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Post by spindrift on Feb 2, 2018 14:47:41 GMT -6
This is where we need a benevolent multi-billionaire who really appreciates music. Have them fund a tax advantaged loss-producing venture, hire top talent, interview all the old living guys who have tube expertise, buy up old equipment or make some new, and revive the production of specialty tubes. DO IT FOR THE CHILDREN!!!!!!!!
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Post by cowboycoalminer on Feb 2, 2018 15:18:28 GMT -6
Can someone explain to me how in this age of technology and knowledge, a tube can't be built that exceeds or at least matches a tube in performance that was made 75 years ago? Is it the materials that are no longer available or what?? Come on, man, you know the answer. The machines (for those particular tube types) don't exist anymore and much expertise has been lost, especially trade secrets regarding metallurgy. And then there's the question of environmental regulations which, so I've been told, is what killed tube manufacturing in the US and Western Europe. And then there's the economies of scale. It's a sad but true fact that the market for VF-14 and AC701 tubes in microphones is TINY and there is no other current commercial market for them. It's practical to make all the common tubes used in most other audio gear because those tubes are used in a lot more products. And even so the overall quality is not what it used to be. Well no, I'm afraid I don't know the answer else I wouldn't have asked the question. Your second paragraph makes sense though.
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Post by johneppstein on Feb 2, 2018 15:39:22 GMT -6
Come on, man, you know the answer. The machines (for those particular tube types) don't exist anymore and much expertise has been lost, especially trade secrets regarding metallurgy. And then there's the question of environmental regulations which, so I've been told, is what killed tube manufacturing in the US and Western Europe. And then there's the economies of scale. It's a sad but true fact that the market for VF-14 and AC701 tubes in microphones is TINY and there is no other current commercial market for them. It's practical to make all the common tubes used in most other audio gear because those tubes are used in a lot more products. And even so the overall quality is not what it used to be. Well no, I'm afraid I don't know the answer else I wouldn't have asked the question. Your second paragraph makes sense though. The loss of the machiners and the metallurgical secrets is huge, too. Those tubes were probably not made on the same machines as tubes commonly made now, they were a somewhat different format. And most of those old machines went for landfill. They might be able to be duplicated if the plans still exist but it would be prohibitively expensive for such a niche item. The metallurgy is harder. Obviously we have great metallurgists now and the state of the science is much advanced but that ain't everything. What's missing is the obsessive interest needed to solve that particular problem, which isn't of much interest these days. You'd need somebody who was both a crack metallurgist and an obsessive audio tube nut who was in a position to work on the problem with very little compensation for the work.
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Post by EmRR on Feb 2, 2018 16:59:01 GMT -6
We got this question well covered in every other U47 thread. Actual number of those tubes ever made is under 28,000, and they still haven't run out 70 years later. Not only do the numbers not work, they were picked for functionality, not sound. Sound is a modern take on it, only because it's been accepted as a standard, no one knows the recipe for that. There are plenty of things that hit the checkbox for functionality.
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Post by Vincent R. on Feb 2, 2018 19:16:17 GMT -6
I think it’s really and R&D expense issue. The cost of getting right or at least getting it close doesn’t compete with the possible sales. I still think if Telefunken or FleA could do it it would increase the sales of their replica’s greatly.
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Post by bluegrassdan on Feb 3, 2018 9:10:52 GMT -6
Would be interested in seeing harmonic distortion measurement graphs and time-based transient measurements in comparison to an original VF14 before drawing conclusions.
Then, I’d want to hear them.
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Post by donr on Feb 3, 2018 9:26:55 GMT -6
Maybe someday some genius could 'black box' what the tube did and does. Sorta like a Kemper for vacuum tubes.
It's remarkable in 2018 with audio's pristine linearity, we ache for the sonorous euphonics of a less perfect era. Similarly with film and video. You don't want that huge image to be so crisp that it looks like the actors are in the room with you, do you?
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Post by EmRR on Feb 3, 2018 9:54:07 GMT -6
Think of it from this angle: The Asian hifi vintage market is far larger and more well funded, many billionaires and millionaires exploring the esoterica of vintage professional audio. They haven't cracked the Western Electric sound yet; speakers, transformers, or tubes. Same deal.
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Post by gevermil on Feb 3, 2018 10:01:48 GMT -6
good point
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Post by johneppstein on Feb 3, 2018 14:52:21 GMT -6
Maybe someday some genius could 'black box' what the tube did and does. Sorta like a Kemper for vacuum tubes. It's remarkable in 2018 with audio's pristine linearity, we ache for the sonorous euphonics of a less perfect era. Similarly with film and video. You don't want that huge image to be so crisp that it looks like the actors are in the room with you, do you? Or a (sharply delineated) blue/green screen image of the actor against a dubbed backdrop...
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Post by c0rtland on Feb 3, 2018 16:08:08 GMT -6
Maybe someday some genius could 'black box' what the tube did and does. Sorta like a Kemper for vacuum tubes. It's remarkable in 2018 with audio's pristine linearity, we ache for the sonorous euphonics of a less perfect era. Similarly with film and video. You don't want that huge image to be so crisp that it looks like the actors are in the room with you, do you? Soul isn't pristine or clinical. Soul can be messy and erratic.
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