|
|
Post by Johnkenn on Jan 26, 2014 21:41:08 GMT -6
|
|
|
|
Post by cowboycoalminer on Jan 26, 2014 21:50:24 GMT -6
Noticed this. You being a PT user, this would be the cats ass for you. Won't work with Cubase(only core audio). Already tried when it was first released. I got one of the first ones to test it out.
|
|
|
|
Post by Johnkenn on Jan 26, 2014 22:51:24 GMT -6
Thunderbridge doesn't work with Cubase?
I wouldn't know what to do if I could set my buffers to 64.
|
|
|
|
Post by cowboycoalminer on Jan 27, 2014 14:03:05 GMT -6
Didn't for me. Maybe I was doing something wrong but my latency in Cubase actually went up. Ha
|
|
|
|
Post by popmann on Jan 27, 2014 14:48:47 GMT -6
That's because with the Symphony interface*, be it the cards or the new TB (which is the contents of the Symphony64 in a TB box), there's no ASIO driver. Steinberg refuses to switch to CoreAudio and instead give compatibility via a "wrapper" of CoreAudio to ASIO2 under the hood.
It's actually the reason (IMO) that o many people say it runs better on Windows--my experience, having run Cubase on both, is that if you're using an ASIO interface, it runs exactly the same--or give or take the same-I wasn't running benchmarks of how many instances of X plug in I could run). But, if you're relying on Apple's Core Audio, it will seem like an also ran next to Logic which was converted (obviously) to run Apple's native audio API (application programming interface--for the non geeks). If you had to run the Windows version under the WDM to ASIO generic driver (their OS level audio API), it would run WORSE than CoreAudio....but, no one does that...because it's unusable for ANY professional application.
*no idea if the USB interface has one...
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2014 15:28:27 GMT -6
all modern apogee gear drivers are built on the CoreAudio API.
|
|
|
|
Post by cowboycoalminer on Jan 27, 2014 15:57:01 GMT -6
Makes sense Jamie. That's why I'm content with my current rig. Apollo as interface and Symphony in standalone via ADAT. Works great with Cubase. It works with PT as well but it isn't nearly as stable. If I was a PT guy, I'd defiantly go Thunderbridge with the Symphony though.
|
|
|
|
Post by Johnkenn on Jan 27, 2014 16:38:26 GMT -6
So - as far as benefits of the Thunderbolt, let me see if I have this straight...
It will be much less latency than USB at similar buffer rates? But running a 40 track session at 64 buffers still depends on processor power, right? I mean, the TB doesn't reduce processing load...so, I couldn't just set to 64 and forget about it, right? (Which would be the only reason I would want it)...It would be great not to have to worry about using the Maestro Mixer, being able to add verb in phones via insert..blah blah...
Does my question make any sense?
|
|
|
|
Post by matt on Jan 27, 2014 16:49:31 GMT -6
UA talks about Thunderbolt on Apollo as primarily freeing up bandwidth for DSP. I'm not sure that TB is faster than USB or FW, but it can handle more data at any given moment.
For me, recording at 64 or (gasp) 32 samples seems to be a function of CPU. My Mini with PT 11.1 and BFD3 running is reasonably stable at 128 with 30-50% processor load. At 64, PT errors out after 15-30 sec when BFD is being triggered. A new 6+ core Mac Pro would be required to fix this (or a maxed out old one).
|
|
|
|
Post by Johnkenn on Jan 27, 2014 16:57:37 GMT -6
See - that's what I'm wondering...I've just been using the no latency mixer and running at 1024 for so long that I don't think about it...I've got a late 2012 Mac Mini i7 with 16gb RAM, so I'm sure it could run at 128 in a big session without many plugs...but lots of times I cut the vocal last on tracks I'm building and it's already got tons of instruments and plugs. Not sure 64 or even 128 is a possibility.
|
|
|
|
Post by matt on Jan 27, 2014 17:18:07 GMT -6
I've just been using the no latency mixer and running at 1024 for so long that I don't think about it Me too, except when tracking drums. 128 is acceptable, but 64 or 32 would be wonderful to have. BTW, I run all sessions at 48K/24, and a "stripped" instantiation of BFD when recording, meaning less sample depth/voices and ram usage. It's all configurable within BFD. Then, at mix I turn every parameter up as far as possible to get the best sounding kit. This approach is working pretty well so far. |
|
|
|
Post by popmann on Jan 27, 2014 17:35:54 GMT -6
So - as far as benefits of the Thunderbolt, let me see if I have this straight... It will be much less latency than USB at similar buffer rates? But running a 40 track session at 64 buffers still depends on processor power, right? I mean, the TB doesn't reduce processing load...so, I couldn't just set to 64 and forget about it, right? (Which would be the only reason I would want it)...It would be great not to have to worry about using the Maestro Mixer, being able to add verb in phones via insert..blah blah... Does my question make any sense? Thunderbolt increases data bandwidth mainly. It MAY lower latency or CPU usage at extremely small buffers...but, it's benefit isn't one to YOU--it will run 64x64 channels of 96khz audio through it where USB would choke. So, if you're running a studio feeding an analog desk, you NEED something other than USB. Or I suppose someone MIGHT have that many hardware inserts...hell--how much IO is on one of those B32 summing units? Add hardware inserts to that... One of the misunderstandings is people think it's "faster" than Firewire...or USB...which I suppose it depends on how one defines "faster"....but, the reason companies have been dragging their feet and we don't see $250 TB boxes is there's no NEED. The only advantage becomes "I have an unused port on my Mac and want to use it". It's a PCIe replacement in terms of bandwidth. It's intended to be an external "hub bus" of sorts--that manufacturers can dangle 4 firewire and 32 USB and a couple DVI ports, etc, off of....for carrying a few channels of 88.2/96khz audio both ways (in an overdub studio) there's no need for TB's bandwidth. Also--using Maestro your latency won't change at all. But, I think you know that. I just need to type it to make sure. I run my Cubase system at 1024 all day...I'm using an analog mixer for cues, but it would work the same if I open Totalmix (RME's hardware DSP mixer like Meastro is to Apogee) and do it with that-you're just monitoring post conversion and that's inherent couple MS latency. |
|
|
|
Post by Johnkenn on Jan 27, 2014 18:00:40 GMT -6
So - as far as benefits of the Thunderbolt, let me see if I have this straight... It will be much less latency than USB at similar buffer rates? But running a 40 track session at 64 buffers still depends on processor power, right? I mean, the TB doesn't reduce processing load...so, I couldn't just set to 64 and forget about it, right? (Which would be the only reason I would want it)...It would be great not to have to worry about using the Maestro Mixer, being able to add verb in phones via insert..blah blah... Does my question make any sense? Thunderbolt increases data bandwidth mainly. It MAY lower latency or CPU usage at extremely small buffers...but, it's benefit isn't one to YOU--it will run 64x64 channels of 96khz audio through it where USB would choke. So, if you're running a studio feeding an analog desk, you NEED something other than USB. Or I suppose someone MIGHT have that many hardware inserts...hell--how much IO is on one of those B32 summing units? Add hardware inserts to that... One of the misunderstandings is people think it's "faster" than Firewire...or USB...which I suppose it depends on how one defines "faster"....but, the reason companies have been dragging their feet and we don't see $250 TB boxes is there's no NEED. The only advantage becomes "I have an unused port on my Mac and want to use it". It's a PCIe replacement in terms of bandwidth. It's intended to be an external "hub bus" of sorts--that manufacturers can dangle 4 firewire and 32 USB and a couple DVI ports, etc, off of....for carrying a few channels of 88.2/96khz audio both ways (in an overdub studio) there's no need for TB's bandwidth. Also--using Maestro your latency won't change at all. But, I think you know that. I just need to type it to make sure. I run my Cubase system at 1024 all day...I'm using an analog mixer for cues, but it would work the same if I open Totalmix (RME's hardware DSP mixer like Meastro is to Apogee) and do it with that-you're just monitoring post conversion and that's inherent couple MS latency. Excellent...That's what I needed to confirm...I guess it's really no benefit to me. Sorry I've been a little thick - I'm just now realizing how you're saying to implement a cheap mixer for the headphone cue (I think)...You're just saying go out of the Symphony, into a little mixer with some cheap verb, then out to HP's...But in my case, since I'm using the Hearback, I really could just use a cheap reverb unit...or for that matter, just bus the vocal pre-fader to an AUX with verb on it...right? Popmann, you're the greatest  |
|
|
|
Post by popmann on Jan 27, 2014 18:12:21 GMT -6
I won't pretend to understand the ins and outs of the Hearback.
I actually use analog for cues....AND own nice hardware reverbs...and still just use the software solution I've laid out here previously because it's easier. In fact, sometimes I use the Lexi through the software mixer that way...as if it WAS a plug in...
If you do decide you want a nice hardware reverb, though....I did put my PCM91 up on Craigslist. I feel like I'm going to regret it....but, I'm getting ready to track and really wanna do the whole new project with a Burl, so...not close to retiring my KSP8...but, I'm making the bet that come mix time I can live without the PCM91. Fingers crossed.
|
|
|
|
Post by cowboycoalminer on Jan 27, 2014 18:30:07 GMT -6
This another great advantage to running the Apollo as the interface John, sub 2 millisecond cue latency. I have the option of running my cue mix analog (like Jamie) which I usually do pre converter, but if I'm in a hurry, I'll just patch straight into the digital ins of the Apollo wether Burl or Symphony and I still get a great cue mix. I never use the Maestro software and I'm always at 1024 as well. Without going analog cue, I honestly think the Apollo and Symphony is a fantastic solution for you. Since you already have a UAD satellite, you could pick up an original Apollo duo used pretty reasonable and be rocking.
|
|
|
|
Post by Johnkenn on Jan 27, 2014 18:34:42 GMT -6
Yeah - that would be a cool solution...just not sure that's where I would want to put $1500... I could probably buy another Kemper for $1600...hmmmmm... |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2014 1:31:58 GMT -6
Here's what i do in logic:
Audio track output -> Bus -> Main outs
Audio Track send -> reverb bus -> Main outs.
Preferences -> Audio Tab -> make sure "software monitoring is turned on"
turn on Input Monitoring for the audio track.
Mute the Bus the audio track is assigned to.
make sure the audio track is unmuted.
make sure the reverb bus is unmuted.
Now, the dry (zero-latency) signal comes from Maestro, and the reverb signal comes from Logic. It's the best of both worlds , and also means I don't have to own outboard effects or a mixer to get zero latency monitoring and still hear some effects while recording.
The only downside is that when I listen back, i have to remember to unmute the audio track bus, or else I'll only hear the reverb'd version of the audio track.
|
|
