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Post by matt on Jun 19, 2018 16:11:33 GMT -6
My friends, I am thinking about updating my conversion. My Symphony MK1 works great, but I have an asymmetric number of analog ins/outs, 8x24, and I want to start using hardware inserts in Pro Tools. As far as I can tell, PT maps HW inserts number-for-number, i.e., insert #24 maps to input and output #24, and it can't be changed. Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong about this. So, I am looking to go 32x32 analog, the limit for PT native, and run the inserts on the upper channels. The lower inputs feed preamps to PT, and lower outputs head to my Sigma for summing. For once I do not want to spend $5K+ on replacement if I can avoid it. Two 16As run $3K USD. Antelope 32+ or HD are similarly priced but there are a lot of questions out there about reliability, and with the HD I'd be running over USB3. But my Pure2 is rock solid, so I won't rule out an Orion 32+ or HD based on Internet blather. I hesitate to add to the MK1 since even the legacy interface cards are still quite spendy and I'd have to replace both cards to get 32x32. Preferred connectivity is via Thunderbolt to my Trashcan Mac Pro. I need to fill my two 500 racks- please help fulfill my insatiable desire to acquire hardware EQs and compressors and run them like plugins!
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Post by indiehouse on Jun 19, 2018 17:57:36 GMT -6
My friends, I am thinking about updating my conversion. My Symphony MK1 works great, but I have an asymmetric number of analog ins/outs, 8x24, and I want to start using hardware inserts in Pro Tools. As far as I can tell, PT maps HW inserts number-for-number, i.e., insert #24 maps to input and output #24, and it can't be changed. Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong about this. So, I am looking to go 32x32 analog, the limit for PT native, and run the inserts on the upper channels. The lower inputs feed preamps to PT, and lower outputs head to my Sigma for summing. For once I do not want to spend $5K+ on replacement if I can avoid it. Two 16As run $3K USD. Antelope 32+ or HD are similarly priced but there are a lot of questions out there about reliability, and with the HD I'd be running over USB3. But my Pure2 is rock solid, so I won't rule out an Orion 32+ or HD based on Internet blather. I hesitate to add to the MK1 since even the legacy interface cards are still quite spendy and I'd have to replace both cards to get 32x32. Preferred connectivity is via Thunderbolt to my Trashcan Mac Pro. I need to fill my two 500 racks- please help fulfill my insatiable desire to acquire hardware EQs and compressors and run them like plugins! View AttachmentWouldn’t it be cheaper to pick up a couple of Samson patch bays? I’ve got my hardware inserts normalled for mixing and will patch in preamps when tracking. I’d rather do that and sink that saved money into some choice outboard rather than a bunch of conversion that will sit idle a large amount of time.
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Post by mulmany on Jun 19, 2018 18:49:32 GMT -6
I would bring it out analog patchbay. The fun is figuring out how you want your signal to flow. Tracking or mixing, patching or normaling.
I would go for good TT bays.
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Post by matt@IAA on Jun 19, 2018 19:10:37 GMT -6
If you keep an eye out you may be able to find a deal on a 16A. I got mine for really cheap basically new in box, second hand. It is pretty nice using it as a digital patchbay, but obviously quite a bit more expensive than a patch panel.
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Post by aremos on Jun 19, 2018 19:32:03 GMT -6
Why not the Symphony II with all it's extra card options?
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Post by matt on Jun 19, 2018 19:44:45 GMT -6
I've considered the patch bay thing, and may reconsider. Thanks for the comments. Regarding new conversion, I'm not sold on the MOTU, it just seems like a price/value contender for a 32x32 rig without breaking the bank. I'm definitely open to alternatives. In any event, I need more analog inputs than 8 since I'd like to start recording my band as a group in the studio. Musicians playing together, what a concept.
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Post by indiehouse on Jun 19, 2018 19:54:05 GMT -6
I've considered the patch bay thing, and may reconsider. Thanks for the comments. Regarding new conversion, I'm not sold on the MOTU, it just seems like a price/value contender for a 32x32 rig without breaking the bank. I'm definitely open to alternatives. In any event, I need more analog inputs than 8 since I'd like to start recording my band as a group in the studio. Musicians playing together, what a concept. Wasn’t the Motu conversion supposed to be on par with the Symphony MKI? Or something like that? Seems like it’d be a lateral move at best.
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Post by matt on Jun 19, 2018 19:55:47 GMT -6
Why not the Symphony II with all it's extra card options? That would be a great choice, but at $7490 outfitted with two 16x16 cards, it's more than I want to spend. More than I can spend, unfortunately. At that price, I'd look at Avid HD or perhaps DAD. There's lots of choices in the high end- there always is when money is no object. Not so much in the mid-range market at 32x32 analog.
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Post by matt on Jun 19, 2018 20:06:19 GMT -6
Regarding new conversion, I'm not sold on the MOTU Wasn’t the Motu conversion supposed to be on par with the Symphony MKI? Or something like that? Seems like it’d be a lateral move at best. If the MK1 was still supported, I'd probably go that route and buy cards. But it's not, so yes, I am interested in the 16A precisely because it's been compared to the MK1 for quality of conversion (same chips, ESS Sabre). Also, signal routing on the MOTU looks superior to that on Maestro 2, which works OK -it's stable- but is limited and dated compared to what is available today. And Apogee's current Control software is not compatible with MK1. The MK1 is great for straight-forward no-frills conversion, but I've collected enough outboard that I want to expand beyond 8x24.
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Post by matt@IAA on Jun 19, 2018 21:28:31 GMT -6
I’ve been really pleased with the matrix routing on the motu as well, and the AVB hookup is about as simple and straightforward as it gets.
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Post by mulmany on Jun 19, 2018 21:30:27 GMT -6
I am considering adding either another 16a or going the orion32+ route.
Like you I am not sure on the orion32+, since no one gives a straight answer on issues that they have with it.
I know the 16a has been stable and given me consistent low latency performance.
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Post by wiz on Jun 21, 2018 0:17:36 GMT -6
I use it (16A)
been great
cheers
Wiz
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Post by EmRR on Jun 21, 2018 4:52:57 GMT -6
I had a 1st gen 16A which had spotty stability with updates, MOTU swapped it out for another unit several years after i got it and the replacement has been rock solid. I have not driven any of the competitors enough to say.
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Post by matt on Jun 21, 2018 8:35:59 GMT -6
And your mixes sound fantastic, so that's a pretty good indicator of how good the 16A can sound!
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Post by matt on Jun 21, 2018 8:41:47 GMT -6
MOTU swapped it out for another unit several years after i got it That's good to hear- a manufacturer truly backing up their product, going above and beyond. This world needs more of it.
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 14,918
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Post by ericn on Jun 21, 2018 9:04:39 GMT -6
Can you do better? Yes you can but it will cost you exponentially more. I can’t think of anything close to the price that will give you 32x32 I/O.
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Post by matt on Jun 21, 2018 9:15:00 GMT -6
Can you do better? Yes you can but it will cost you exponentially more. I can’t think of anything close to the price that will give you 32x32 I/O. Exactly! There's really only the Orion 32+ at the same price point, $3K USD. Right now the 16A is looking like the one. Or two, actually.
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Post by mulmany on Jun 21, 2018 9:27:33 GMT -6
I am curious what happens if you try to run two 16a's over thunderbolt instead of using the avb stream. With your trash can you have enough ports to run them both on the same TB buss. I would assume it would keep them at the same latency instead of increased latency with the AVB.
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Post by EmRR on Jun 21, 2018 9:46:12 GMT -6
I am curious what happens if you try to run two 16a's over thunderbolt instead of using the avb stream. With your trash can you have enough ports to run them both on the same TB buss. I would assume it would keep them at the same latency instead of increased latency with the AVB. This is addressed somewhere (hopelessly lost) in the long GS thread. I don't detect a noticeable latency problem. Most people's latency problems seem to relate to a refusal to use the AVB monitor mixer or set up a parallel analog input monitor path.
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Post by matt@IAA on Jun 21, 2018 9:56:26 GMT -6
If you're buying two units, you could consider a pair of AI and AO for 24x24. Cheaper than two 16As.
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Post by matt on Jun 21, 2018 11:01:39 GMT -6
I am curious what happens if you try to run two 16a's over thunderbolt instead of using the avb stream. With your trash can you have enough ports to run them both on the same TB buss. I would assume it would keep them at the same latency instead of increased latency with the AVB. I have read that MOTU has sub-millisecond latency dialed in on their implementation of ABV. But of course, I could be wrong. I am thinking that I would connect 16A #1 via TB, and use ABV for everything else- 16A #2 at first, then possibly something more. I would have to work out proper monitoring for low latency recording, which is obviously a must.
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Post by matt on Jun 21, 2018 11:05:28 GMT -6
If you're buying two units, you could consider a pair of AI and AO for 24x24. Cheaper than two 16As. 32x32 is my goal. I'd love to save money, but not by reducing the I/O.
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Post by matt on Jun 21, 2018 11:06:39 GMT -6
I am curious what happens if you try to run two 16a's over thunderbolt instead of using the avb stream. Most people's latency problems seem to relate to a refusal to use the AVB monitor mixer or set up a parallel analog input monitor path. That's good info, thanks!
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Post by EmRR on Jun 21, 2018 11:54:10 GMT -6
If you're buying two units, you could consider a pair of AI and AO for 24x24. Cheaper than two 16As. Conversion isn't as good.
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Post by matt@IAA on Jun 21, 2018 12:05:56 GMT -6
Really? That’s surprising. I assumed they would be the same.
What about the 1248?
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