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Post by jeromemason on Jan 10, 2018 15:38:57 GMT -6
Any of you guys ever use this plugin in some capacity?
Had a colleague of mine today swear by it (puts records consistently in the top 10) for using it pre compressor and then using it extremely lightly post compressor. I remember tinkering once with it but that was a long time ago, like probably when it first came out. Kind of makes sense to me if you're going pre comp and letting it take a lot of the load off the compressor(s) in terms of compression amount. Seem like a brilliant way to retain dynamics and also getting bigger vocals by not hitting the comps too hard. He told me sidechaining into it will keep it locked all the way through the song and make doing vocal rides much much faster and more precise.
I picked it up, got it for like $22 I'm sure if I don't like it on vox I'll find a use somewhere for it.
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Post by Tbone81 on Jan 10, 2018 15:57:06 GMT -6
I like it. I use it vox - compressor - vocal rider - limiter
Does the job well.
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Post by wiz on Jan 10, 2018 16:20:37 GMT -6
I like it
Cheers
Wiz
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Post by Johnkenn on Jan 10, 2018 17:35:34 GMT -6
I should use it more than I do. It works well, but I don’t like writing the automation...just let it run real time.
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Post by M57 on Jan 10, 2018 17:42:08 GMT -6
I never use mine anymore - though I can see that it would be useful if you need to punch out a quick mix. I'm more likely to use the Bass Rider as a time saver, but even there, I prefer my own automation.
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Post by wiz on Jan 10, 2018 17:42:24 GMT -6
I should use it more than I do. It works well, but I don’t like writing the automation...just let it run real time. Yeah, I never write the automation. Cheers Wiz |
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Post by Johnkenn on Jan 10, 2018 17:46:24 GMT -6
I kind of stopped using it because it’s hard to get the slider and output adjusted if you want to change volume...like if I’m bringing down the whole mix to get more headroom, I’m then hitting it at different input level. I had an issue with it like once or twice - and just stopped using it...maybe I’ll try it again.
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Post by lcr on Jan 10, 2018 20:14:28 GMT -6
Yep, most of the time I use one before and after compressor. The same goes for bass rider, most of the time. Both used real time, never write automation.
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Post by gouge on Jan 10, 2018 20:43:33 GMT -6
i like it a lot too.
i use it in realtime before compressors. looks like i need to use t after as well to hear what happens.
it can start to get siblant if being used on extreme settings.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jan 10, 2018 20:48:25 GMT -6
I use it on bass, stopped using it n vocals, level setting was annoying somehow.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2018 15:41:24 GMT -6
I use it everyday in my mixes. Prefer it over emulated compressors.
At first didn't get it to work properly until I found my way:
I open two instances in series. The first only applies reduction in fast mode (maximum 3 to 4 dB reduction). The second one raises level in slow mode (3 to 4 dB maximum). The result is an almost transparent 8 dB dynamic range reduction. If I need Colour I just open any emulation compressor plugin without working or just 1dB reduction.
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Post by iamasound on Jan 11, 2018 16:20:30 GMT -6
When I have used it on a vocal I let it run freely. Next in line comes an optical compressor as it need not be looking to grab at the now more evened out and natural signal with fast mov8ng and grabby hands. If it is a busier mix with jealous tracks trying to hem in the vox I might call for an 1176 type to help it sit even more still, or even add some Kush Omega A or N depending on which vibe fills the jib.
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Post by jeromemason on Jan 11, 2018 21:16:35 GMT -6
I'm hooked on this........
I was told the "secret sauce" by my colleague today but it mainly consist of running this thing in series in multiple instances, hitting compression and finally one to keep it at a constant level related to the dynamics of the mix.
I will also say this can be used on more than just vocals..... I was doing some really wicked things with electric and acoustic guitars too. I wish companies instead of creating emulations of things would just do their own thing and make the audio world better and give us better technology rather than successfully emulating an 1176, that's pretty much been done, 1000x over. Tools like this allow us to get even more creative, artistic and doing it at a fast pace as well.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2018 4:41:31 GMT -6
I'm hooked on this........ I was told the "secret sauce" by my colleague today but it mainly consist of running this thing in series in multiple instances, hitting compression and finally one to keep it at a constant level related to the dynamics of the mix. I will also say this can be used on more than just vocals..... I was doing some really wicked things with electric and acoustic guitars too. I wish companies instead of creating emulations of things would just do their own thing and make the audio world better and give us better technology rather than successfully emulating an 1176, that's pretty much been done, 1000x over. Tools like this allow us to get even more creative, artistic and doing it at a fast pace as well. Must confess I use it on almost every track (guitar, bass, brass, piano, etc). Used with caution makes a great tool. Don't understand people bashing some plugins just because they cannot make it work properly. IMHO Vocal Rider has 4 key points: - fast/slow mode - target - sensitivity (adjust carefully beside fast/slow mode) - range (don't pretend to apply 10dB reduction and almost immediately raise 6dB) |
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Post by Ward on Jan 12, 2018 13:33:38 GMT -6
Lord knows I've tried it enough times... and used every possible setting but I just can't feel any love for it. I need to spend some time with jeromemason |
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Post by Johnkenn on Jan 12, 2018 17:46:38 GMT -6
Used it more today before a comp and love it...I haven't gotten into sidechaining it yet.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jan 12, 2018 20:16:01 GMT -6
Now I'll have to try it again in front of a vocal compressor. It makes sense, less compression needed, less harshness.
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Post by jeromemason on Jan 13, 2018 15:29:04 GMT -6
I love this thing, but I will say you have to sit and get creative on how to implement it and also how to make sure it doesn't bite you in the ass because it will if you don't set up the gain staging and sensitivity just right. But, if you can get a baseline and all you have to do is adjust the gain going into your baseline setting this will speed up your mixing by an exponential amount. Can't believe I bought that sucker for $22. I don't know of any $3,000 compressor that would of helped in the way that his plugin did.
I'm really in the camp of wanting these companies to get away from trying to re-create legends and start creating their own legends. Use technology to fix the issues, not pour all that time and man power into re-creating the exact distortion levels on an 1176, that's already been done 1000x and I think they've gotten about as close as they're going to get to doing that. UA is hands down got that figured out, Softube, Plugin Alliance and T-Racks also have basically took that as far as it's going to go IMO. Izotope is one company that's doing some really amazing things out there, so is Sound Radix.
If any Plugin Devs reading this want to get into creating plugins that actually help I'd be glad to consult on something new because there are a lot of things I would love to be able to have one plugin for.
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Post by drbill on Jan 13, 2018 16:04:44 GMT -6
I think for pop, rock, country pop or dense tracks, this would work well on vocals. But it's def. hit or miss for me. I have a difficult time with it pulling up the soft parts too much - like a longish held out note that is MEANT to fade out. It's yanking it back up un-naturally. Then you have to go back and automate it back down on the long held parts which starts to get a bit unnatural sounding. I WANT it to pull up inconsistent low notes, but not faded notes, and it just can't differentiate. Automating some of the control settings might work. I haven't tried that yet. But if you want that in your face thing, it's good at that. I'm not intimate with it though. I prefer manual technique over an automated approach. This is a definite gotta try it to see it's going to help more than hurt plug.
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Post by jeromemason on Jan 13, 2018 21:24:38 GMT -6
It def takes using more than one instance to get to settle the vocal like you want. Easiest thing to do is just make a verse/chorus/bridge tracks and use it where you want every syllable heard.
I think if you sit down with it you'll find ways to make it work really well for whatever situation you have. It takes a bit of time to predict what this thing is going to do, but once you're past that it makes getting your vocal to sit exponentially faster, and it allows you to use less compression which is what I really wanted. For some reason I just never have been able to be a parallel vocal guy, now on drums, yeah I use parallel processing a lot, but on vocals or guitars etc. I just rather figure out a nice chain, it sounds more natural to me, but that's one man's opinion.
I did like using it on electric guitars a lot as well. Sometimes the percussive transition between chords gets lost on an electric track and for what I mix that really deflates the mix jumping out of the speakers. You can rig this plugin up to help bring some of that back, or if it's there you can increase it. I put it on an acoustic track and didn't even use a compressor. So this plug for what it cost's is probably one of the best deals I've ever gotten, and while it looks gimmicky or for bedroom producers I can assure you it's got a place in the pro world, no doubting it. Maybe the reason more pro's don't talk about it is of that fact, but it's surely possible it's one of their essential tools they're just keeping a lid on. I don't care how much a pro will tell you they will share every aspect of their game with you, that's just simply not true, the market is way too competitive these days, I found this out when I was coming up. The person that told me about this, I'd known for 5 years and I just now find out it's a staple in his bag? I think there's a good chance that's pretty common.
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Post by drbill on Jan 13, 2018 21:47:16 GMT -6
I've used it on guitars. Actually, mostly on guitars. For me, sometimes it's magic. Other times it just doesn't work. Pretty much like any tool.
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Post by Johnkenn on Jan 14, 2018 9:17:56 GMT -6
I think for pop, rock, country pop or dense tracks, this would work well on vocals. But it's def. hit or miss for me. I have a difficult time with it pulling up the soft parts too much - like a longish held out note that is MEANT to fade out. It's yanking it back up un-naturally. Then you have to go back and automate it back down on the long held parts which starts to get a bit unnatural sounding. I WANT it to pull up inconsistent low notes, but not faded notes, and it just can't differentiate. Automating some of the control settings might work. I haven't tried that yet. But if you want that in your face thing, it's good at that. I'm not intimate with it though. I prefer manual technique over an automated approach. This is a definite gotta try it to see it's going to help more than hurt plug. Kind of what I’ve run into. One thing I’ve found that that sped things up for me was to record/print the rider level then go back in and draw where it’s screwing up. |
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jan 14, 2018 9:29:06 GMT -6
How do you do that John? I forget..
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Post by M57 on Jan 14, 2018 10:30:18 GMT -6
How do you do that John? I forget.. I was going to bring up the same idea ..about printing. Anyway, the only way I know how to do it (in Logic, which is what I know you use too) is to mute everything but that channel and then bounce (bypassing all plugs and disabling sends) as if you were creating a mix. It creates a stereo track, which I'm not super happy about, but it works. |
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Post by drbill on Jan 14, 2018 10:44:30 GMT -6
In Pro Tools, I'd buss to an internal buss, open up a new track and set that track's in put to the same internal bus. Record. You could bounce as well.
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