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Post by jcoutu1 on Dec 26, 2017 11:56:36 GMT -6
I want to add a video element to my studio. It seems like GoPro style cameras are great bang for the buck. High resolution, wide angle, and fairly cheap. This knock off seems to have pretty solid reviews. www.amazon.com/AKASO-EK7000-Sports-Waterproof-Camcorder/dp/B01HGM33HGAnyone used this or a GoPro or similar indoors? It seems like a standard camcorder will cost more money and have lower resolution. Is there something different I should think about?
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Post by donr on Dec 26, 2017 12:22:37 GMT -6
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Post by rowmat on Dec 26, 2017 12:47:11 GMT -6
The Musician's Friend YouTube clip looks very compressed even at 1080. It may just be the camera settings or processing but if not it's full of artifacts and missing a lot of detail.
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Post by jontheriffer on Dec 26, 2017 12:51:26 GMT -6
I did and I quit. Watched Bohemian Rhapsody. Amazing
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 14,961
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Post by ericn on Dec 26, 2017 15:13:24 GMT -6
In the end most of the better lowend vidiots I know use DSLR's because it comes down to the quality of optics's!
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Post by rowmat on Dec 26, 2017 15:26:25 GMT -6
In the end most of the better lowend vidiots I know use DSLR's because it comes down to the quality of optics's! I have three old Panasonic GH2's which are so-so for stills but excellent for video especially with a firmware hack that increases the bitrate. I use mostly old Pentax prime lenses with adapters which are great. I'm still amazed by the image quality that these rather cheap, small cameras produce.
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Post by wiz on Dec 26, 2017 15:34:45 GMT -6
I want to add a video element to my studio. It seems like GoPro style cameras are great bang for the buck. High resolution, wide angle, and fairly cheap. This knock off seems to have pretty solid reviews. www.amazon.com/AKASO-EK7000-Sports-Waterproof-Camcorder/dp/B01HGM33HGAnyone used this or a GoPro or similar indoors? It seems like a standard camcorder will cost more money and have lower resolution. Is there something different I should think about? Video recorded on iPhone 5, Canon HFS20, iPad 4, Canon EOS DSLR. Video editing software Final Cut Pro X I reckon lighting matters more than the cameras. Google, 3 point lighting , grab some cheapish soft box lights off eBay.. cheers Wiz
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Post by rowmat on Dec 26, 2017 16:01:26 GMT -6
Wiz is correct as far as lighting is concerned.
I have worked as a photographer and film gaffer in another life.
Light is to a camera as sound is to a microphone.
A bad sounding room will produce bad reflections and that's what the mic will capture.
Bad lighting will produce bad images and that's what the camera will capture.
Here's a Film Noir style short film (16 minutes) I gaffered on (lit) a few years ago.
The entire set was built from scratch to mimic a 1940's hotel set somewhere in wartime Europe.
The camera was a Sony FS700 digital cinemcam with the footage converted to B&W in post production and a film grain plugin was used. A Tiffen Pro Mist optical filter was also used to provide some film halation effects which causes the light to diffuse at the junction of high contrast areas.
The purpose was to mimic B&W film as closely as possible. I didn't shoot it, I just lit it.
If you think money is tight in the music recording business you should try the indie film business!
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Post by rowmat on Dec 26, 2017 16:56:38 GMT -6
In the end most of the better lowend vidiots I know use DSLR's because it comes down to the quality of optics's! It also depends whether you're looking for a more 'filmic' look or a straight vlog (video blog) style. Most of these small fixed lens cameras won't allow much (if any) control over depth of field which allows you to put the non important elements of a scene out of focus if desired. This can make a shot visually more interesting but usually requires a camera with either a zoom lens and aperture control or a camera that can take a variety of different lenses. Here's a single frame grab (see below) from the 1080P video stream of a firmware hacked Panasonic GH2 fitted with a manual 85mm prime lens @ F2.8. I had to use about 6 stops of neutral density filtration to be able to maintain the correct video shutter speed (1/50th sec) at F2.8 on a bright day. I also had an assistant using a reflector to bounce some reflected light into his face which was heavily shaded due to the overhead sun. The blurry background is due to the wide aperture the lens was set to. This kind of effect would be impossible with most small wide angle cameras. Like audio it all depends how deep you want to go down the video/film rabbit hole! peter-1 copy.jpg (685.57 KB)
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Post by jcoutu1 on Dec 27, 2017 0:19:35 GMT -6
In the end most of the better lowend vidiots I know use DSLR's because it comes down to the quality of optics's! It also depends whether you're looking for a more 'filmic' look or a straight vlog (video blog) style. Most of these small fixed lens cameras won't allow much (if any) control over depth of field which allows you to put the non important elements of a scene out of focus if desired. This can make a shot visually more interesting but usually requires a camera with either a zoom lens and aperture control or a camera that can take a variety of different lenses. Here's a single frame grab (see below) from the 1080P video stream of a firmware hacked Panasonic GH2 fitted with a manual 85mm prime lens @ F2.8. I had to use about 6 stops of neutral density filtration to be able to maintain the correct video shutter speed (1/50th sec) at F2.8 on a bright day. I also had an assistant using a reflector to bounce some reflected light into his face which was heavily shaded due to the overhead sun. The blurry background is due to the wide aperture the lens was set to. This kind of effect would be impossible with most small wide angle cameras. Like audio it all depends how deep you want to go down the video/film rabbit hole! View AttachmentGreat photo. I can't go deep down the hole. Basically hoping to look down the hole from above, maybe with a better flashlight. I did this last week with my phone. Was hoping to combine with still footage, but different takes were too far off to mesh, at least with the minimal effort I put in. I'm hoping to have a pair of inexpensive, but nice quality cameras to have a couple shots. One still from a nice angle and one to move around. I want to keep the lighting about where I'm at though, to keep the vibe of the session.
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Post by wiz on Dec 27, 2017 0:33:05 GMT -6
Final Cut Pro X handles the multi camera thing flawlessly.... and you will be able to do the cameras and your mixed audio painlessly.
cheers
Wiz
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Post by rowmat on Dec 27, 2017 1:06:06 GMT -6
It also depends whether you're looking for a more 'filmic' look or a straight vlog (video blog) style. Most of these small fixed lens cameras won't allow much (if any) control over depth of field which allows you to put the non important elements of a scene out of focus if desired. This can make a shot visually more interesting but usually requires a camera with either a zoom lens and aperture control or a camera that can take a variety of different lenses. Here's a single frame grab (see below) from the 1080P video stream of a firmware hacked Panasonic GH2 fitted with a manual 85mm prime lens @ F2.8. I had to use about 6 stops of neutral density filtration to be able to maintain the correct video shutter speed (1/50th sec) at F2.8 on a bright day. I also had an assistant using a reflector to bounce some reflected light into his face which was heavily shaded due to the overhead sun. The blurry background is due to the wide aperture the lens was set to. This kind of effect would be impossible with most small wide angle cameras. Like audio it all depends how deep you want to go down the video/film rabbit hole! Great photo. I can't go deep down the hole. Basically hoping to look down the hole from above, maybe with a better flashlight. I did this last week with my phone. Was hoping to combine with still footage, but different takes were too far off to mesh, at least with the minimal effort I put in. I'm hoping to have a pair of inexpensive, but nice quality cameras to have a couple shots. One still from a nice angle and one to move around. I want to keep the lighting about where I'm at though, to keep the vibe of the session.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Dec 27, 2017 6:25:03 GMT -6
Final Cut Pro X handles the multi camera thing flawlessly.... and you will be able to do the cameras and your mixed audio painlessly. cheers Wiz I've got FCPx, so that's good news. What's the trick for getting multi cameras sync'd? And getting the pro tools audio sync'd?
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Post by mulmany on Dec 27, 2017 12:57:32 GMT -6
Time code master. If you go DSLR there are some cool sync devices.
Or you just let it fly and sync every shot in FCP. Unless they fixed FCP, there are some known audio sync issues.
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Post by jayson on Dec 27, 2017 14:22:16 GMT -6
I'v tried doing this sort of thing with both a Go Pro Hero 5 and a Canon 7D. Things you have to remember with a GoPro: -The optics you have is ALL you have - there are no other options for lenses. -The batteries last an hour regardless of which mode you may be using and the camera cannot be plugged in for continuous power. Make sure you get the multiple battery charging unit and extra batteries! -This may have changed since I bought mine, but there is no way to record line audio to it - only via the onboard microphone. You can't purchase any kind of XLR input box for it. -There's not a lot of ways to get a signal out of it on the fly, so if you want to use something like an Atmos recorder or a Ki Pro you're pretty much hosed.
There may very well be better products in the GoPro clone department at this point, but personally I'd say a DSLR that does HD video will give you more capability to customize the camera for how you want to use it- especially with right lenses and audio input peripherals.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Dec 27, 2017 14:32:58 GMT -6
I'v tried doing this sort of thing with both a Go Pro Hero 5 and a Canon 7D. Things you have to remember with a GoPro: -The optics you have is ALL you have - there are no other options for lenses. -The batteries last an hour regardless of which mode you may be using and the camera cannot be plugged in for continuous power. Make sure you get the multiple battery charging unit and extra batteries! -This may have changed since I bought mine, but there is no way to record line audio to it - only via the onboard microphone. You can't purchase any kind of XLR input box for it. -There's not a lot of ways to get a signal out of it on the fly, so if you want to use something like an Atmos recorder or a Ki Pro you're pretty much hosed. There may very well be better products in the GoPro clone department at this pont, but personally I'd say a DSLR that does HD video will give you more capability to customize the camera for how you want to use it with right lenses and audio input peripherals. The power seems like the biggest issue with these go pro style units. I'm going to be doing the audio in post, so that's less of a concern for me. I almost wonder if I should grab a couple used phones and see how they do. I just pulled out my old LG G4. I bet that'll shoot some great stuff.
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Post by wiz on Dec 27, 2017 15:14:10 GMT -6
Final Cut Pro X handles the multi camera thing flawlessly.... and you will be able to do the cameras and your mixed audio painlessly. cheers Wiz I've got FCPx, so that's good news. What's the trick for getting multi cameras sync'd? And getting the pro tools audio sync'd? Cheers Wiz
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Post by bluegrassdan on Dec 27, 2017 17:13:50 GMT -6
Wiz is correct as far as lighting is concerned. I have worked as a photographer and film gaffer in another life. Light is to a camera as sound is to a microphone. A bad sounding room will produce bad reflections and that's what the mic will capture. Bad lighting will produce bad images and that's what the camera will capture. Here's a Film Noir style short film (16 minutes) I gaffered on (lit) a few years ago. The entire set was built from scratch to mimic a 1940's hotel set somewhere in wartime Europe. The camera was a Sony FS700 digital cinemcam with the footage converted to B&W in post production and a film grain plugin was used. A Tiffen Pro Mist optical filter was also used to provide some film halation effects which causes the light to diffuse at the junction of high contrast areas. The purpose was to mimic B&W film as closely as possible. I didn't shoot it, I just lit it. If you think money is tight in the music recording business you should try the indie film business! That is an AWESOME film! Thanks for sharing.
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Post by Henry_Berg on Dec 28, 2017 10:46:20 GMT -6
"Hello, I am a Filmmaker and want to shoot a music video for a band I know. They don't have any song recorded yet, so I am asking what's the best good cheap microphone I can buy, so that I can get the audio for the song for the Music video?"
See the analogy?
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Post by jcoutu1 on Dec 28, 2017 17:00:32 GMT -6
"Hello, I am a Filmmaker and want to shoot a music video for a band I know. They don't have any song recorded yet, so I am asking what's the best good cheap microphone I can buy, so that I can get the audio for the song for the Music video?" See the analogy? I see the analogy, sure, but I think the quality of the video I posted above is pretty decent and that's just using a phone. I'm not trying to do full blown music videos, just some decent capture of "Live in studio" performances. Shot some more video today with a pair of phones. Curious how that will turn out.
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Post by rowmat on Dec 28, 2017 18:12:45 GMT -6
Wiz is correct as far as lighting is concerned. I have worked as a photographer and film gaffer in another life. Light is to a camera as sound is to a microphone. A bad sounding room will produce bad reflections and that's what the mic will capture. Bad lighting will produce bad images and that's what the camera will capture. Here's a Film Noir style short film (16 minutes) I gaffered on (lit) a few years ago. The entire set was built from scratch to mimic a 1940's hotel set somewhere in wartime Europe. The camera was a Sony FS700 digital cinemcam with the footage converted to B&W in post production and a film grain plugin was used. A Tiffen Pro Mist optical filter was also used to provide some film halation effects which causes the light to diffuse at the junction of high contrast areas. The purpose was to mimic B&W film as closely as possible. I didn't shoot it, I just lit it. If you think money is tight in the music recording business you should try the indie film business! That is an AWESOME film! Thanks for sharing. Cheers. It was one of a few I worked on. Mostly lighting but also a little location sound work. With the falling cost of gear, camera's, video production software etc it's quite possible to pull off pretty good looking video's for low cost if you spend some time learning a few the basics. I came from more of a photography background and have always been interested in film making. I started experimenting with video when I first bought a DLSR about 8 years that had video capability. Over time I put a lighting kit together and got some portable sound recording gear and then through a connection with our studio found myself doing basically unpaid work (some costs were covered) for a small indie film production company mainly as a gaffer. My pay off was getting some experience on a film set and I was literally learning as I worked but I knew enough of the basics to more-a-less 'bluff' my way through. Anyway it was fun and I learnt a lot.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Dec 28, 2017 18:41:34 GMT -6
Welp, I ordered a "refurbished" EK7000 (like the original post) on eBay for $32. For that price, worst case I give it to my kids to f around with.
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Post by rowmat on Dec 28, 2017 19:06:35 GMT -6
Welp, I ordered a "refurbished" EK7000 (like the original post) on eBay for $32. For that price, worst case I give it to my kids to f around with. You can't complain about the price!
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Post by mdmitch2 on Dec 28, 2017 19:16:30 GMT -6
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Post by mdmitch2 on Dec 28, 2017 19:22:36 GMT -6
Here’s an example: The occasional fixed position from the back is the v770. The rest of the shots are GH4’s. It’s not the best advertisement for the V770 because the GH4 is so much better... but it’ll give you an idea.
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