, 2018 15:02:59 GMT -6
Post by bradd on Jul 23, 2018 15:02:59 GMT -6
KM184s are definitely brighter than MC930s. MC930s have a pretty big low end for a SDC. I don't find them to be noticeably brighter than my KM84s.
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km84s
Jul 23, 2018 15:04:42 GMT -6
ericn likes this
Post by bradd on Jul 23, 2018 15:04:42 GMT -6
By the way, Full Compass is the way to go for all things Beyer. Call them, don't order online.
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km84s
Jul 25, 2018 13:44:51 GMT -6
Post by johneppstein on Jul 25, 2018 13:44:51 GMT -6
The other one that gets thrown out are the 3U warbler 127 SDC. The cardioid flat capsule is voiced very similarly to the 84. Somewhere I’ve seen a frequency response comparison between it, the 84 and 184. I posted some samples comparing the two somewhere here a while back. I have four, personally, and they are probably my favorite mics all around. The great thing about the 84 is the off-axis response. I've never seen a frequency chart that really showed that except in the roughest possible way. |
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km84s
Jul 25, 2018 13:49:19 GMT -6
ericn likes this
Post by johneppstein on Jul 25, 2018 13:49:19 GMT -6
KM184s are definitely brighter than MC930s. MC930s have a pretty big low end for a SDC. I don't find them to be noticeably brighter than my KM84s. What's the off-axis like? |
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km84s
Jul 25, 2018 14:01:58 GMT -6
ericn likes this
Post by Martin John Butler on Jul 25, 2018 14:01:58 GMT -6
Yep. 84's are kinda plug and play, they just sound right instantly.
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Post by Blackdawg on Jul 25, 2018 15:42:13 GMT -6
Dumb question (from a dumb guy) that I'm sure has been asked many, many times... why is it so hard to clone the 84? The circuit looks pretty simple and is available online, the transformers have been cloned and there isn't anything particularly special about the body (in that it's not protected like the 67 headbasket) just curious... some are close and some are way off - why?! Man Neumann are going to sell a bunch if they ever do a re-release (which I know has been rumored) I believe its due to the capsule construction. As is the reason most modern releases of an old model never sound as good. Different capsule manufacturing. |
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Deleted
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km84s
Jul 25, 2018 15:50:26 GMT -6
svart likes this
Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2018 15:50:26 GMT -6
Ha. I never really looked into the mc930 mics much. I did a search and a GS thread came up where someone put blind km84 and mc930 tracks up for people to compare. As usual, people picked the nicer of the two tracks as the km84.. But it turned out the most favorite mic before the reveal was actually the mc930.. And then after the reveal everyone scrambling to save face and repick the km84 after "listening better".. Lol
Just like the ART vs. GR thread, it has to be one the best threads of all time.! Hilarity personified.!
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Post by svart on Jul 25, 2018 17:47:22 GMT -6
Ha. I never really looked into the mc930 mics much. I did a search and a GS thread came up where someone put blind km84 and mc930 tracks up for people to compare. As usual, people picked the nicer of the two tracks as the km84.. But it turned out the most favorite mic before the reveal was actually the mc930.. And then after the reveal everyone scrambling to save face and repick the km84 after "listening better".. Lol
Just like the ART vs. GR thread, it has to be one the best threads of all time.! Hilarity personified.!
There's been a few threads there with the same setup and punchline.. Someone posts blind files of a "legendary" piece of gear, and of something else. All the armchair pros make bold statements of assurances of which one is which, the know-it-alls preach absolutes, and the rest suck up to the first two and squabble amongst themselves for rank in the GS hierarchy.. And the reveal comes.. Mayhem and backtracking abound for 2-3 pages.. "I was listening on my phone when I said I knew without a doubt which one was which because I've heard the sonic signature of atoms through the gold connections on that piece of gear when I saw a YouTube advertisement for it once, but now that I listen to it in the studio, it's clear that I really knew which one was which, but wasn't really sure, so I just said the other one to be ironic.". -GS member Or something equally horseshit but trying to save face in the eyes of indifferent pros surfing their phone while the assistants set up mics and iron fisted admins taking a break from banning folks for having personal opinions on things. |
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km84s
Jul 25, 2018 20:27:59 GMT -6
svart likes this
Post by Tbone81 on Jul 25, 2018 20:27:59 GMT -6
Just like the ART vs. GR thread, it has to be one the best threads of all time.! Hilarity personified.!
There's been a few threads there with the same setup and punchline.. Someone posts blind files of a "legendary" piece of gear, and of something else. All the armchair pros make bold statements of assurances of which one is which, the know-it-alls preach absolutes, and the rest suck up to the first two and squabble amongst themselves for rank in the GS hierarchy.. And the reveal comes.. Mayhem and backtracking abound for 2-3 pages.. "I was listening on my phone when I said I knew without a doubt which one was which because I've heard the sonic signature of atoms through the gold connections on that piece of gear when I saw a YouTube advertisement for it once, but now that I listen to it in the studio, it's clear that I really knew which one was which, but wasn't really sure, so I just said the other one to be ironic.". -GS member Or something equally horseshit but trying to save face in the eyes of indifferent pros surfing their phone while the assistants set up mics and iron fisted admins taking a break from banning folks for having personal opinions on things. My favorite is: "Sure I said X sounds better than Y, but if you started stacking tracks through X then obviously Y would be better". |
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Post by Mister Chase on Jul 25, 2018 20:47:55 GMT -6
Dumb question (from a dumb guy) that I'm sure has been asked many, many times... why is it so hard to clone the 84? The circuit looks pretty simple and is available online, the transformers have been cloned and there isn't anything particularly special about the body (in that it's not protected like the 67 headbasket) just curious... some are close and some are way off - why?! Man Neumann are going to sell a bunch if they ever do a re-release (which I know has been rumored) I believe its due to the capsule construction. As is the reason most modern releases of an old model never sound as good. Different capsule manufacturing. I think so, too. Capsule making is such a fine art down to the raw materials. The capsule is just so important. Paramount I suppose. |
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 14,919
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Post by ericn on Jul 25, 2018 21:17:12 GMT -6
Dumb question (from a dumb guy) that I'm sure has been asked many, many times... why is it so hard to clone the 84? The circuit looks pretty simple and is available online, the transformers have been cloned and there isn't anything particularly special about the body (in that it's not protected like the 67 headbasket) just curious... some are close and some are way off - why?! Man Neumann are going to sell a bunch if they ever do a re-release (which I know has been rumored) I believe its due to the capsule construction. As is the reason most modern releases of an old model never sound as good. Different capsule manufacturing. All about the capsule and slightly the transformer, you can still get the capsule as a replacement part. |
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