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Post by Johnkenn on Dec 14, 2017 18:23:33 GMT -6
I've had dual SS HD's installed for the last few years. It definitely made an improvement. Lately, though, I've been getting CPU spikes which interrupts PT's during tracking. I've read somewhere that CPU spikes may indicate a failing CPU. I don't know. I hate spending money on computers. I'm just trying to milk every last ounce of life out of this Mac Mini that I can. Try turning off the audition path in PT. I finally found that it helped a lot. Audition path?
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Post by mulmany on Dec 14, 2017 18:24:23 GMT -6
Try turning off the audition path in PT. I finally found that it helped a lot. Audition path? It's in the I/o setup.
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Post by donr on Dec 14, 2017 20:01:29 GMT -6
I popped for a 6 core trashcan last year, even as it hadn't been updated since '13. It looks like a slowpoke not even listed on the speed graphs. It's got horsepower for DAW work, but I have maxed out the CPU at least once, piling on plugs and VI's.
Can any DAW use 18 cores? I guess Logic can, but offline bounce isn't something you need to have happen that much faster than it already does. You need to run lots of plugs and instruments and I/O's.
One thing I'll say for the trashcan, it's dead quiet. You'll never hear it.
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Post by Quint on Dec 14, 2017 20:25:17 GMT -6
Ever thought about building a Hackintosh? I came close to building one but never got around to it because Windows decided to finally support TB. I get that it takes a little effort to put one together and there can be some stability issues for some people but they sure are cheaper than buying a new Mac. I guess it depends on what your priorities are. There is a lot of documentation out there on sites like Tonymac to help someone build one, especially if you're willing to wait a little bit and not be the guinea pig for the latest generation of processors. As a comparison, I'm just wrapping up getting the final parts together for a new PC build that is as good or better than that $5000 Mac and it's only costing me about $2000. I imagine those parts or something similar would make for a nice Hackintosh as well. pcpartpicker.com/list/rWncd6I did build a Hackintosh about 4-5 years ago. I remember having more issues with that than I do with my Mac Mini. The worst part was, every time something weird would happen (kernel panics, error messages, cpu spikes, etc), I was always left wondering was it my Hackintosh or was it whatever software/hardware I was running at the time? It made troubleshooting difficult. It was a cool experience, but I'll never do it again. I'll pay a few more dollars for piece of mind. Less time spent fixing computer problems means more time making music. I hear you. I read about similar experiences with some other people's Hackintosh builds but never got to experience it myself. That's why I'm glad I'm on PC. I can build my own and save a bunch of money but not have to compromise on stability like some people seem to with their Hackintosh builds. These new high performance Macs are just crazy expensive.
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Post by reddirt on Dec 14, 2017 23:45:48 GMT -6
My first question as it is for any i-mac , is ; what's the noise like. You would expect with processing power like that , there's a lot of heat generated.
cheers. Ross
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Post by mrholmes on Dec 15, 2017 1:50:05 GMT -6
Macs are too pricey since a few years, that's why I buy always older generations used.
They have great quality @ Apple. If people don't believe it I show them my first generation Mac Pro 1.1 from 2001 still a fast computer with 8 cores and 32 GB RAM.
If you don't run mega big session all ITB one of the older Macs will serve you.
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Post by Quint on Dec 15, 2017 6:10:35 GMT -6
My first question as it is for any i-mac , is ; what's the noise like. You would expect with processing power like that , there's a lot of heat generated. cheers. Ross Yeah, I'm not a fan of the all in one boxes like this where you don't have the option to locate all of the noise producing parts in a machine room or silent rack or something. I also don't like that you're married to that monitor screen and only that screen for as long as you use that Mac. I like having the option of choosing my monitors for size, price and quality and also the freedom of placement.
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Post by indiehouse on Dec 15, 2017 6:20:09 GMT -6
Holy shit a $13k iMac? Who has that kind of cash? up here, with exchange, duties and taxes , these things will be like 20 grand: seriously ? Yeah, but c'mon dude. You don't need a maxed out iMac Pro. Even the standard iMac Pro is way more computer than you need.
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Post by kcatthedog on Dec 15, 2017 7:18:27 GMT -6
I completely agree was just pointing out how silly the cost is ! Like seriously, who is going to drop 20 grand on a computer: not me !
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Post by NoFilterChuck on Dec 15, 2017 15:20:39 GMT -6
It's not overpriced if you look up the cost of those individual parts used to build it.
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Post by Quint on Dec 15, 2017 17:45:44 GMT -6
It's not overpriced if you look up the cost of those individual parts used to build it. Yeah it is overpriced if you compare the cost of parts, particularly for someone who is looking to purchase a computer for recording audio. I posted this part comparison earlier in the thread for a PC build I'm doing. pcpartpicker.com/list/rWncd6 The list of parts I posted doesn't include a PSU and case because I already had that covered but you'll get the idea. Now, granted, that $5000 Mac does include a monitor, but my build has nearly 2 TB of storage (versus 1 TB, add $800 for another TB on the mac) on four separate SSDs, two of which are the super fast m.2 NVMe type for a sample drive and OS drive. That Mac has 8 cores versus my 6 cores, but my 8700k is also the latest CPU versus the older Xeon on the mac. There are also differences in GPUs I'm sure, and that Mac has a nicer gpu than what I need or want, so I suppose that could play a role, not that super fancy GPUs really matter for us doing audio. For the sake of discussion, let's call it a wash in quality and capability of parts. My approximately $2500 build (after you throw in a nice monitor) is roughly HALF the cost of that $5000 Mac. I'm sure the parts cost disparity between the two only diverges further as you add whatever additional parts Apple is putting in that thing to get it up to $13,000. I don't post these parts as a means of igniting a PC versus Mac debate. I'm simply posting them to show what the parts actually cost, and these days Mac and PC use the same parts, not to mention that Apple isn't paying the off the shelf prices that I am either.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Dec 15, 2017 18:08:36 GMT -6
Talking with freind "Well in 6 months we will see a bunch of these at half price as all the new cool start ups who over spent on IMac Pros because they were there go belly up!
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Post by Quint on Dec 15, 2017 18:16:04 GMT -6
Talking with freind "Well in 6 months we will see a bunch of these at half price as all the new cool start ups who over spent on IMac Pros because they were there go belly up! Haha. Yeah, buy an imac then at that point in time.
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Post by NoFilterChuck on Dec 15, 2017 20:50:56 GMT -6
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Post by Quint on Dec 15, 2017 21:44:17 GMT -6
The 8700k has a similar processor speed, plus it supports the latest memory. The build I listed has 32 gb of ram. I'm not sure why you think 32gb on one stick is better than 32gb on four sticks? Plus the ram I listed is 3200 instead of 2666. Do you or anybody need 128gb for audio production? Regardless, we're talking about the same amount of ram. Which is better for audio production? 1 TB total on one drive or 500gb for one ssd sata project drive, 500 gb for a second SSD SATA project drive, 500 gb for a NVMe sample drive and 250 gb for a NVMe OS drive? If we're comparing apples to oranges, does that imac offer four SSD drives, two of them at NVMe speeds? I agree that the video card is worth more. Does anyone in audio production need it? And if we're talking about cost comparisons, I would say that the money not spent on the Radeon offsets the extra money put into the multiple SSDs, which the imac doesn't offer at that price. I mean, Apple charges an extra $800 for an additional TB of drive space. Really? I'm largely agnostic to the whole PC versus Mac debate, but I do get annoyed with the whole Mac is infallible and PC is inferior discussion. They are both options, but one is way less expensive.
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Post by NoFilterChuck on Dec 16, 2017 2:54:33 GMT -6
the imac pro is built with server hardware.
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Post by Quint on Dec 16, 2017 9:38:56 GMT -6
the imac pro is built with server hardware. Is it? That sounds like a marketing sound bite. Tell me what piece(s) of hardware in the imac is "server" hardware and why that even matters. You'll also have to define what "server" even means in this context. Calling something "server" moreso indicates it's intended use as opposed to the degree of quality of parts. I don't think server farms are going to be switching to iMacs anytime soon.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2017 10:02:17 GMT -6
I have noticed in the past few weeks that my 2012 Mac Mini is not doing well. I'm gonna need a computer upgrade sooner than later. But I can't bring myself to drop $5k on a computer. Time for new SS HD. Had exactly the same problem here with my 2010 Mac Mini, and 2010 MacBook Pro laptop--both were going sad. Replaced their HD's for SS and both just flying like new. YMMV Best, M I did exactly that with the 2012 Mini I use as a secondary test machine. It makes a big difference, especially when you consider that most of the Minis had only 5400 RPM drives.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2017 10:26:58 GMT -6
The iMac Pro is coming in about where you should expect pricewise. By the time you look at all components and system details, it really doesn't cost much of a premium over building the thing on your own. And if you value your time, then a few hundred extra dollars allow you to avoid having to wonder what's going wrong on your Hackintosh. Plus the form factor is very nice for what it is.
But, as was stated earlier, this isn't really targeted toward music as much as video. As quiet as it may be, it's still going to make noise if you're pushing it hard. But it makes me really excited to see what might be coming in the Mac Pro. That core count, along with the ability to remote it and do some midlife upgrades should make it a very nice machine. Early measurements are showing the iMac to really be fast and I think most people doing music will be fine with a basic 8-10 core machine. But in post, the track counts are in the hundreds. And more cores translate directly into more power and flexibility.
It's really easy to misunderstand what Moore's law brings along. It does make technology faster and equivalent technology cheaper. A baseline Mac with display has always cost somewhere around $1400. My first Mac cost me that in 1992 (in today's dollar that's about $2500). It had a VGA-level display and a 68030 processor. A new 21" iMac costs $1300 today and is superior in every way. So one impact of Moore's law is that we get more tech for less money. But it also means that--for more money--we can get a computer with stunning power. You couldn't have had a iMac Pro for all the money in the world 20 years ago. It means you can reconceptualize what you need your tools to do.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Dec 16, 2017 10:48:02 GMT -6
Talking with freind "Well in 6 months we will see a bunch of these at half price as all the new cool start ups who over spent on IMac Pros because they were there go belly up! Haha. Yeah, buy an imac then at that point in time. That is how I have bought every Mac I have ever owned starting with my 9600!
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Post by lcr on Dec 16, 2017 13:11:20 GMT -6
up here, with exchange, duties and taxes , these things will be like 20 grand: seriously ? Yeah, but c'mon dude. You don't need a maxed out iMac Pro. Even the standard iMac Pro is way more computer than you need. This is what I was thinking. And im sure the display is amazing. I would probably run a big ole 4k display in front of me and imac pro off to the right side for mixbuss processing and metering. Of course Im not upgrading any time soon but if I wanted to this looks like a great setup for my needs.
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Post by svart on Dec 16, 2017 20:58:14 GMT -6
Time for new SS HD. Had exactly the same problem here with my 2010 Mac Mini, and 2010 MacBook Pro laptop--both were going sad. Replaced their HD's for SS and both just flying like new. YMMV Best, M I've had dual SS HD's installed for the last few years. It definitely made an improvement. Lately, though, I've been getting CPU spikes which interrupts PT's during tracking. I've read somewhere that CPU spikes may indicate a failing CPU. I don't know. I hate spending money on computers. I'm just trying to milk every last ounce of life out of this Mac Mini that I can. That's not true. Unless your CPU is overclocked, it's doubtful it's failing. IF it's failing, you're going to start seeing kernel panic or bsod messages, or the machine will straight lock up.
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Post by svart on Dec 16, 2017 21:04:42 GMT -6
The new iMac Pro is meant for videographers dealing with 8K footage. Think of the 3- or 4-person teams making youtube videos reviewing computer hardware. That's the target audience. It's all about cutting down those rendering times. As I mentioned in the other thread, CPU core counts almost mean nothing to video NLE software. It's CPU/RAM speed that matters more, along with GPU pipeline count. A simple i7 at 4+GHz, 64gb ram and 2x-3x 1080ti video cards will plow through 8k no problem with a high end NLE like DaVinci. You have to remember that GPUs are orders of magnitude more powerful that even the fastest and most powerful CPUs.
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Post by popmann on Dec 16, 2017 22:43:18 GMT -6
These don't even tempt me. A Kaby Lake i7 iMac with a TB NVME drive will walk up and down on these for virtual instrument playing-if someone has issues with audio production, on anything, I'm calling shenanigans and/or you're doing something really REALLY differently than I ever have....THAT is your "overpriced" temptation in Apple computers for me. I think an pimped iMac is about $3300. The same hardware in blah box costs about $1500'ish. But, that's not reatil--that's the problem with everyone quoting those--Mac users don't want to build machines. To buy a PC with similar specs at retail--be it sweetwater or ADK or whatever, would cost nearly as much and Apple's ARE more elegant...in a lot of ways.
So, if you can build--it's the building that saves the money. You can put OS X on it if you want. But, someone lusting after ECC RAM and Xeon processors for music production shouldn't likely build anything. Certainly not without the assistance of someone who knows what the purpose calls for....which is PCIe audio hardware....fast, low latency RAM, and a CPU with a screaming TURBO speed, particularly if you're a Logic user where they put the whole input chain and everything it's routed to on ONE core whether you have 2 or 24.
But, then--I don't have an issue using Windows. I can't ignore the long term TOC...so, a Hack now....with having maybe install Windows on it in a few years (when you'd really probably have to replace your Apple hardware anyway to run the latest and greatest)....isn't really a bad proposition.
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Post by kcatthedog on Dec 17, 2017 6:01:40 GMT -6
I personally run apple products and have always had a solid experience. I do agree that I pay a premium for that experience but I also note that I never have problems. I started on FW but have been running Tbolt pci-e for roughy 4 years ( apollo/symphony).
I too don't want to get into the win vs apple thing (whatever:)), but I read the posts at the ua forum about the apparently endless problems with windows machines and everyone trying to sort out wtf to do with tbolt and I happily run my 2012 i7 mbp with 2 ssds.
I am thinking about a win build at some point, but if I saw a news used imac over the next while at an interesting discount, would likely jump on that.
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