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Post by ragan on Apr 18, 2018 8:31:55 GMT -6
Or you could just add a slight high shelf All of the clips I’ve heard of original U67s vs the MK67 can be brought close to inaudible difference with a small amount of EQ. Which is the same experience posted by most of the people who have them working next to each other every day, sometimes as a stereo pair. Obviously I’ve not heard the exact comparisons Roundbadge has done as I don’t think he’s posted any so can’t comment there.
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Post by dandeurloo on Apr 19, 2018 9:24:54 GMT -6
I had the max mod 67 up with original 67’s 269’s and just recently next to the re issue 67. All I can say is it sounded completely wrong,like so dark rolled off over 8k that to me it was unusable. This is what I have been saying for a long time. They are totally off of what a real 67 sounds like.
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Post by Johnkenn on Apr 19, 2018 10:10:05 GMT -6
I had the max mod 67 up with original 67’s 269’s and just recently next to the re issue 67. All I can say is it sounded completely wrong,like so dark rolled off over 8k that to me it was unusable. This is what I have been saying for a long time. They are totally off of what a real 67 sounds like. I guess that's the circuit, then, right? Because the 67 and the TLM use the same capsule supposedly...Man, you would think someone could nail the circuit. Dan? svart ?
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Post by indiehouse on Apr 19, 2018 11:19:42 GMT -6
This is what I have been saying for a long time. They are totally off of what a real 67 sounds like. I guess that's the circuit, then, right? Because the 67 and the TLM use the same capsule supposedly...Man, you would think someone could nail the circuit. Dan? svart ? That's kind of what I was asking, too. I was under the impression that the circuit is the same. The capsule is the same. Which leaves (aside from tubes) the transformer. Don't get me wrong, I really love this mic. That Siemens tube really opened things up, and with just a touch of high shelf, it sounds fantastic. I'd really like to demo a reissue 67 for a frame of reference. I'm willing to go the distance, though, and put in a "truer" transformer. Then, I gotta believe it'd be a part for part match of a 67.
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Post by svart on Apr 19, 2018 11:34:24 GMT -6
This is what I have been saying for a long time. They are totally off of what a real 67 sounds like. I guess that's the circuit, then, right? Because the 67 and the TLM use the same capsule supposedly...Man, you would think someone could nail the circuit. Dan? svart ? I'd say it's likely the interaction between the capsule and the circuit. I don't know about the U67 specifically, but a lot of the older capsules had high frequency lift/emphasis built in while the impedance conversion portion of the circuit had de-emphasis built in. when combined they had a flat output, but the noise of the conversion above the lift frequency was lowered. Think of the old tape noise reduction method.. That's why (besides being made poorly) a lot of the chinese condenser mics had too much top sizzle, because they'd do a clone of a capsule that was easier to make that had the HF emphasis, but mate it with a cheaper preamp circuit which did not have the de-emphasis circuit, so the result is a mic with too much top end. In a reciprocal way, a capsule with no HF emphasis mated to a circuit with the de-emphasis would have rolloff.. Which is where I would start looking.. EDIT: So I did find that the K67 capsule should have the HF emphasis by design. So either the capsules being used do not (Like the M7/K47 capsule) or the de-emphasis circuit is not correct.
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Post by rob61 on Apr 19, 2018 12:16:20 GMT -6
The Max Mod is supposed to work with either the TLM-67 or the U-87Ai because they both use the same capsule. Is this actually true? Furthermore, is the capsule in the original U-67 the same as the current TLM-67/U-87Ai capsule? If so, this would take it down to the transformer.
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Post by ragan on Apr 19, 2018 12:23:46 GMT -6
The Max Mod is supposed to work with either the TLM-67 or the U-87Ai because they both use the same capsule. Is this actually true? Furthermore, is the capsule in the original U-67 the same as the current TLM-67/U-87Ai capsule? If so, this would take it down to the transformer. I’ve followed this discussion (here and elsewhere) and that seems to be the consensus. The only really appreciable difference being the transformer.
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Post by EmRR on Apr 19, 2018 12:29:52 GMT -6
The transformer is the only real option. Everything else is exactly the same. Compare pics; I'd say a real 67 was pulled apart to copy the PCB's.
I believe the feedback winding is 'too good' and passes too much high freq. This is evidenced by the treble boost mod, which is the unequalized capsule sound; this bypasses the EQ path.
I'm waiting to see what a couple guys here think of my beta-mod to get the highs back. I still don't think it's done, but it's an improvement.
The real PITA is about none of the other transformer options are the same footprint, and it's a big disassembly job to get in there, with a lot of potential for damage.
I am curious about the Cinemag options, as they have an 'authentic' and an 'improved'. This suggests some actual measurements.....
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Post by roundbadge on Apr 20, 2018 10:16:37 GMT -6
The capsules and tubes are fine. We swapped tubes and it still sounded lousy,nothing like the stock vintage u67 or the reissue right next to it in the shootout. It’s the transformer. Try finding a nos one and swap it. Or stop tail chasing,sell it and start saving for the real thing
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Post by dandeurloo on Apr 20, 2018 20:43:14 GMT -6
It is the transformer and a few other small circuit tweaks if you are using a real U67 capsule (vintage or new Neumann). But the main thing is the TX. Trust me, I have done more then enough testing to know.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Apr 20, 2018 21:14:00 GMT -6
Y'now it occurred to me that many of us are suffering from a similar affliction. We know what we want, but simply can't afford it. I would love to just go and buy the new U67 reissue, and then just add a few other mics for color, like KM84's, or Soyuz 0-13 SDC's. Maybe pick something for specifically micing amps. A good U47 clone would be a nice touch, or pick your own favorite second choice of main vocal mic. Music has been so devalued, it's become demeaning. If I was paid even the same now as I was 25 years ago, I would simply buy what I really want and forget about it.
In the 80's when I was writing and producing jingles. I was fairly paid, and when I needed a home studio to work from, in one weekend, I bought a big rack, a patchbay, a U87, an RE20, a couple of SM57 and 58's, some AKG mics, a Lexicon Reverb and delay, a Yamaha reverb, Aural Exciter, an Effectron delay, two DBX compressors, Yamaha soundboard, an 8 tk. and 2 tk. tape recorder, an Adcom amp, NS-10's, a Kurzweil keyboard, Emu Proteus module, DX-7, and a drum machine, and a few other things, and I got to work.
I didn't have one hour of downtime in the next ten years. Not one minute of authorizing plug-ins, installing upgrades, navigating DAWs that have flaws, computers stalling, iLok locking me up, interfaces not integrating, researching capsules and transformers, and not one minute of even thinking about something like modifying a mic. If a mic didn't sound right, I just wouldn't buy it.
Have we lost our way, or are we just finding our way around new territory?
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Post by Vincent R. on Sept 5, 2019 16:18:29 GMT -6
Max has hinted at a “reissue mode” version of his kit as well as another option. I wonder if he’s taking the hint from people like indiehouse and offering a version with Neumann’s transformer. I’m in for that.
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Post by Quint on Sept 6, 2019 4:33:58 GMT -6
Max has hinted at a “reissue mode” version of his kit as well as another option. I wonder if he’s taking the hint from people like indiehouse and offering a version with Neumann’s transformer. I’m in for that. I've been curious about this as well.
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Post by brenta on Sept 7, 2019 12:19:15 GMT -6
That would be awesome. I love this idea, but I’m in the camp that it sounds too dark. It seems everybody agrees that it’s either as dark or darker than the darkest U67 they ever heard. I think I heard a long time ago that he was toying with the idea of a 269 drop in circuit which would be awesome as well.
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Post by chessparov on Sept 7, 2019 12:44:20 GMT -6
True, but I guess since less people are aware of the 269, I think that'd be unlikely. Chris
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Post by Vincent R. on Sept 22, 2019 20:29:49 GMT -6
True, but I guess since less people are aware of the 269, I think that'd be unlikely. Chris The 269 is a bit of it’s own beast. That said I’m still sad I had to sell my RMS 269 and would be pretty psyched if he came out with a 269 kit using one of the various replacement tubes for the AC701K; 5480, 6S6B-V, 5703, etc. Not sure how I’d pay for it, but I’d be psyched. Still no word from Max about the “reissue mode” or the other announcement. Hopefully he’ll post something soon.
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Post by chessparov on Sept 22, 2019 21:42:46 GMT -6
My limited understanding is that the 269 was designed with Broadcasting in mind. So it has more "presence", compared to the U67. Sorry if factor was already mentioned, earlier in this thread. Chris
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Post by timcampbell on Sept 23, 2019 2:23:23 GMT -6
The 269 and U67 have only the capsule and body in common. They sound completely different. If you were to describe the U67 as slightly subdued in the top end then you would have to describe the M269 as accentuaed in the top end in a wonderful way. I wouldn't ordinarily think of the U67 as my first choice as a vocal mic but I would the M269. We have 2 of them and their most common application is with vocals and acoustic instruments.
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Post by Vincent R. on Sept 23, 2019 5:36:57 GMT -6
It’s funny you say that timcampbell, but I think it’s about genre/style of music. The U67 is very commonly the first pick for a vocal mic for legit musical theater, which I record a lot. I can’t tell you how many times my 67 styled mics trumped my 49 and 47 style mics in that style. The U87 is a popular choice as well. That said, after trying an M269 I was quick to track down the only tribute mic mad of it, as I really thought it was special. I believe they also share the BV12 transformer, but use the same tube amplifier that is in the M49. It is basically an amalgam of the U67 and M49. chessparov they were designed to be compatible with the German broadcast network, which meant using the AC701k powered amplifiers. That tube imparts a smiley face into each mic they were used in, so there is more air on the top of the M269 and a fuller low mid. At least that was my experience.
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Post by chessparov on Sept 23, 2019 10:59:23 GMT -6
Thanks guys. FWIW that's why I would expect the stock U67, to be a better fit on... Singers (like me) who have a very bright upper register. I was reminded of that when singing over the weekend, with a fantastic "real" Tenor/Soul singer (Francois Dean). We can get so used to our voices, it isn't until you perform witb others... That's when you get the "reality check", of where your tone fits along the vocal spectrum. This also points to the value of having a professional Producer (not the "bedroom type" of today ). Chris P.S. Thankfully, Francois' and mine blended really well, on the dance songs we sang ala Aretha and KC & The Sunshine Band. Now if you guys only saw my dancing too!
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Post by chessparov on Sept 23, 2019 11:05:02 GMT -6
So... Then the Max Mod on a TLM 67, sounds even darker, than the stock TLM 67? (The TLM 67 IMHO sounds better on me vs. the brighter U87ai) Chris
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Post by Vincent R. on Sept 23, 2019 12:00:08 GMT -6
The Max mod stock rolls off a touch more on top and adds a small bump in the low mids when compared to a stock U67, and yes is darker than the TLM67 as well.
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Post by chessparov on Sept 23, 2019 12:23:25 GMT -6
Thanks Vincent. Given that I love quality "vintage toned" ribbons too, that might be a plus. Chris
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Post by ragan on Sept 23, 2019 13:41:09 GMT -6
It's also (unsurprisingly) a lot richer and more velvety than the TLM67. Not to slag a TLM67. I like those too.
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Post by chessparov on Sept 23, 2019 15:18:15 GMT -6
So if a Studio already has the somewhat "bright-ish" U87ai... Then the Max Mod is a an even more useful complement. I realize I may be stating the obvious. Chris
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