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Post by mrholmes on Nov 23, 2017 9:36:04 GMT -6
Friends of good music.
Sometimes I have the impression some rerverbs are BAD and they cause phase issues...
Is that possible?
Cheers
Holmes.
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Nov 23, 2017 9:52:38 GMT -6
A number of digital reverbs are mono and simply flip the polarity on their two outputs. Another reason to ALWAYS check mono.
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Post by joseph on Nov 23, 2017 10:56:00 GMT -6
VSR S24, try it. True stereo.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Nov 23, 2017 14:47:18 GMT -6
A number of digital reverbs are mono and simply flip the polarity on their two outputs. Another reason to ALWAYS check mono. Yet another reason for using channels rather than Worthless EFX returns on a console, the polarity switch! |
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Post by mrholmes on Nov 23, 2017 15:21:38 GMT -6
VSR S24, try it. True stereo. I know what a TS reverb is the question was based on a plug which claims to be TS, but it sounds phasy as hell in a Rock mix. The question came to mind if some fake it in a bad way. BTW Thanks for the answer Bob O. |
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Post by johneppstein on Nov 23, 2017 15:26:35 GMT -6
A number of digital reverbs are mono and simply flip the polarity on their two outputs. Another reason to ALWAYS check mono. Yet another reason for using channels rather than Worthless EFX returns on a console, the polarity switch! EFX Returns? You mean CD/cassette inputs?  |
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Post by ericn on Nov 23, 2017 15:28:14 GMT -6
Yet another reason for using channels rather than Worthless EFX returns on a console, the polarity switch! EFX Returns? You mean CD inputs? We called them " Marketing inputs" because you know the marketing guy said we need x amount f inputs! |
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Post by johneppstein on Nov 23, 2017 15:31:49 GMT -6
EFX Returns? You mean CD inputs? We called them " Marketing inputs" because you know the marketing guy said we need x amount f inputs! You mean like "marketing channels" where they call a "stereo channel" with one shared mic input and one fader "two" channels? That annoys the crap out of me... |
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Post by ericn on Nov 23, 2017 15:40:12 GMT -6
We called them " Marketing inputs" because you know the marketing guy said we need x amount f inputs! You mean like "marketing channels" where they call a "stereo channel" with one shared mic input and one fader "two" channels? That annoys the crap out of me... Yeah those are just as bad, but the version where you can't flip a switch to mono suck more or digital input that's a stereo input with a converter and just SPDIF & AES inputs! Of course I would really love to find 4 Stereo Analog DDA Analog Forum/ FMR modules! |
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Post by johneppstein on Nov 23, 2017 15:50:40 GMT -6
You mean like "marketing channels" where they call a "stereo channel" with one shared mic input and one fader "two" channels? That annoys the crap out of me... Yeah those are just as bad, but the version where you can't flip a switch to mono suck more or digital input that's a stereo input with a converter and just SPDIF & AES inputs! Of course I would really love to find 4 Stereo Analog DDA Analog Forum/ FMR modules! I've always avoided using those "fx inputs" for anything except background music inputs for the simple reason that I really dislike returning FX to rotary level controls that are somewhere away from my fader line. It's totally contrary to the way I mix FX. And they never have FX sends associated with them. Or EQ. |
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Nov 23, 2017 16:28:23 GMT -6
Yeah those are just as bad, but the version where you can't flip a switch to mono suck more or digital input that's a stereo input with a converter and just SPDIF & AES inputs! Of course I would really love to find 4 Stereo Analog DDA Analog Forum/ FMR modules! I've always avoided using those "fx inputs" for anything except background music inputs for the simple reason that I really dislike returning FX to rotary level controls that are somewhere away from my fader line. It's totally contrary to the way I mix FX. And they never have FX sends associated with them. Or EQ. Yeah, I'm pretty much the same, I like EQing verbs and delays as well as blending via the other aux sends. Most EFX returns end up as unused or playback inputs, but even then if you need to playback for talent they are useless! |
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Post by bradd on Nov 23, 2017 20:04:06 GMT -6
I was recently shocked when I discovered how much better my TC4000 sounds when I bring the returns to a channel rather than an EFX return. The difference is not subtle.
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Post by ericn on Nov 23, 2017 20:29:43 GMT -6
I was recently shocked when I discovered how much better my TC4000 sounds when I bring the returns to a channel rather than an EFX return. The difference is not subtle. Told you so!!😎 |
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Post by joseph on Nov 23, 2017 20:50:19 GMT -6
VSR S24, try it. True stereo. I know what a TS reverb is the question was based on a plug which claims to be TS, but it sounds phasy as hell in a Rock mix. The question came to mind if some fake it in a bad way. BTW Thanks for the answer Bob O. My reply was building on exactly what Bob said and suggesting an alternative that won't give you these problems. |
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Post by popmann on Nov 23, 2017 22:39:17 GMT -6
Any realistic early reflection emulation can cause the same poor comb filtering due to the phase interplay as actual acoustic reflections arriving time delayed to the mic.
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Post by Ward on Nov 24, 2017 7:30:40 GMT -6
Any realistic early reflection emulation can cause the same poor comb filtering due to the phase interplay as actual acoustic reflections arriving time delayed to the mic. THIS. Additionally, there are serious phase issues with many many Digital Reverbs and even electronic simulations based on them. comb-filtering effects from phase issues (not necessarily 180º out of phase so flipping won't solve) in the 90-120 range that become more pronounced the more sparse the mix. Some phase issues only start to occur during the tail-off/fadeout. So, spend some time listening. And proper damping can be a big help too. That high end sparkle on a digital reverb might sound 'cool' at times but it isn't natural and is the source of a lot of issues. And everything Uncle Bob had to say!! |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2017 11:29:32 GMT -6
Just check everything in mono for disappearing "stuff". Will depend on the algorithm.
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Post by johneppstein on Nov 24, 2017 17:38:10 GMT -6
Just check everything in mono for disappearing "stuff". Will depend on the algorithm. That won't really help with "phasey" tonality because it's not caused by a polarity reversal, it' s comb filtering. |
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Nov 25, 2017 17:31:13 GMT -6
It'll help with some of the crappy reverbs that actually only flip the phase.
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Post by johneppstein on Nov 26, 2017 12:41:27 GMT -6
It'll help with some of the crappy reverbs that actually only flip the phase. Well, yeah, of course. |
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Post by adamjbrass on Nov 27, 2017 13:18:32 GMT -6
Friends of good music. Sometimes I have the impression some rerverbs are BAD and they cause phase issues... Is that possible? Cheers Holmes. Which I why I like using my Pluto Plate Reverb in Mono |
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Post by rowmat on Nov 27, 2017 13:29:49 GMT -6
So maybe I should just run two EMT 140's each in mono? One Left and the other Right. Dagnabbit!! Now I gotta go and try to find another 140!  |
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Post by adamjbrass on Nov 27, 2017 15:29:06 GMT -6
So maybe I should just run two EMT 140's each in mono? One Left and the other Right. Dagnabbit!! Now I gotta go and try to find another 140! Now yer talkin' but add TWO more, One for Left, Center and Right! Soar like an Eagle inside the mix But honestly, I think One Mono is your safest bet, |
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Post by mrholmes on Nov 27, 2017 16:42:02 GMT -6
Friends of good music. Sometimes I have the impression some rerverbs are BAD and they cause phase issues... Is that possible? Cheers Holmes. Which I why I like using my Pluto Plate Reverb in Mono  Mono Glider....  |
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Post by donr on Nov 27, 2017 16:52:02 GMT -6
That's a cool idea, say, UAD 140 one side, Waves Abbey Road on the other.
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Mono Glider....