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Post by Martin John Butler on Dec 18, 2017 15:11:52 GMT -6
Thanks guys. Forgive my lack of knowledge here, but how was the preamp in a Neve console different than their separate pres?
When we speak of "classic" recordings done with Neve's , weren't many classic albums done with whatever preamp was in the Neve console?
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Post by jcoutu1 on Dec 18, 2017 15:17:38 GMT -6
Thanks guys. Forgive my lack of knowledge here, but how was the preamp in a Neve console different than their separate pres? When we speak of "classic" recordings done with Neve's , weren't many classic albums done with whatever preamp was in the Neve console? The Classic Neve sound you're talking about is from an 80 series console. The ones for $10k are like comparing a Chevy Aveo to a Corvette.
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Post by notneeson on Dec 18, 2017 15:22:53 GMT -6
Thanks guys. Forgive my lack of knowledge here, but how was the preamp in a Neve console different than their separate pres? When we speak of "classic" recordings done with Neve's , weren't many classic albums done with whatever preamp was in the Neve console? It depends on which era console you're talking about, and in some cases which modules it has. Something like a Neve 33114 module is different than, but much more similar to a 1073 than the later stuff, like a VR channel for instance.
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Post by EmRR on Dec 18, 2017 17:12:16 GMT -6
fantasy chain acquired. well worth the savings and years upon years of trading up. however, my new fantasy is an op-6 with a 44. maybe follow that chain with a 1176 and a lang... ? this shit never stops, does it? Nope. That's why I have that RCA BN-2A waiting for you in the classifieds.....
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Post by cowboycoalminer on Dec 18, 2017 17:51:40 GMT -6
I have a question about this whole idea of separate preamps. I've seen some reconditioned Neve consoles for $10,,000- $12,000. That 1081 costs $6,500. Would it be smarter to get a console, and have even more Never pres and EQ's? Or is it that specific 1081 you'd need? Not the same thing. You're not seeing a Neve console with 1081's for 10k. Right. And Flecther always swears that the outboard units sound better than the console to his ears. I have no way of knowing as I've never been in the same room as a 1081 equipt console. But I have used the AMS boxes. They are stunning.
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Post by rocinante on Dec 18, 2017 20:04:46 GMT -6
I've used an 8078 and it was the best easiest mix I ever did. I could not directly compare but there was no need for outboard pres. I have close to the 'dream' but the dream is at least 10 channels of neve in the form of a console. So far 2 x Capi vp28 2 x 1272 2 x 1290 (diy) 2 x tube (diy but delicious) 4 x 312 (diy) 1 x-12 (312 clone) Wa12 4 x Helios (diy) 2 x vintage designs m81 1 x ssl 9k clone 1 x tnc acmp73 (modded) Soundcard ghost (but I've never used the Mic pres) More than I need and some are out on loan.
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Post by notneeson on Dec 18, 2017 20:16:10 GMT -6
I've used an 8078 and it was the best easiest mix I ever did. I could not directly compare but there was no need for outboard pres. I have close to the 'dream' but the dream is at least 10 channels of neve in the form of a console. So far 2 x Capi vp28 2 x 1272 2 x 1290 (diy) 2 x tube (diy but delicious) 4 x 312 (diy) 1 x-12 (312 clone) Wa12 4 x Helios (diy) 2 x vintage designs m81 1 x ssl 9k clone 1 x tnc acmp73 (modded) Soundcard ghost (but I've never used the Mic pres) More than I need and some are out on loan. Tell me about you TNC ACMP73 mods?
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Post by Bender on Dec 18, 2017 20:24:24 GMT -6
Mmm someday I will get there, slowly filling up my rack but seeing how some of you guys are rolling DEEP in the Pre's & still want more than likely insuates that it won't stop with my dream Rig Lol....But help me help you and order some CAPI,Hairball, or AML Kits already.You don't want to build em, but I do. Lets make our dreams come true together hahaha.
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Post by Bender on Dec 18, 2017 20:25:28 GMT -6
Nope. That's why I have that RCA BN-2A waiting for you in the classifieds..... A man can dream, If only I had the coin, or the knowledge to DIY/Repair some of these old babies
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Post by rocinante on Dec 21, 2017 1:55:08 GMT -6
I've used an 8078 and it was the best easiest mix I ever did. I could not directly compare but there was no need for outboard pres. I have close to the 'dream' but the dream is at least 10 channels of neve in the form of a console. So far 2 x Capi vp28 2 x 1272 2 x 1290 (diy) 2 x tube (diy but delicious) 4 x 312 (diy) 1 x-12 (312 clone) Wa12 4 x Helios (diy) 2 x vintage designs m81 1 x ssl 9k clone 1 x tnc acmp73 (modded) Soundcard ghost (but I've never used the Mic pres) More than I need and some are out on loan. Tell me about you TNC ACMP73 mods? I switched the stock transformers with Carnhill input and output xfmrs and associated caps. The acmp73 is a really nice layout. To be honest the chameleon labs was a little more like Neve in its layout, albeit the wiring is not a direct switch for never ba283 amps. Their all derivatives of each other including golden age.
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Post by Vincent R. on Dec 21, 2017 5:56:17 GMT -6
Tell me about you TNC ACMP73 mods? I switched the stock transformers with Carnhill input and output xfmrs and associated caps. The acmp73 is a really nice layout. To be honest the chameleon labs was a little more like Neve in its layout, albeit the wiring is not a direct switch for never ba283 amps. Their all derivatives of each other including golden age. I really want to do this with my ACMP-84.
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Post by rocinante on Dec 21, 2017 11:05:44 GMT -6
I switched the stock transformers with Carnhill input and output xfmrs and associated caps. The acmp73 is a really nice layout. To be honest the chameleon labs was a little more like Neve in its layout, albeit the wiring is not a direct switch for never ba283 amps. Their all derivatives of each other including golden age. I really want to do this with my ACMP-84. Did you have any of the hum issues? Did you want to do the Mic in and line in as well, assuming you are going to do the output xfmr?
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Post by Vincent R. on Dec 21, 2017 11:35:48 GMT -6
I really want to do this with my ACMP-84. Did you have any of the hum issues? Did you want to do the Mic in and line in as well, assuming you are going to do the output xfmr? No hum issues. I have a good one. I just find it to be on the bright side of the Neve sound. I end up using my UAD1073 over it. I'd like to get it a bit closer to the true Neve sound. I really like the EQ.
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Post by drbill on Dec 21, 2017 12:30:24 GMT -6
Between a buddy and myself over the years, we've had over a dozen of the ACMP's. Never a problem with any of them - hum wise. I like the ACMP better than the AML 1073 for kick drums / snare. That's pretty much the only place I use em. I'd be hesitant to change out the transformers for Carnhills. I like em just the way they are for drums. I still have 5.
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Post by adamjbrass on Dec 21, 2017 12:58:35 GMT -6
Yes. But I never stop dreaming for more abundance.
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Post by notneeson on Dec 21, 2017 13:38:53 GMT -6
Between a buddy and myself over the years, we've had over a dozen of the ACMP's. Never a problem with any of them - hum wise. I like the ACMP better than the AML 1073 for kick drums / snare. That's pretty much the only place I use em. I'd be hesitant to change out the transformers for Carnhills. I like em just the way they are for drums. I still have 5. Roddy Bell told me years ago in an email (or pm exchange) that he had done all the typical upgrades (caps, transformers, not sure about transistors...) and determined the iron made the least difference. I don't recall his methodology, maybe he did it in stages? Anyway, his take on the ACMP upgrades was that the tantalum caps made the biggest difference. Mine are stock, I use them on drums as well. Have one little problem with insertion loss when I instantiate the EQ on one of them. Not sure what's up with that.
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Post by rocinante on Dec 22, 2017 12:37:26 GMT -6
What are the stock transformers?
I use mine on bass when I need to narrow it and thump it out and frigging love it.
Just to be clear I'm not doubting you guys but if you ask Tanner or any of those Neve Guru dudes they're going to say that a large part of the Neve sound is the Transformers. Obviously they didn't use carnhills at the time. I just worked on a 33415 (a 1081 with a different output xfmr) when searching around I read stuff like 'it's a mariner going into an line amp with a big ol 1751 output xfmr hanging off it.' I'm paraphasing.
I have a bunch of ba338s and ba340s I'm just waiting to find time to stick in something.
Godyam life gets in the way.
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Post by rowmat on Dec 22, 2017 15:31:57 GMT -6
Excluding the console(s) here's what's in our rack(s) Apart from some Valley Transamp pre's I'm about to experiment with there's not really anything else I'm specifically looking for except maybe a couple of channels of old school tube pre's. Maybe some old Ampex's or similar. Neve 33114 Pre/EQ x2 Neve 3115 Pre/EQ Heritage Audio 8173 Pre/EQ (Neve style Class ‘A’ 1081) x 2 Heritage Audio 6673 Pre/EQ (Neve style Class ‘A’) x 2 Mercury Audio Bruder – 2 Channel Tube (Telefunken V72s/V76M style) AEA RPQ - 2 Channel Sebatron Axis 200VU 2 Channel – Tube Universal Audio UA610 MKII – Tube CAPI VP28 (API Style) x 4 CAPI VP312 (API Style) x 2 JLM Audio BA500 x2 Custom Deane Jensen Twin Servo Style 2 Channel (based on SCA J99 modules but fitted with Jensen Transformers in a 19" rack) Sound Skulptor MP566 – Tube x 2 (Fitted with NOS Mullard 12AT7's) Seventh Circle Audio N72 (Neve Style) x 4 Seventh Circle Audio J99 (John Hardy Twin Servo Style) x 2 Seventh Circle Audio C84 (Millenia Style) x 2
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Post by notneeson on Dec 22, 2017 22:10:36 GMT -6
What are the stock transformers? I use mine on bass when I need to narrow it and thump it out and frigging love it. Just to be clear I'm not doubting you guys but if you ask Tanner or any of those Neve Guru dudes they're going to say that a large part of the Neve sound is the Transformers. Obviously they didn't use carnhills at the time. I just worked on a 33415 (a 1081 with a different output xfmr) when searching around I read stuff like 'it's a mariner going into an line amp with a big ol 1751 output xfmr hanging off it.' I'm paraphasing. I have a bunch of ba338s and ba340s I'm just waiting to find time to stick in something. Godyam life gets in the way. Yep, I have read similar stuff about the iron, I know we all have. Just thought it was an interesting take from someone who came across as super knowledgeable (I think he was/is a tech at the BBC?) and had done the work on these particular clones. I don't know if 797 (the OEM for TNC) made those transformers or if they used a vendor, but I think it's safe to say they were made in China. I have used the TNCs alongside vintage 33114s, Vintech X73is and Phoenix DRSs etc. and always felt they were quite good, if maybe a tiny bit "smaller" sounding. Or something, maybe grainier?. Could just be confirmation bias and they certainly don't sound bad in the least. That said, the 33114s, class AB and all, always struck me as the most harmonically rich of them all, and they have the original iron. So there ya go.
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Post by EmRR on Dec 22, 2017 22:49:19 GMT -6
Yep, I have read similar stuff about the iron, I know we all have. 33114s, class AB and all, always struck me as the most harmonically rich of them all, and they have the original iron. The real Neve I've worked on was 33114 and 33115. Much richer sound than any clone I've heard.
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 14,919
Member is Online
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Post by ericn on Dec 22, 2017 23:12:57 GMT -6
Yep, I have read similar stuff about the iron, I know we all have. 33114s, class AB and all, always struck me as the most harmonically rich of them all, and they have the original iron. The real Neve I've worked on was 33114 and 33115. Much richer sound than any clone I've heard. Doug I have spent far more time on real 33114's than real 10 series modules and in many ways think the 33's actually represent the sound they think the 10 series will give them! I am as guilty as anybody for chasing the myth, I can count on your fingers how many times I have worked with real well maintained 1073's! In fact I will admit the reason I went down the Dan Alexander recreation 1272's with real Vintage Iron is I walked into a pawnshop saw a 2ch without PSU for $700 put $500 cash on the counter and walked out with a pre. Loved it and jumped every time I found a deal!
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Post by roundbadge on Dec 23, 2017 2:12:38 GMT -6
I kinda went down the rabbit hole up until a couple years ago.had vintage 76's,vintage lustraphone 3 band Helios,70's Trident A ranges,Vintage Neves,API's,Dakings,Electrodyne SS and Tube,RCA,CApi etc etc. been there done that. still have the Neves,Dakings a couple Chandler redds,bunch of Capis and some Flickinger stuff. dont really lust buying mic pres lately...if I need more channels I'd be thrilled to have more Capi's,The 28's and Heiders are friggin' outstanding. ..buuut then there's that Sound Techniques stuff!! lol
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kasroc
Junior Member
Posts: 70
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Post by kasroc on Jan 8, 2019 12:29:04 GMT -6
Getting closer. Just need one more.
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Post by roundbadge on Jan 8, 2019 12:47:36 GMT -6
I also wouldn't mind an Undertone Audio MPDI-4 or a pair of MPEQ-1s. Those kinda seem like desert island pres. I’ve used those a bunch Nice but not super colored though. Nothing like Neve or API. I was never compelled to purchase any. The eq is super flexible though.
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Post by roundbadge on Jan 8, 2019 12:52:44 GMT -6
Got a Coil rack from Namm last year. 70’s and 286’s Fantastic.
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