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Post by EmRR on Jan 13, 2018 17:20:27 GMT -6
This ^
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Post by ragan on Jan 13, 2018 17:26:41 GMT -6
That’s why I just buy my tubes from you, Christian
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Post by drsax on Jan 13, 2018 23:51:06 GMT -6
I’d be interested from bowie with his wealth of tube knowledge, how to best select tubes. I try them all one at a time by ear. It takes a lot of time and I end up with lots of tubes that are less than desirable. There's no easy way. That's why tube dealers who are actually trying to make money don't bother. The deeper you go into testing, the more problems you find and why would they sell only half their tubes when they can sell them all at a set price and just take returns from buyers who notice problems? I started out by doing exactly what you are, by listening to them one by one and picking out the good ones. This only became a business because many friends, and friends of friends, and their friends, also wanted good tubes, to the point that it became full time work 10 years ago and I had to take the screening process to another level (or three). The best advice I can give to audio engineers is not to invest too much into equipment or time because there's aspects that go far beyond anything basic gear can evaluate. Plus, without many samples to compare, you don't really have a good basis for evaluation. Further still, the market is getting more saturated with other people's rejects with every passing year. So, don't invest a lot up front and expect it to be smooth sailing. Knowledge is a huge part of it. Like most types of antiques, it's easy to get burnt. The people who know how to find the good stuff aren't selling it cheap. Most of the "tube collections" people try to sell me are just low quality tubes they picked up on ebay as "NOS" but, sadly, there's usually very little of value in them. If you do it yourself, get them cheap (if you still can) and have reasonable expectations. When I started, I had several hundred dollars in testers and thought I was ready to go. It didn't take long for me to realize how inaccurate most vintage testers are and how ineffective they are at detecting certain issues. Tubes can behave quite differently in different circuits (for those that don't know, there are many different ways to run a tube and it's not always the same from one piece of gear to another), and there are quirks inherent to all tubes that you won't understand without years of experience. For instance, a Sylvania 12AX7 will often still test "better than new" when it's aged, noisy, and dying. But, a never-used RCA 12AX7 might test "bad" even though it's essentially new with a full life ahead. A tube might scream with microphonics in one type of gear but not another. Etc, etc. There's reasons for all these things but I'd have to write a book to explain it all. And, I'd have to revise it every year with the new things I learn. Super useful info bowie - thank you so much man. Yeah. I don’t have the deep technical expertise to discern better than what I can hear, and for the time it takes to do that, it is more than worth the money to buy from someone reputable like you. I have a few tube replacements forthcoming - I’ll reach out to you when it’s time!
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Post by ragan on Jan 14, 2018 1:44:41 GMT -6
I just discovered how good the MK67 sounds with the Great River’s “loading” setting engaged. Absolutely beautiful (to me).
I think I’m there for my vocal chain. I’ve got a challenging voice to capture and I can’t imagine anything doing it better than this chain.
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Post by indiehouse on Jan 14, 2018 12:08:51 GMT -6
I just discovered how good the MK67 sounds with the Great River’s “loading” setting engaged. Absolutely beautiful (to me). I think I’m there for my vocal chain. I’ve got a challenging voice to capture and I can’t imagine anything doing it better than this chain. Does that change the impedance?
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Post by ragan on Jan 14, 2018 12:27:09 GMT -6
I just discovered how good the MK67 sounds with the Great River’s “loading” setting engaged. Absolutely beautiful (to me). I think I’m there for my vocal chain. I’ve got a challenging voice to capture and I can’t imagine anything doing it better than this chain. Does that change the impedance? It switches the resistance load on the output transformer. So yes I think? Haven’t gotten to those classes yet It has to do with the affect that engineers liked/disliked about pulling their vintage preamps out of consoles and putting them in modern rigs. GR just made he affect switchable. There is also a impedance button that changes it from 300 to 1200 ohms.
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Post by indiehouse on Jan 14, 2018 12:38:12 GMT -6
I posted this in another thread, but I'll include it here to, as it's relevant to the MK67. I'm going to build a U47 with an Aputis body and vintage style PSU case using the AMI circuit/transformer and EF800 tube. When deciding on a capsule, I was directed to this thread (https://studio939.blogspot.com/2014/11/vocal-microphone-and-capsule-testing.html), which interestingly has a MK67 in the shootout, along with Heiserman, Thiersch and Beesneez capsules in a 47 circuit. I decided to go with a hand selected Heiserman capsule that I'm picking up from someone else.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jan 14, 2018 12:43:58 GMT -6
That looks really sweet indiehouse. I'd recommend the AMI designs to anyone who asked. I'm no expert, but there's something about the detail that comes through with the AMI circuits that other brands like Haufe just don't get. I hope it all comes together for you on this. I enjoy this from afar, me, I prefer something to sound right from the beginning. Unfortunately, that usually starts at $3,500. * Just listened to the tracks, that was really cool. I'd choose the Heiserman too, but the Thiersch was proper too. The Heiserman had that up front honky sound of a U47, and was a little bigger sounding, which I like.. It's down to taste at this level of course, the Thiersch was excellent, but the BeezNeez sounded muffled in comparison. I have the Warm U47 design mic here now. I've tracked my friend's vocals twice, and he got great results, it's very smooth, crisp and clean. I'd need some other U47 style mics to compare properly, but it sure isn't one of those cheap capsule sounding mics that look pretty and sound harsh. I'll see if I can find a track with the Chandler this week and try a vocal, just to hear them side by side. Attachment Deleted
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Post by EmRR on Jan 14, 2018 13:01:51 GMT -6
Does that change the impedance? It switches the resistance load on the output transformer. So yes I think? Haven’t gotten to those classes yet It has to do with the affect that engineers liked/disliked about pulling their vintage preamps out of consoles and putting them in modern rigs. GR just made he affect switchable. There is also a impedance button that changes it from 300 to 1200 ohms. I don't know all the specifics there, but the lighter output load setting may have a treble boost into 10K/etc. It's there so you can match to true 600 ohm inputs (pultec) or to Hi-Z inputs, or use it for effect.
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Post by indiehouse on Jan 14, 2018 13:55:29 GMT -6
That looks really sweet indiehouse. I'd recommend the AMI designs to anyone who asked. I'm no expert, but there's something about the detail that comes through with the AMI circuits that other brands like Haufe just don't get. I hope it all comes together for you on this. I enjoy this from afar, me, I prefer something to sound right from the beginning. Unfortunately, that usually starts at $3,500. * Just listened to the tracks, that was really cool. I'd choose the Heiserman too, but the Thiersch was proper too. The Heiserman had that up front honky sound of a U47, and was a little bigger sounding, which I like.. It's down to taste at this level of course, the Thiersch was excellent, but the BeezNeez sounded muffled in comparison. I have the Warm U47 design mic here now. I've tracked my friend's vocals twice, and he got great results, it's very smooth, crisp and clean. I'd need some other U47 style mics to compare properly, but it sure isn't one of those cheap capsule sounding mics that look pretty and sound harsh. I'll see if I can find a track with the Chandler this week and try a vocal, just to hear them side by side. View AttachmentYeah, I was originally set on a Thiersch, just because it seems like it was the thing to do compared to other builds. But that just may be remnants of internet folk lore and past times when there were fewer options. Plus, the Thiersch cap and mount costs twice as much as this Heiserman I'm getting. Not sure is there's a waitlist for the Thiersch, but I could have the Heiserman in a matter of days.
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Post by ragan on Jan 14, 2018 13:58:24 GMT -6
It switches the resistance load on the output transformer. So yes I think? Haven’t gotten to those classes yet It has to do with the affect that engineers liked/disliked about pulling their vintage preamps out of consoles and putting them in modern rigs. GR just made he affect switchable. There is also a impedance button that changes it from 300 to 1200 ohms. I don't know all the specifics there, but the lighter output load setting may have a treble boost into 10K/etc. It's there so you can match to true 600 ohm inputs (pultec) or to Hi-Z inputs, or use it for effect. Which setting should be brighter in theory?
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Post by EmRR on Jan 14, 2018 14:25:56 GMT -6
I don't know all the specifics there, but the lighter output load setting may have a treble boost into 10K/etc. It's there so you can match to true 600 ohm inputs (pultec) or to Hi-Z inputs, or use it for effect. Which setting should be brighter in theory? the lighter load.
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Post by ragan on Jan 14, 2018 16:44:47 GMT -6
Which setting should be brighter in theory? the lighter load. So I think that jives with what I'm hearing. Though it doesn't just sound like a HF contour difference. I hear it in the way the hi mids/hi's handle transients. It's just a touch snappier in the normal mode. When the 'loading' button is engaged, it smooths things out a bit. It also seems to affect the general relationship the mids have to the hi's to me but that could be illusory. Either way, I like it on my voice. This is all apparently because the transformer rings without the 600k load, is that right?
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Post by EmRR on Jan 14, 2018 16:48:58 GMT -6
So I think that jives with what I'm hearing. Though it doesn't just sound like a HF contour difference. I hear it in the way the hi mids/hi's handle transients. It's just a touch snappier in the normal mode. When the 'loading' button is engaged, it smooths things out a bit. It also seems to affect the general relationship the mids have to the hi's to me but that could be illusory. Either way, I like it on my voice. This is all apparently because the transformer rings without the 600R load, is that right? Right. I've heard cases where this load will make a cymbal in a mix increase/diminish in forwardness. Measuring the equipment shows virtually no change in response, like 0.1dB at 20kHz. There's usually a greater measured phase change than response change at that part of the curve.
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Post by ragan on Jan 14, 2018 17:06:16 GMT -6
Weird curiosity here: In your quoted post of mine it says "600R" load, but in my post it says "600k", which is what I typed.
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Post by EmRR on Jan 14, 2018 18:29:13 GMT -6
yep; 600R is right, 600K is 1000x too large.
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Post by ragan on Jan 14, 2018 19:49:49 GMT -6
yep; 600R is right, 600K is 1000x too large. Oh! Well thanks for the fix.
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Post by guitfiddler on Jan 15, 2018 4:13:09 GMT -6
I absolutely love the Great River stuff as well! I need to try that Great River 32 EQ with the Mku67, also looking at some lilpeqrs!
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Post by indiehouse on Apr 16, 2018 17:23:32 GMT -6
Does anyone have any experience with a Haufe bv12? I have a lead on a custom Haufe bv12 supposedly built with original lamination materials. I’m admittedly not knowledgeable about this stuff. Seems like it could be worth a shot. Priced similarly to an AMI bv12. EmRR dandeurloo sll
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Post by roundbadge on Apr 17, 2018 15:39:17 GMT -6
I had the max mod 67 up with original 67’s 269’s and just recently next to the re issue 67. All I can say is it sounded completely wrong,like so dark rolled off over 8k that to me it was unusable.
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Post by indiehouse on Apr 17, 2018 20:10:44 GMT -6
I had the max mod 67 up with original 67’s 269’s and just recently next to the re issue 67. All I can say is it sounded completely wrong,like so dark rolled off over 8k that to me it was unusable. You know, I thought that as well, but ended up swapping tubes that made a huge difference in that region. Never would have thought a tube could have made that much of a difference. I've also heard a transformer swap takes the mic up a level. Pretty happy with the new Siemens tube over the Telefunken, as is, though. Really opened that top end right up.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Apr 17, 2018 20:30:39 GMT -6
Indiehouse, I had two Thiersch M7 capsules, blue and red. In the same mic, I had gone from the AMI BV08 and the Haufe equivalent. I felt the AMI was better, more low level detail, so I could sing softer at times and the words still cut through. Don't know about BV12's though.
My buddy bought the Warm WA47 I had here to demo. His voice was very compatible. We tracked a vocal and thought that maybe it was a little grainy, but nothing to really worry about. The next session there was an annoying hum. Warm quickly sent us a new tube, and voila! it was like a different mic, very similar to a U47. He's very happy now and will be keeping the WA47.
Just goes to show again what a difference a tube can make.
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Post by roundbadge on Apr 17, 2018 20:44:16 GMT -6
I had the max mod 67 up with original 67’s 269’s and just recently next to the re issue 67. All I can say is it sounded completely wrong,like so dark rolled off over 8k that to me it was unusable. You know, I thought that as well, but ended up swapping tubes that made a huge difference in that region. Never would have thought a tube could have made that much of a difference. I've also heard a transformer swap takes the mic up a level. Pretty happy with the new Siemens tube over the Telefunken, as is, though. Really opened that top end right up. Tubes were swapped with not a big change. Something else was going on.serious hf roll off. and this was two different times I compared it over a period of time. yeah maybe the transformer.
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Post by indiehouse on Apr 18, 2018 4:50:53 GMT -6
You know, I thought that as well, but ended up swapping tubes that made a huge difference in that region. Never would have thought a tube could have made that much of a difference. I've also heard a transformer swap takes the mic up a level. Pretty happy with the new Siemens tube over the Telefunken, as is, though. Really opened that top end right up. Tubes were swapped with not a big change. Something else was going on.serious hf roll off. and this was two different times I compared it over a period of time. yeah maybe the transformer. I hear you. I initially swapped the stock PF86 with a NOS Tfunk EF86 and the difference was subtle. Then went to the Siemens and the top finally opened up! I wish I could afford/justify a $7k mic (if I’m really thinking about it, I could probably sell my MK67 and Flea47 and about $2k worth of other mics). But if I could just tweak this MK67 into perfection, that would be ideal for me. I mean, I’m already using the same capsule as the new 67 (and people say that’s the biggest influence on the sound of the mic). I’m assuming the circuit itself is correct. Tubes can be rolled, which just leaves the transformer. If I can get this thing dialed in, I’d be coming in at less than half the price of the reissue (and not have to sell a bunch of mics).
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Post by Martin John Butler on Apr 18, 2018 7:24:26 GMT -6
Maybe you should talk to Shannon at Mic Rehab Indie.
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