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Post by din on Sept 17, 2018 6:55:53 GMT -6
I'm using a the MOTU 16A with the 828ES and I really like it. I got the 16A and 828es each when they first came out and did initially have a lot of trouble with the 16A. It got more stable as the drivers improved and I've been using it without issue for over a year now.
Pros: The main one: the routing/monitoring flexibility is really fantastic. Being able to duplicate an incoming signal with no latency is essential. I could never go back to monitoring live takes post-DAW. It really makes monitoring easier for the musicians as well. AD/DA conversion sounds great to me. (I had an RME ADI-8 before this and a DIGI002 before that.) The 828ES doubles as a great monitor controller and simply connects to the 16A via a single ethernet cable, giving you 24 channels of conversion. The software mixer has a lot of cool features and allows one to monitor pre or post effects (so you can add some reverb in the singers headphones but still record it dry, for example. That adds a tiny latency to the singer's cans, though, I think).
Cons: The routing software is a fucking nightmare. It's very powerful and flexible BUT the UI is almost counter-intuitive. Once you get the hang of it, make notes to yourself because you will forget after so many months and then when you want to redo your patchbay or whatever you'll be back at square one! The updates are a pain in the ass. Maybe due to the way I have 2 devices connected, but I can't just click update. I have to disconnect the devices from each other and drag an actual ethernet cable from my router all the way to the boxes to update them. Updating via USB never seems to work--it just hangs in update mode. (it did work once or twice oddly enough.)
Other thoughts: 16A has no volume knob! So keep that in mind if that's gonna be your sole converter. I think the conversion on the 16A is a little better than the 828ES. Though I haven't done scientific tests, that's the general impression I'm left with after using both together for the last 9 months or so.
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Post by LesC on Sept 17, 2018 7:58:33 GMT -6
I'm using a the MOTU 16A with the 828ES and I really like it. I got the 16A and 828es each when they first came out and did initially have a lot of trouble with the 16A. It got more stable as the drivers improved and I've been using it without issue for over a year now. Pros: The main one: the routing/monitoring flexibility is really fantastic. Being able to duplicate an incoming signal with no latency is essential. I could never go back to monitoring live takes post-DAW. It really makes monitoring easier for the musicians as well. AD/DA conversion sounds great to me. (I had an RME ADI-8 before this and a DIGI002 before that.) The 828ES doubles as a great monitor controller and simply connects to the 16A via a single ethernet cable, giving you 24 channels of conversion. The software mixer has a lot of cool features and allows one to monitor pre or post effects (so you can add some reverb in the singers headphones but still record it dry, for example. That adds a tiny latency to the singer's cans, though, I think). Cons: The routing software is a fucking nightmare. It's very powerful and flexible BUT the UI is almost counter-intuitive. Once you get the hang of it, make notes to yourself because you will forget after so many months and then when you want to redo your patchbay or whatever you'll be back at square one! The updates are a pain in the ass. Maybe due to the way I have 2 devices connected, but I can't just click update. I have to disconnect the devices from each other and drag an actual ethernet cable from my router all the way to the boxes to update them. Updating via USB never seems to work--it just hangs in update mode. (it did work once or twice oddly enough.) Other thoughts: 16A has no volume knob! So keep that in mind if that's gonna be your sole converter. I think the conversion on the 16A is a little better than the 828ES. Though I haven't done scientific tests, that's the general impression I'm left with after using both together for the last 9 months or so. Thank you for the interesting perspective! Are you using Mac or PC, and TB or USB?
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Post by michaelcleary on Sept 17, 2018 8:18:13 GMT -6
I'm using a the MOTU 16A with the 828ES and I really like it. I got the 16A and 828es each when they first came out and did initially have a lot of trouble with the 16A. It got more stable as the drivers improved and I've been using it without issue for over a year now. Pros: The main one: the routing/monitoring flexibility is really fantastic. Being able to duplicate an incoming signal with no latency is essential. I could never go back to monitoring live takes post-DAW. It really makes monitoring easier for the musicians as well. AD/DA conversion sounds great to me. (I had an RME ADI-8 before this and a DIGI002 before that.) The 828ES doubles as a great monitor controller and simply connects to the 16A via a single ethernet cable, giving you 24 channels of conversion. The software mixer has a lot of cool features and allows one to monitor pre or post effects (so you can add some reverb in the singers headphones but still record it dry, for example. That adds a tiny latency to the singer's cans, though, I think). Cons: The routing software is a fucking nightmare. It's very powerful and flexible BUT the UI is almost counter-intuitive. Once you get the hang of it, make notes to yourself because you will forget after so many months and then when you want to redo your patchbay or whatever you'll be back at square one! The updates are a pain in the ass. Maybe due to the way I have 2 devices connected, but I can't just click update. I have to disconnect the devices from each other and drag an actual ethernet cable from my router all the way to the boxes to update them. Updating via USB never seems to work--it just hangs in update mode. (it did work once or twice oddly enough.) Other thoughts: 16A has no volume knob! So keep that in mind if that's gonna be your sole converter. I think the conversion on the 16A is a little better than the 828ES. Though I haven't done scientific tests, that's the general impression I'm left with after using both together for the last 9 months or so. 16a has no volume knob but there is digital gain for each channel. this bit me when one of my inputs was very low and took me a while to find the digital gain to bring it back to unity.
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Post by matt@IAA on Sept 17, 2018 8:18:44 GMT -6
For what it’s worth, the instructions for firmware updates specifically say not to do it via USB. It is a pain though, I agree.
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Post by keymod on Sept 19, 2018 3:31:26 GMT -6
Looking for a recommendation for a proper Thunderbolt Cable that can be used with the 16A, about ten feet in length.
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Post by indiehouse on Sept 19, 2018 4:54:40 GMT -6
Looking for a recommendation for a proper Thunderbolt Cable that can be used with the 16A, about ten feet in length. Check out OWC.
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Post by mulmany on Sept 19, 2018 5:00:52 GMT -6
Looking for a recommendation for a proper Thunderbolt Cable that can be used with the 16A, about ten feet in length. Check out OWC. FYI, I had issues with my 16a and a owc tBolt cable. It could have been an issue on my Mac, but it was frustrating.
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Post by indiehouse on Sept 19, 2018 5:30:01 GMT -6
FYI, I had issues with my 16a and a owc tBolt cable. It could have been an issue on my Mac, but it was frustrating. Right on. Hard to say. I’ve got a Motu 16a/828ES, UAD Satellite and TB monitor connected with Apple and OWC TB cables with zero problems. I’ve always found OWC easy to deal with, but it’s been a few years.
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Post by mulmany on Sept 20, 2018 12:28:19 GMT -6
Make me think I should try the Owc cable with my new machine.
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Post by din on Sept 21, 2018 8:31:48 GMT -6
I'm using a the MOTU 16A with the 828ES and I really like it. I got the 16A and 828es each when they first came out and did initially have a lot of trouble with the 16A. It got more stable as the drivers improved and I've been using it without issue for over a year now. Pros: The main one: the routing/monitoring flexibility is really fantastic. Being able to duplicate an incoming signal with no latency is essential. I could never go back to monitoring live takes post-DAW. It really makes monitoring easier for the musicians as well. AD/DA conversion sounds great to me. (I had an RME ADI-8 before this and a DIGI002 before that.) The 828ES doubles as a great monitor controller and simply connects to the 16A via a single ethernet cable, giving you 24 channels of conversion. The software mixer has a lot of cool features and allows one to monitor pre or post effects (so you can add some reverb in the singers headphones but still record it dry, for example. That adds a tiny latency to the singer's cans, though, I think). Cons: The routing software is a fucking nightmare. It's very powerful and flexible BUT the UI is almost counter-intuitive. Once you get the hang of it, make notes to yourself because you will forget after so many months and then when you want to redo your patchbay or whatever you'll be back at square one! The updates are a pain in the ass. Maybe due to the way I have 2 devices connected, but I can't just click update. I have to disconnect the devices from each other and drag an actual ethernet cable from my router all the way to the boxes to update them. Updating via USB never seems to work--it just hangs in update mode. (it did work once or twice oddly enough.) Other thoughts: 16A has no volume knob! So keep that in mind if that's gonna be your sole converter. I think the conversion on the 16A is a little better than the 828ES. Though I haven't done scientific tests, that's the general impression I'm left with after using both together for the last 9 months or so. Thank you for the interesting perspective! Are you using Mac or PC, and TB or USB? I'm on PC via USB.
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Post by LesC on Sept 21, 2018 14:56:50 GMT -6
Thank you for the interesting perspective! Are you using Mac or PC, and TB or USB? I'm on PC via USB. The MOTU 828es has the closest feature set to what I need, I was just worried about the PC/USB problems I've been reading about, but your experience over the last year is encouraging. As for the routing software, I love RME's TotalMixFX, so I'm hoping I can get used to the MOTU equivalent fairly quickly. Thanks again!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2018 16:53:44 GMT -6
Thought I might as well post this... I used my MOTU 1248 on Mac (over USB and TB adapter), didn't have a single issue with it.. Pffff..!
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Post by yotonic on Sept 21, 2018 19:29:19 GMT -6
Looking for a recommendation for a proper Thunderbolt Cable that can be used with the 16A, about ten feet in length. Ten feet in length is going to cut down on data transmission speed. That's why they are short.
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Post by Quint on Sept 21, 2018 21:30:18 GMT -6
I would not take his experience with Motu as true for all Windows users. I ran my 16a on Windows when I first got it without a single issue. There are lots of others that use Windows without problems. I would try it from a shop with a good return policy and test on your CPU. It's not CPU related, I've tested it on an ASUS ROG (I7 4810MQ) another machine with an I7 5960X and another with an E5 2697V4. The machine I'm currently using isn't the machine I used when I first had issues..
The only consistancy is I'm using USB and it's the same MOTU 1248 unit. Motu's reputation isn't built upon decent Windows drivers, there were a LOT of issues with older products too.. It would be interesting to see how it runs over Thunderbolt, although it's a lot of time and some expensive to find out on my side.
The MOTU is a good sounding interface although nowadays many are.. Amazing price for the amount of I/O, flexbility and AVB but if you don't need much of those I'd still look somewhere else personally..
We're the issues you were having with drivers over TB or USB? I'm also on Windows/PC and, we're I going to get a Motu 16a, I would want to hook it up via TB. I've been trying to find user feedback on the 16a paired with Windows and TB.
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Post by matt@IAA on Sept 21, 2018 21:38:46 GMT -6
I’ve used my 1248 on three different windows machines. One of which was my wife’s laptop to do a spur of the moment recording of a friend’s piano composition. I’ve never had any problems whatsoever with drivers or clicks or noise or whatever. AVB has been rock solid, adding the 16A was a breeze. I really am left wondering what other stuff folks have installed on their computers that make the drivers so flaky.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2018 21:39:24 GMT -6
It's not CPU related, I've tested it on an ASUS ROG (I7 4810MQ) another machine with an I7 5960X and another with an E5 2697V4. The machine I'm currently using isn't the machine I used when I first had issues..
The only consistancy is I'm using USB and it's the same MOTU 1248 unit. Motu's reputation isn't built upon decent Windows drivers, there were a LOT of issues with older products too.. It would be interesting to see how it runs over Thunderbolt, although it's a lot of time and some expensive to find out on my side.
The MOTU is a good sounding interface although nowadays many are.. Amazing price for the amount of I/O, flexbility and AVB but if you don't need much of those I'd still look somewhere else personally..
We're the issues you were having with drivers over TB or USB? I'm also on Windows/PC and, we're I going to get a Motu 16a, I would want to hook it up via TB. USB and W8..
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Post by Quint on Sept 21, 2018 21:43:17 GMT -6
I’ve used my 1248 on three different windows machines. One of which was my wife’s laptop to do a spur of the moment recording of a friend’s piano composition. I’ve never had any problems whatsoever with drivers or clicks or noise or whatever. AVB has been rock solid, adding the 16A was a breeze. I really am left wondering what other stuff folks have installed on their computers that make the drivers so flaky. Windows 10? TB or USB?
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Post by matt@IAA on Sept 21, 2018 21:51:03 GMT -6
My computer used windows 7 then 10 and back to 7 and ran the 1248 the whole time fine. The temporary one I have set up right now is a $120 junker used workstation with windows 7, and my wife’s uses 10. I also forgot I borrowed her laptop to record some practices a few times too a year and a half ago. Portable reaper installs and a usb hard drive make life easy.
USB always.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2018 22:02:10 GMT -6
I’ve used my 1248 on three different windows machines. One of which was my wife’s laptop to do a spur of the moment recording of a friend’s piano composition. I’ve never had any problems whatsoever with drivers or clicks or noise or whatever. AVB has been rock solid, adding the 16A was a breeze. I really am left wondering what other stuff folks have installed on their computers that make the drivers so flaky. I used it on three machines as well, two PC's one laptop.. The DAW machine only had a browser, Kontakt and Pro Tools built on a fresh install. I've also tested an RME UFX++, Soundcraft MTK-22, Apogee Duet 2 and Lynx Aurora (n) on that machine and not ONE of them had an issue.
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Post by keymod on Sept 22, 2018 6:50:52 GMT -6
Looking for a recommendation for a proper Thunderbolt Cable that can be used with the 16A, about ten feet in length. Ten feet in length is going to cut down on data transmission speed. That's why they are short. Understood, but my 16a is permanently installed in my rack which is about 10 ft in cable length away from my mixing console where I would like to be able to set a laptop. I wouldn't imagine the drop in speed would be that critical for my intended purpose.
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Post by matt@IAA on Sept 22, 2018 7:28:29 GMT -6
I’ve used my 1248 on three different windows machines. One of which was my wife’s laptop to do a spur of the moment recording of a friend’s piano composition. I’ve never had any problems whatsoever with drivers or clicks or noise or whatever. AVB has been rock solid, adding the 16A was a breeze. I really am left wondering what other stuff folks have installed on their computers that make the drivers so flaky. I used it on three machines as well, two PC's one laptop.. The DAW machine only had a browser, Kontakt and Pro Tools built on a fresh install. I've also tested an RME UFX++, Soundcraft MTK-22, Apogee Duet 2 and Lynx Aurora (n) on that machine and not ONE of them had an issue. Sure, which is why anecdotal evidence for this kind of thing isn’t all that useful. You say you’ve written drivers you know that it may not be the fault of MOTU - it could be an issue with something else, other drivers, other hardware. But simple logic dictates that the drivers do work on most machines, in most situations. It’s kind of crazy to imagine that motu is consistently providing drivers that generally do not work. For every sample size = 1 motu driver issue there may well be one for RME or Lynx, to counter yours. S’all Im sayin.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2018 9:29:43 GMT -6
I used it on three machines as well, two PC's one laptop.. The DAW machine only had a browser, Kontakt and Pro Tools built on a fresh install. I've also tested an RME UFX++, Soundcraft MTK-22, Apogee Duet 2 and Lynx Aurora (n) on that machine and not ONE of them had an issue. Sure, which is why anecdotal evidence for this kind of thing isn’t all that useful. You say you’ve written drivers you know that it may not be the fault of MOTU - it could be an issue with something else, other drivers, other hardware. But simple logic dictates that the drivers do work on most machines, in most situations. It’s kind of crazy to imagine that motu is consistently providing drivers that generally do not work. For every sample size = 1 motu driver issue there may well be one for RME or Lynx, to counter yours. S’all Im sayin. Yeah like Zoom releasing windows 10 drivers that plagued many (plus it's chipset selective) and Apogee releasing dodgy firmware for their Duet 2, sure it "never" happens.. Of course it does.! Even Svart has commented on the quality of some drivers. There's a massive list Tafkat compiled about the variances of driver latency on Windows and that's a direct reflection of how well they're written, it's also a well known fact MANY drivers from various manufacturers don't work well under load, you'll get the CPU up to 10% and all of a sudden plop.. Some interfaces use generic USB ASIO drivers that are known to be pretty poor. Yours works fine, I get that.. Now you're pushing your opinion in a "Dunning-Kruger" fashion with a little bit of condescension I'm out, I shared my experiences and getting into generic spats is unhelpful and pointless.. #Careface..
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Post by matt@IAA on Sept 22, 2018 9:47:19 GMT -6
Ok man, best of luck to you. Kinda awesome to toss an insult then pretend I’m the one being condescending. May all your drivers be stable.
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Post by keymod on Oct 5, 2018 9:55:25 GMT -6
Well, I got my 16a working with Win 7Pro. Rather, I should say I had the pleasure of having Chris Ludwig, from ADK Computers, tweak my entire system and get it working while visiting on site. Turns out he lives one town over from me here in Connecticut.
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Post by petertjed on Oct 6, 2018 3:38:02 GMT -6
After listening to the two files posted by Indiehouse for about an our on my MacBook Pro with Sony MDR7509 while surfing on the net. I couldn't hear much difference after switching back and forth. I think it is about small nuances not as big as an putting an la2a on your vocal channel. Symphony MKII: www.dropbox.com/s/vh5tv8ryb9vjuob/AC_SYMPHONYMKII.wav?dl=0Motu 16a: www.dropbox.com/s/ajz9kbq1avea4ts/AC_MOTU.wav?dl=0 I'm still in the market to replace my BLA 002R Signature, narrowed it down to the 16a/24ao with a BLA Sparrow(use this clock) or a Symphony mk1 16x16.
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