|
Post by drsax on Nov 17, 2017 10:19:58 GMT -6
I just needed to pony up for one. I will use it on drums mainly. Eventually will get a second. In the world of ribbons, this one seems to stand out with some meat and mids to it along with the big lows. What are you guys liking it on? Horns, sax? They sound so good as my drum overheads I haven’t moved them since they were purchased. Seriously magical as drum overheads or drum room Mics. It’s time for me to try them on my sax. I’ve been using them with my Great River Mic pres and they sound stunning
|
|
|
Post by EmRR on Nov 17, 2017 10:23:12 GMT -6
So far no one has produced solid test data other than Jim Williams about devices like the Proudgrifter, and he comes up with the inescapable fact that they have lower S/N ratio than the average preamp. The only one of those devices I ever saw a quoted noise S/N figure for was a Sanken I believe, and it was 114dB S/N. No one else quotes it that I've seen. They may make for a different response, but apples to apples, there's not a single piece of hard evidence extant that shows noise is lower (not even equal!) when using one. Match gain EXACTLY with and without, use prerecorded playback and do a null match, and report back.
|
|
|
Post by iamasound on Nov 17, 2017 10:28:31 GMT -6
|
|
|
Post by drsax on Nov 17, 2017 10:29:33 GMT -6
Here’s my pair on an AEA Stereo mounting bar. They sound SO good as high overheads. I use the small condensers closer overhead and the Coles up high. Attachment DeletedAttachment Deleted
|
|
|
Post by bradd on Nov 17, 2017 10:49:49 GMT -6
Dr. Sax,
How high are your ceilings? I've been wanting to get a pair of Coles to use for overheads, but worry that my ceiling is too low.
|
|
|
Post by ulriggribbons on Nov 17, 2017 11:25:08 GMT -6
One more question for you Coles fans, which preamp do you use? I guess the 4038 has a pretty low output, I wonder if something like my BAE 1028 will work. I use the one that I make (obviously ), but any mic pre that doesn't get noisy in the upper reaches of it's gain range will be good. Depending on the source, you'll want roughly 66dB of gain available (mine max's at 72dB, but that last click doesn't get used that often). If you track with compression, you can often get away with less, if you are using makeup gain in the compressor. Fetheads, Cloudlifters, etc. work fine, but if you have a mic pre of quality (and the 1028 certainly qualifies as that!), you should be fine.
|
|
|
Post by drsax on Nov 17, 2017 11:28:32 GMT -6
Dr. Sax, How high are your ceilings? I've been wanting to get a pair of Coles to use for overheads, but worry that my ceiling is too low. Just under 8 feet. The GIK acoustic panels on the ceiling made a huge difference. Been getting killer drum tones in this room.
|
|
|
Post by EmRR on Nov 17, 2017 11:37:22 GMT -6
One more question for you Coles fans, which preamp do you use? I guess the 4038 has a pretty low output, I wonder if something like my BAE 1028 will work. If you track with compression, you can often get away with less, if you are using makeup gain in the compressor. Bingo! The superior noise option.
|
|
|
Post by stormymondays on Nov 17, 2017 12:39:40 GMT -6
So far no one has produced solid test data other than Jim Williams about devices like the Proudgrifter, and he comes up with the inescapable fact that they have lower S/N ratio than the average preamp. The only one of those devices I ever saw a quoted noise S/N figure for was a Sanken I believe, and it was 114dB S/N. No one else quotes it that I've seen. They may make for a different response, but apples to apples, there's not a single piece of hard evidence extant that shows noise is lower (not even equal!) when using one. Match gain EXACTLY with and without, use prerecorded playback and do a null match, and report back. The nice thing about the Mogaines is that it's got a transformer instead of being just FET based. Plus the benefit of blocking phantom power and the 3.3kΩ input impedance. It's easy to hear that a Shure SM7 simply sounds better plugged into it, with less noise. I didn't do a null test, just a quick check. I didn't even need to A/B.
|
|
|
Post by EmRR on Nov 17, 2017 13:09:03 GMT -6
The point is you HAVE to A/B when it comes to noise.
The 'free' transformer gain of the Mogaine may be the standout situation.
3K3 isn't particularly high. There 's lots of stuff (Yamaha, Mackie, etc) that's 4K - 5K input Z.
|
|
|
Post by jayson on Nov 17, 2017 15:24:44 GMT -6
One more question for you Coles fans, which preamp do you use? I guess the 4038 has a pretty low output, I wonder if something like my BAE 1028 will work. I've been using mainly a pair of CAPI VP28 with them and haven't had gain or gratuitous noise be any issue. I think any fairly good pre with lots of gain wouldn't really struggle with it. It seems like it's ok with gain setting that might be a bit higher than I would typically use with other mics, but not to an outrageously high. If you're concerned there's a fair amount of those mic boosters that a few folks are building now like the FetHead or the Cloudlifter. Sometimes I get a little paranoid about hitting the phantom power by accident and it makes me wonder if maybe a pair of those would be a wise idea.
|
|
|
Post by ulriggribbons on Nov 17, 2017 16:08:42 GMT -6
Here's a battle I've been fighting since I started my company. =) The ribbon mic already has an output transformer, which will block DC from getting to the ribbon: www.shinybox.com/ribbon-microphones-phantom-power/I can expound on the cases where it could be an issue, but for the most part, it should not be an issue.
|
|
|
Post by bradd on Nov 17, 2017 19:51:58 GMT -6
Dr. Sax, How high are your ceilings? I've been wanting to get a pair of Coles to use for overheads, but worry that my ceiling is too low. Just under 8 feet. The GIK acoustic panels on the ceiling made a huge difference. Been getting killer drum tones in this room. Thanks. That’s great news. My ceiling is the same height and I also have GIK panels over my kit.
|
|
|
Post by joseph on Nov 17, 2017 21:04:49 GMT -6
Yeah, my main recording space has low ceilings and I had been using M160s, KM84s, and mono 87i, with good results.
But I got a pair of Coles and they work best. Reason being they have deep side nulls and I do a lot of live recording, so they barely pick up the amps, which get the M160s. I do have exposed beams and uneven stone walls rather than sheetrocked so that diffuses the sound I suppose. I have GIK panels too, but I don't use them all that much, mostly I've invested in the right kind of mics and trial and error in placement.
And the midrange is very detailed but not hard sounding, and sculpt-able. If you cut boxiness you won't lose too much body or crack, but they still pull in some room. Hard to put into words. Also means they take well to reverb.
Standing waves can be more of an issue than slap happy ceilings.
You won't know until you've tried them, but it's worth it.
Also they look badass, so drummers and everyone gets psyched.
|
|
|
Post by rowmat on Nov 18, 2017 0:33:57 GMT -6
Yeah, my main recording space has low ceilings and I had been using M160s, KM84s, and mono 87i, with good results. But I got a pair of Coles and they work best. Reason being they have deep side nulls and I do a lot of live recording, so they barely pick up the amps, which get the M160s. I do have exposed beams and uneven stone walls rather than sheetrocked so that diffuses the sound I suppose. I have GIK panels too, but I don't use them all that much, mostly I've invested in the right kind of mics and trial and error in placement. And the midrange is very detailed but not hard sounding, and sculpt-able. If you cut boxiness you won't lose too much body or crack, but they still pull in some room. Hard to put into words. Also means they take well to reverb. Standing waves can be more of an issue than slap happy ceilings. You won't know until you've tried them, but it's worth it. Also they look badass, so drummers and everyone gets psyched. I just tell people our Coles 4038's are actually my Great, Great, Great Grandma's old charcoal fired clothing irons from the 1880's. You'd be surprised how many people initially think I could be telling the truth when they see a 4038 for the first time!
|
|
|
Post by levon on Nov 18, 2017 3:23:36 GMT -6
Yes, that's what I figured too.
|
|
|
Post by levon on Nov 18, 2017 3:26:57 GMT -6
One more question for you Coles fans, which preamp do you use? I guess the 4038 has a pretty low output, I wonder if something like my BAE 1028 will work. Sometimes I get a little paranoid about hitting the phantom power by accident and it makes me wonder if maybe a pair of those would be a wise idea. That's why the FetHead looks appealing. It blocks the phantom power to the mic while using the same phantom power for gain.
|
|
|
Post by jcoutu1 on Nov 18, 2017 8:44:39 GMT -6
I'm pretty sure I NEED a pair of these.
|
|
|
Post by levon on Nov 18, 2017 13:36:02 GMT -6
I'm pretty sure I NEED a pair of these. I know how you feel
|
|
|
Post by iamasound on Nov 18, 2017 15:45:07 GMT -6
Here's a battle I've been fighting since I started my company. =) The ribbon mic already has an output transformer, which will block DC from getting to the ribbon: www.shinybox.com/ribbon-microphones-phantom-power/I can expound on the cases where it could be an issue, but for the most part, it should not be an issue. I tried to watch the video on your site but it wouldn't load after umpteen tries with Chrome, but with Firefox it wasn't a problem. Thanks for the valuable info.
|
|
|
Post by jayson on Nov 18, 2017 20:57:49 GMT -6
Here's a battle I've been fighting since I started my company. =) The ribbon mic already has an output transformer, which will block DC from getting to the ribbon: www.shinybox.com/ribbon-microphones-phantom-power/I can expound on the cases where it could be an issue, but for the most part, it should not be an issue. Hehehe... Don't try ease my irrational paranoia with your well though out reasoning! It's one of those urban legend kinda things, I know. But once those take root they persist forever (he said, tossing salt over his shoulder).
|
|
|
Post by Mister Chase on Nov 19, 2017 14:47:42 GMT -6
Been using the Coles here - guitar amp and drums. There's that sound! Couldn't find a proper "O" face in the emoticon list... that one will have to suffice.
|
|
|
Post by Guitar on Nov 19, 2017 16:11:13 GMT -6
In my mind, the Coles 4038 is the "U47 of ribbon mics" it just seems like the best one.
Somebody correct me if I'm wrong.
|
|
|
Post by EmRR on Nov 19, 2017 17:01:27 GMT -6
In my mind, the Coles 4038 is the "U47 of ribbon mics" it just seems like the best one. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong. .....it is one of many ribbon mics.....
|
|
|
Post by Guitar on Nov 19, 2017 17:24:41 GMT -6
In my mind, the Coles 4038 is the "U47 of ribbon mics" it just seems like the best one. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong. .....it is one of many ribbon mics..... Haha... well played. One of the 'good ones' anyway.
|
|