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Post by cowboycoalminer on Jan 6, 2018 12:56:50 GMT -6
I've been thinking lately about the mere esthetic of making music with an interesting sonic pallet. The idea here is that I notice I will listen to song no matter what it's about or who is the performer if the song is drawing me in sonically. Somewhat the way I'll stare at certain pictures sometimes for minutes without knowing why until I finally conclude that the picture is beautiful. In another thread a few days ago massivemastering got me thinking on this... clean, interesting recordings. I recently put my hand to this task and with minimal instrumentation using careful planning before hitting the record button, I became very pleased with the result. What say you guys about the value of a beautiful sonic pallet over song choice etc? I know there is a fine line there but I always go back to the Liquid Spirit album by Gregory Porter when thinking along these lines. The songs on that album are an afterthought. It wouldn't matter if he was singing the phone book in order I'd still listen. The sonics draw me in and keep me there. If it weren't such a beautifly recorded album, I wouldn't listen past a few seconds. The songs make no sense to me but I don't care. This point speaks directly to our craft. There are those who say a great song will always rise to the top and get the respect it deserves. Lately I'm of the camp that believes it can be the best song in the world but if the recording doesn't draw me in the first few seconds, I won't stick around to find out. Basics work. Gain staging, thoughtful equipment choices etc. Let's talk about this.
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Post by nick8801 on Jan 6, 2018 13:36:30 GMT -6
Maybe it's my OCD, but I love one take tracks. It just feels better. Get the tone right, get the performance right and just lay it down. Come mix time just balance the faders. I heard that when Timbaland makes his beats he actually plays through the whole track instead of looping in order to get a more human feel. I totally relate to that kinda stuff. I think the arrangement is super important for that type of thing too. You gotta have room for all the parts to sing. I've pissed off so many guitar players telling them that strumming chords is boring and too busy. So basically I think that the way the song is performed can lend to those sonics as well. I am an audiophile of sorts, but it's more about the emotion the music is transferring. If there is a feeling coming out of the speakers, then I'm in. I also have a love hate relationship with extra loud masters. In some respects (bad systems, playlist culture) they totally work in pushing the music forward. On the other hand, I LOVE tracks that aren't so edgy, that I can turn them up. So many loud masters just hurt when you turn up the volume. Kind of rambling here, but yes....it all comes down to a good feeling(sonics)coming out of the speakers. Whether that's the song, the recording, the arrangement, or usually a combination of all that, then I'm all in.
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Post by sean on Jan 6, 2018 14:04:11 GMT -6
There’s a large part of me that wishes I could listen to and enjoy music the way I did before I made engineering my career. I could just enjoy bands for the songwriting, the guitar playing, or the energy. Now it’s hard for me to hear past a shitty recording. So, for me, it’s upsetting that I could miss out on a great song because sometimes I can’t listen past the sonics
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jan 6, 2018 15:42:18 GMT -6
An interesting arrangement, or an interesting sound will pull me in for a little while, but if the song is going nowhere, I lose interest. What I admire the most is when an album has a distinct sound through the entire album. Roxy Music’s Avalon is one example, it’s a very smooth ride through the lush landscape. Classic music like Darkside of the Moon managed To do both, be interesting sonically And still be truly great music Beck’s Sea Change is one of the most beautifully recorded albums you’ll ever hear, but you can barely remember a song from it, it’s almost like a soundtrack.
This happens to audiophiles sometimes, they catch themselves listening to a record just to enjoy how it sounds.
i’ll admit that it isn’t easy to listen to a poorly recorded song, Even if it’s a pretty good song.
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Post by Guitar on Jan 6, 2018 15:46:28 GMT -6
There’s a large part of me that wishes I could listen to and enjoy music the way I did before I made engineering my career. I could just enjoy bands for the songwriting, the guitar playing, or the energy. Now it’s hard for me to hear past a shitty recording. So, for me, it’s upsetting that I could miss out on a great song because I can listen pst the sonics sometimes This is it to me. If I catch myself listening to the gear, and not the music, just go ahead and shoot me with a gun. I love great production as much as the next engineer, but get me a real musician, and let's think about it. Obviously the monkey's uncle is a brilliant artist with brilliant recording. You can call those reference albums.
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Post by timcampbell on Jan 6, 2018 16:48:13 GMT -6
Nitin Sawhney's music is always interesting whether it's him or Jeff Beck playing it.
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Post by cowboycoalminer on Jan 6, 2018 16:48:28 GMT -6
I get all this. An example would be a piece of music that our friend Sal posted on FB not long ago that really got to me emotionally. Sounded like it was recorded through an Iphone but I didn't care. The emotion drew me in. I thanked him for posting it. BTW, Sal is as good as producer and recordist as you'll find. This recording I speak of was an impromptu peice he recorded on the fly. But that's not exactly what I'm talking about. And I'm certainly NOT talking about being a gear snob who must have the highest priced gear on the planet. I guess I'm just rambling about taking time to get it right instead of hurrying to get something "out there". I've been guilty of this so many times and it has cost me.
I'm rethinking all that lately.
i.e. smoltz (Boston) Something to be proud of.
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Post by cowboycoalminer on Jan 6, 2018 16:54:51 GMT -6
Nitin Sawhney's music is always interesting whether it's him or Jeff Beck playing it. Haha. And you make my point, Tim. Didn't understand one word of that but I couldn't stop listening. Perfect.
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Post by Guitar on Jan 6, 2018 16:58:34 GMT -6
I get all this. An example would be a piece of music that our friend Sal posted on FB not long ago that really got to me emotionally. Sounded like it was recorded through an Iphone but I didn't care. The emotion drew me in. I thanked him for posting it. BTW, Sal is as good as producer and recordist as you'll find. This recording I speak of was an impromptu peice he recorded on the fly. But that's not exactly what I'm talking about. And I'm certainly NOT talking about being a gear snob who must have the highest priced gear on the planet. I guess I'm just rambling about taking time to get it right instead of hurrying to get something "out there". I've been guilty of this so many times and it has cost me. I'm rethinking all that lately. i.e. smoltz (Boston) Something to be proud of. I am rethinking the same thing. It is kind of funny how things can get rushed and kind-of-bad sounding. I think that's a common pitfall that should be learned to be avoided. A good musical performance is a deal-breaker, or maker, but a bad sounding version of that is the other deal-breaker. It's like having to pass a test twice.
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Post by ragan on Jan 6, 2018 17:22:39 GMT -6
I have mostly lost the ability to differentiate between the two things. My brain (when it's not taken up with kids and school and whatnot) is thinking about both the composition of and the sonics of music incessantly, constantly. The intersection of the content and the sonics became larger and larger for me until the overlap became all encompassing.
Or, as Marshall McCluhan would say, "the medium is the message".
It's not that I don't experience the difference between the content and the sonic package it's delivered in, it's more that there are a million combinations of them and a million different angles from which I listen and I got exhausted trying to keep track and now I just listen to what moves me and don't listen to what doesn't. If that makes any sense.
A couple (current) artists that come to mind for me when I think "compelling, interesting sonics" are Beck and Tame Impala. I friggin' adore Kevin Parker's (Tame Impala) drum sounds. And the fact that he sounds like John Lennon fronting the Flaming Lips is also cool.
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Post by ragan on Jan 6, 2018 17:36:06 GMT -6
And on the rock side of things, I think Josh Homme is a sonic genius. Them Crooked Vultures (Homme, Dave Grohl, John Paul Jones) and all of his Queens of the Stone Age records are super compelling and intriguing to me, sonically.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2018 17:39:02 GMT -6
If we are allowed to post examples, then this is what tickles my auditory fancy on many occasions. Pulls me right in and keeps me there. It's ambient, so no regular song structures or vocals here. Matt is a good friend and a total stickler for quality sound. virtual1.bandcamp.com/track/nomad
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Post by cowboycoalminer on Jan 6, 2018 17:40:34 GMT -6
Wow ragan. Great stuff! How in the world do they get that kick to sit like that but still be so out front??? Wow.
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Post by ragan on Jan 6, 2018 17:44:03 GMT -6
And CAKE! They are one of the most sonically interesting bands I've ever come across. I love 'em. They just sound like...CAKE. Brilliant, simple arrangements and super dry, organic, well thought out tones. Plus John McCrea is just a compositional, characterful badass.
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Post by ragan on Jan 6, 2018 17:44:38 GMT -6
Wow ragan . Great stuff! How in the world do they get that kick to sit like that but still be so out front??? Wow. Which track you talking, Herbie?
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Post by timcampbell on Jan 6, 2018 17:47:51 GMT -6
I love Cake
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Post by ragan on Jan 6, 2018 17:51:38 GMT -6
And for something more stripped down and live feeling, I love this track. Brandi Carlile is a local gal with one of the biggest, most expressive voices I've ever heard. This stuff was mostly cut live, T. Bone Burnett producing. Matt Chamberlain on drums, who's also local and who is a session monster. I love these sonics.
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Post by cowboycoalminer on Jan 6, 2018 18:18:13 GMT -6
Wow ragan . Great stuff! How in the world do they get that kick to sit like that but still be so out front??? Wow. Which track you talking, Herbie? Tame Impala
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Post by c0rtland on Jan 6, 2018 18:36:48 GMT -6
Gonna throw unknown mortal orchestra out there. And the microphones. Specifically the glow pt2. Mount eerie 'winds poem' 'clear moon' and 'sauna'. Those are wonderful.
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Post by ragan on Jan 6, 2018 18:44:50 GMT -6
Which track you talking, Herbie? Tame Impala Gotcha. Yeah his drums are very distinctly him and they’re awesome. One of his secret weapons is reputedly a DBX 165a.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jan 6, 2018 21:45:33 GMT -6
Can't wait to listen to these tracks tomorrow.
I'm caught between a rock and a hard place with my own sonics. I've learned the basics for getting decent sound these last few years, but I need to move on with new material, so I'm going to release my next album on Feb 23rd, ( if putting it online can be called 'releasing"), even though some tracks are just way overcooked. It took me forever to get into my bones that going past digital zero isn't the same as doing that to tape. I knew intellectually it was wrong, but I went ahead with it anyway.
In a perfect world, I'd fix every glitch, but I'll just try my best to make the next record sound better.
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Post by matt@IAA on Jan 6, 2018 21:51:18 GMT -6
Gotcha. Yeah his drums are very distinctly him and they’re awesome. One of his secret weapons is reputedly a DBX 165a. I think in videos I’ve seen of them they typically sport a mono overhead setup.
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Post by matt@IAA on Jan 6, 2018 21:55:15 GMT -6
Check out Buddy Clyro. I’m pretty sure they’re incapable of a simple 4/4 time signature haha.
The continuous handoff of the tremelo/ guitar locked part in the background of this is awesome
This is in 5/4 the whole time
This bridge drops a beat twice for no reason.
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Post by Johnkenn on Jan 6, 2018 21:58:30 GMT -6
Still think the song trumps everything. I’d rather hear an excellent song with a shitty recording than a perfect recording of a shitty song.
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Post by ragan on Jan 6, 2018 23:05:50 GMT -6
Gotcha. Yeah his drums are very distinctly him and they’re awesome. One of his secret weapons is reputedly a DBX 165a. I think in videos I’ve seen of them they typically sport a mono overhead setup. You've seen studio footage of Parker laying down drums? Or maybe you mean live. His drum mic positioning has been often debated and he's pretty cagey about it. Best I've been able to triangulate is that he's got a Rode K2 as a mono OH and a 57 on kick. And something, I think a 421, off to the side of the snare shell. He's confirmed those basics before. But if you've seen footage, hook me up!
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