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Post by jimwilliams on Jun 30, 2018 19:45:02 GMT -6
I've run the one in the TV room 24/7 since April. It doesn't even get warm. It's made in Austria.
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Post by nudwig on Jul 5, 2018 15:58:13 GMT -6
Got mine in today, only had an hour to dig into it but so far I'd have to echo what everyone else here is saying. I originally had plans to do some A/B tests against the Lyra 1 I have at home but as nice as the Lyra is the A/B was unnecessary as it was pretty obvious the S2 was on a different level, plus I got a bit lost in just listening to music and forgot I had planned a test. I haven't done a proper test so take this with a grain of salt but from the quick listen it seemed to have a slightly bigger jump in clarity than when I brought the 8XR home from the studio and compared it to the Lyra. Way too many variables to stand by that claim but at 6% the cost I paid for the 8XR I'm feeling quite pleased. Thanks Jim and everyone for highlighting this under the radar DAC.
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Post by rob61 on Jul 7, 2018 10:10:39 GMT -6
Mine arrived and have it working fine. Tried USB first (so drivers would install under Windows 7) using an old USB port expander. Lots of noise came out of the monitors. But when I hooked up with optical and the supplied external PS (using optical out from my MOTU 16a) the noise disappeared and it sounds impressive. I've got a Black Lion Micro Clock II, so I'll experiment with that next. But even using the 16a with its internal clock, its a step up.
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Post by Johnkenn on Jul 7, 2018 10:12:34 GMT -6
Well damn...you guys are going to make me buy this, aren't you?
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Post by bram on Jul 7, 2018 10:52:12 GMT -6
Well damn...you guys are going to make me buy this, aren't you? No. I mean, yes. Definitely.
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Post by rob61 on Jul 7, 2018 11:02:12 GMT -6
Wow, just hooked up the Micro Clock II. Amazing. Seriously, it really makes a noticable difference. The S2, running optical off the 16a with the Micro Clock II, is fantastic. Its like I just added a set of very expensive new monitors for $400.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jul 7, 2018 11:20:34 GMT -6
Go for it John! I'd love to see what your impressions are. I'd get one too, but have other budget priorities right now, like uhh.. eating. My work picks up mid- September so I have to lay low in the summertime.
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Post by nudwig on Jul 7, 2018 13:14:15 GMT -6
I seriously love this thing. I'm thinking of getting another just to keep with me at all times as the headphone amp drives my 7520's solidly, great mobile solution all powered from the USB. Finally sat down and did some work with it yesterday, no issues receiving the optical from the Lyra. Nice and easy hearing what I needed to address in the mix. Ok, back to getting lost in music...
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Post by Johnkenn on Jul 7, 2018 13:46:26 GMT -6
Hey - so didn’t someone say they didn’t really hear much improvement from their current da via optical? The real difference was the new streaming format?
Also - if this is rca out...could I keep it connected to my power amp along with the xlrs I already have connected from my apogee? Then just switch on the amp? (I assume there’s a switch on my amp...maybe not
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Post by indiehouse on Jul 7, 2018 14:11:59 GMT -6
Wow, just hooked up the Micro Clock II. Amazing. Seriously, it really makes a noticable difference. The S2, running optical off the 16a with the Micro Clock II, is fantastic. Its like I just added a set of very expensive new monitors for $400. How is the S2 clock compared to the Motu clock? Also, is the S2 knob a volume knob? Anyone using it as a monitor controller? Did I read that connecting headphones disables the main outs?
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Post by bram on Jul 7, 2018 14:26:22 GMT -6
Hey - so didn’t someone say they didn’t really hear much improvement from their current da via optical? The real difference was the new streaming format? Also - if this is rca out...could I keep it connected to my power amp along with the xlrs I already have connected from my apogee? Then just switch on the amp? (I assume there’s a switch on my amp...maybe not That was me. The difference was drastic when listening to MQA files on Tidal via the S2 in USB mode. Connected via optical at 96k and standard listening there was still a noticeable difference (crisp, more high freq, “clinical”) but it wasn’t a considerable difference from the miniDSP that was doing the D/A before. I could happily make music on both. Does the Apogee have a digital mirror mode for the monitor outs? That’s how I do it with the Apollo. If so it sounds like connecting to your amp that way should work.
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Post by bram on Jul 7, 2018 14:49:30 GMT -6
Also, is the S2 knob a volume knob? Anyone using it as a monitor controller? Did I read that connecting headphones disables the main outs? S2 knob works as a volume knob for whatever source you're playing from. Plugging in headphone does indeed cut mains volume.
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Post by jeromemason on Jul 7, 2018 15:33:15 GMT -6
Hey - so didn’t someone say they didn’t really hear much improvement from their current da via optical? The real difference was the new streaming format? Also - if this is rca out...could I keep it connected to my power amp along with the xlrs I already have connected from my apogee? Then just switch on the amp? (I assume there’s a switch on my amp...maybe not To me the difference is pretty incredible..... You could do what you're wanting too, run the XLR's parallel with the RCA's and switch the amp. Also I totally agree with what was said above, when I swapped between the internal clock on the 16a and my BLA MKIII the difference was dramatic, totally opened the top up and revealed any hidden distortion and also revealed what my low-end was really doing. Not that the S2 isn't a giant step up in monitoring either way, but it's pretty wild how you can hear what a solid master clock is doing. Listening to MQA will totally blow your mind. When the S2 is decoding and you're just chilling and listening.... You'll get lost in listening to recordings you've always loved. What really blew my mind was listening to "Hans Zimmer Live" in MQA..... You could hear the scratch of the bow's in each string section.... the pops of the keys in the brass section.... the damn screws in the seats vibrating when some of the synth sub stuff was played. Once you go the S2 and MQA I don't know of another better way to listen. This isn't hyperbole.... I'm deadly serious about all this. I even have it set up so I can move my S2 from the mix room to the living room when it's time to watch a movie or if the wife want's to chill on the couch and listen to Tommy Emmanuel after a long day at work. The wife wants her own S2, a silver one haha.
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Post by indiehouse on Jul 7, 2018 15:42:02 GMT -6
Hey - so didn’t someone say they didn’t really hear much improvement from their current da via optical? The real difference was the new streaming format? Also - if this is rca out...could I keep it connected to my power amp along with the xlrs I already have connected from my apogee? Then just switch on the amp? (I assume there’s a switch on my amp...maybe not That was me. The difference was drastic when listening to MQA files on Tidal via the S2 in USB mode. Connected via optical at 96k and standard listening there was still a noticeable difference (crisp, more high freq, “clinical”) but it wasn’t a considerable difference from the miniDSP that was doing the D/A before. I could happily make music on both. Does the Apogee have a digital mirror mode for the monitor outs? That’s how I do it with the Apollo. If so it sounds like connecting to your amp that way should work. Let me ask you this, would you hesitate to buy it again?
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Post by bram on Jul 7, 2018 16:22:58 GMT -6
@indie if you’re satisfied with the rest of your chain, gear, and tools and you have a few hundred bucks to spend, you can’t go wrong. I’d trust the veterans’ opinions on this one, there’s nothing comparable until you’re into four-figure converter land. I think you can buy them from Amazon, so it would be low-risk if you wanted to return it.
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Post by jeromemason on Jul 7, 2018 18:31:14 GMT -6
indiehouseWhat converter are you using for your D/A monitor Adam?
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Post by indiehouse on Jul 7, 2018 19:18:47 GMT -6
indiehouseWhat converter are you using for your D/A monitor Adam? Symphony MKII.
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Post by jeromemason on Jul 7, 2018 22:41:46 GMT -6
indiehouse What converter are you using for your D/A monitor Adam? Symphony MKII. So the ESS conversion chips are the 9018's. Assuming you have either an 8 or 16 out and you're monitoring off a pair of those channels, the ESS chip is outputting in 8 channel mode. The deal with the S2 is it is using the newest ESS chip, the ES9038 that is setup to run in parallel mono block channels, which increases the dynamic range and improves the noise. Also, if you're running a solid master clock, the S2 specs in the femto range of jitter, in their specs it claims 100 fs. Even if that's in the best of settings, you'd still be sub pico seconds in jitter. Running from USB with an external PSU you should expect what it's spec'ing at 100 femto, maybe a tad more. So, you have 2 generations newer in the ESS chip, it's setup in a configuration that maximizes dynamic range and noise (which is noticeable right from the start, you'd feel this box has some ass to it.) Also, the S2 is using ESS' voltage reg's and amp's for gain and the HP out, all of which are totally top shelf. When I ran my HP's off the S2 they took on a whole new sound, that caused me to gain instant respect for what the designers of the S2 had accomplished and the amount of care that went into the design. So you add all that together, add in the ultra hi-res sample rates, the MQA decoder on board and filters to tailor your ears to and I believe you'd notice a pretty sizable difference. Especially with the high resolution monitors you're running, you're going to be able to hear very quickly the difference. My Focal Shapes displayed the difference to me instantly. I was totally lost in listening to tracks I've loved over the years, hearing them in such detail and even being able to hear a lot of information I hadn't in the past. The tracks that had been MQA encoded really blew me away. I know there is some debate on MQA, but that's the best sounding audio I've heard delivered to me rather than me pulling up an actual ProTools session and listening. Those are basically the facts of it, for $399, like others have said, you'd have to be paying somewhere between $1,500 and $2,300 to get that kind of results. Hope that helps clarify some of it up for you.
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Post by indiehouse on Jul 7, 2018 22:57:24 GMT -6
So the ESS conversion chips are the 9018's. Assuming you have either an 8 or 16 out and you're monitoring off a pair of those channels, the ESS chip is outputting in 8 channel mode. The deal with the S2 is it is using the newest ESS chip, the ES9038 that is setup to run in parallel mono block channels, which increases the dynamic range and improves the noise. Also, if you're running a solid master clock, the S2 specs in the femto range of jitter, in their specs it claims 100 fs. Even if that's in the best of settings, you'd still be sub pico seconds in jitter. Running from USB with an external PSU you should expect what it's spec'ing at 100 femto, maybe a tad more. So, you have 2 generations newer in the ESS chip, it's setup in a configuration that maximizes dynamic range and noise (which is noticeable right from the start, you'd feel this box has some ass to it.) Also, the S2 is using ESS' voltage reg's and amp's for gain and the HP out, all of which are totally top shelf. When I ran my HP's off the S2 they took on a whole new sound, that caused me to gain instant respect for what the designers of the S2 had accomplished and the amount of care that went into the design. So you add all that together, add in the ultra hi-res sample rates, the MQA decoder on board and filters to tailor your ears to and I believe you'd notice a pretty sizable difference. Especially with the high resolution monitors you're running, you're going to be able to hear very quickly the difference. My Focal Shapes displayed the difference to me instantly. I was totally lost in listening to tracks I've loved over the years, hearing them in such detail and even being able to hear a lot of information I hadn't in the past. The tracks that had been MQA encoded really blew me away. I know there is some debate on MQA, but that's the best sounding audio I've heard delivered to me rather than me pulling up an actual ProTools session and listening. Those are basically the facts of it, for $399, like others have said, you'd have to be paying somewhere between $1,500 and $2,300 to get that kind of results. Hope that helps clarify some of it up for you. Thanks man. As a side note, I’ve been kicking around the idea of selling the Symphony and trying the Motu 16a again. You still digging that? This is mainly a move to free up some cash, as there’s a hefty price difference between the two. I worry (probably unnecessarily) that it’s getting a bit long in the tooth now.
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Post by jeromemason on Jul 7, 2018 23:16:56 GMT -6
Thanks man. As a side note, I’ve been kicking around the idea of selling the Symphony and trying the Motu 16a again. You still digging that? This is mainly a move to free up some cash, as there’s a hefty price difference between the two. I worry (probably unnecessarily) that it’s getting a bit long in the tooth now. For sure..... The 16a for me has been as rock solid as it gets. Until they come out with a new converter using the newest gen ESS chips, maybe the new AKM A/D chips, I don't see any reason to move. To go any higher in conversion I'd have to get into boxes that were well in the JCF range and I just can't justify spending that kind of cash unless I was an Alan Myerson or Justin Niebank. For what I mix, what I get paid, the 16a is more than I could ask for, I'm grateful to have it. I don't think you'd miss that Apogee..... I think you'd settle right back into the 16a and feel good with some cash in your pocket. Maybe if that cash is burning a hole in your pocket an S2 can settle in at your place too. Honestly IMHO the 16a's D/A and A/D are more than capable of tracking and mixing...... Get yourself a magic little box like the S2 to monitor from so you can make better decisions at record and mix time. Grab one off Amazon, if I'm wrong in your opinion send it back..... But, I'm not Those Focal Shapes reveal a ton of detail and the difference in my 16a's monitoring capabilities and the S2 were not even on the same planet. In fact, I have it set up so I can monitor both the S2 and 16a with my Satori.... I was finishing a mix the other day and the artist, a girl, sat there and heard the difference. Like I said my wife wants her own for the living room lol.
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Post by Johnkenn on Jul 8, 2018 10:41:13 GMT -6
So the ESS conversion chips are the 9018's. Assuming you have either an 8 or 16 out and you're monitoring off a pair of those channels, the ESS chip is outputting in 8 channel mode. The deal with the S2 is it is using the newest ESS chip, the ES9038 that is setup to run in parallel mono block channels, which increases the dynamic range and improves the noise. Also, if you're running a solid master clock, the S2 specs in the femto range of jitter, in their specs it claims 100 fs. Even if that's in the best of settings, you'd still be sub pico seconds in jitter. Running from USB with an external PSU you should expect what it's spec'ing at 100 femto, maybe a tad more. So, you have 2 generations newer in the ESS chip, it's setup in a configuration that maximizes dynamic range and noise (which is noticeable right from the start, you'd feel this box has some ass to it.) Also, the S2 is using ESS' voltage reg's and amp's for gain and the HP out, all of which are totally top shelf. When I ran my HP's off the S2 they took on a whole new sound, that caused me to gain instant respect for what the designers of the S2 had accomplished and the amount of care that went into the design. So you add all that together, add in the ultra hi-res sample rates, the MQA decoder on board and filters to tailor your ears to and I believe you'd notice a pretty sizable difference. Especially with the high resolution monitors you're running, you're going to be able to hear very quickly the difference. My Focal Shapes displayed the difference to me instantly. I was totally lost in listening to tracks I've loved over the years, hearing them in such detail and even being able to hear a lot of information I hadn't in the past. The tracks that had been MQA encoded really blew me away. I know there is some debate on MQA, but that's the best sounding audio I've heard delivered to me rather than me pulling up an actual ProTools session and listening. Those are basically the facts of it, for $399, like others have said, you'd have to be paying somewhere between $1,500 and $2,300 to get that kind of results. Hope that helps clarify some of it up for you. Thanks man. As a side note, I’ve been kicking around the idea of selling the Symphony and trying the Motu 16a again. You still digging that? This is mainly a move to free up some cash, as there’s a hefty price difference between the two. I worry (probably unnecessarily) that it’s getting a bit long in the tooth now. Do it. And report back so I can do the same thing.
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 14,982
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Post by ericn on Jul 9, 2018 9:57:53 GMT -6
Really surprised with all the talk about this none of the US pro audio dealers have called Sumiko ( US distributor ) and gotten set up as a dealer, I know I would have been trying to get this going.
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Post by indiehouse on Jul 9, 2018 10:21:57 GMT -6
Really surprised with all the talk about this none of the US pro audio dealers have called Sumiko ( US distributor ) and gotten set up as a dealer, I know I would have been trying to get this going. Well, I can't find much talk about it outside of the couple guys on this thread. A quick search on the other site is a bunch of posts, mainly all from Jim.
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 14,982
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Post by ericn on Jul 9, 2018 11:22:41 GMT -6
Really surprised with all the talk about this none of the US pro audio dealers have called Sumiko ( US distributor ) and gotten set up as a dealer, I know I would have been trying to get this going. Well, I can't find much talk about it outside of the couple guys on this thread. A quick search on the other site is a bunch of posts, mainly all from Jim. I just keep hearing people talk about this thing! I guess it comes down to nobody shilling the thing.
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Post by matt on Jul 9, 2018 11:52:22 GMT -6
People know about the 9038, but it seems to be mostly the audiophile community. I just found this: Matrix X-Sabre Pro
Intriguing, but at $1699 it is obviously much more expensive than the S2. It is sexxxy though, and looks like it may surround the 9038 with higher-end components. If it wasn't for the existence of the S2, it would seem to be reasonably priced. Pro-Ject needs to do an ADC using the 9038 or equivalent (is the 9038 a DAC only?).
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