|
|
Post by subspace on Oct 21, 2017 13:31:04 GMT -6
I just have this text exchange going with a cold caller/texter that continues to entertain.
I've always taken rap clients whereas many studios in my area do not.
I understand that decision as much of the local vanity work can be karaoke engineering and there is risk involved. I sometimes feel I'm being paid as a background extra for somebody's Facebook posts...
So, u record rap fam?
|
|
|
|
Post by bowie on Oct 21, 2017 13:47:13 GMT -6
I do. I have colleagues who won't because they feel they don't understand the genre well enough to turn out a quality production. I listen to hip-hop/rap and will record it but find the challenges to be greater as you often have more inexperienced artists with poor quality beats/tracks, or no tracs at all, and many of them are frustrated to hear what they sound like when their voice is clear and forward in a mix. Your ability to "fix it" is often limited more so than in other genres.
|
|
|
|
Post by Johnkenn on Oct 21, 2017 14:49:22 GMT -6
I do. I have colleagues who won't because they feel they don't understand the genre well enough to turn out a quality production. I listen to hip-hop/rap and will record it but find the challenges to be greater as you often have more inexperienced artists with poor quality beats/tracks, or no tracs at all, and many of them are frustrated to hear what they sound like when their voice is clear and forward in a mix. Your ability to "fix it" is often limited more so than in other genres. What you mention is exactly why I don't do it...I just don't know the genre. There's TONS of rap work available. I think because everybody can AT LEAST talk. I would say that out of the jobs available out there it's probably 60% rap...Maybe I should start listening. |
|
|
|
Post by drbill on Oct 21, 2017 15:01:53 GMT -6
I do. I have colleagues who won't because they feel they don't understand the genre well enough to turn out a quality production. I listen to hip-hop/rap and will record it but find the challenges to be greater as you often have more inexperienced artists with poor quality beats/tracks, or no tracs at all, and many of them are frustrated to hear what they sound like when their voice is clear and forward in a mix. Your ability to "fix it" is often limited more so than in other genres. What you mention is exactly why I don't do it...I just don't know the genre. There's TONS of rap work available. I think because everybody can AT LEAST talk. I would say that out of the jobs available out there it's probably 60% rap... Maybe I should start listening. yeah, start with that Cardi B song....  |
|
|
|
Post by Johnkenn on Oct 21, 2017 15:03:03 GMT -6
What you mention is exactly why I don't do it...I just don't know the genre. There's TONS of rap work available. I think because everybody can AT LEAST talk. I would say that out of the jobs available out there it's probably 60% rap... Maybe I should start listening. yeah, start with that Cardi B song.... I would be soooooooo lost. "Hey - was that good?" "I have absolutely NO IDEA." |
|
|
|
Post by bowie on Oct 21, 2017 15:10:11 GMT -6
I do. I have colleagues who won't because they feel they don't understand the genre well enough to turn out a quality production. I listen to hip-hop/rap and will record it but find the challenges to be greater as you often have more inexperienced artists with poor quality beats/tracks, or no tracs at all, and many of them are frustrated to hear what they sound like when their voice is clear and forward in a mix. Your ability to "fix it" is often limited more so than in other genres. What you mention is exactly why I don't do it...I just don't know the genre. There's TONS of rap work available. I think because everybody can AT LEAST talk. I would say that out of the jobs available out there it's probably 60% rap...Maybe I should start listening. I respect that^. Many guys will take whatever jobs they can get because everyone's cash is green. I'll decline work if I don't feel I can truly benefit the artist. That said, if you are presented canned beats (which many inexperienced rappers have) it's not terribly hard to familiarize yourself with the general sonics of the genre and it essentially becomes finessing a 2-track beat with a vocal on it. Understanding the identity of the artist himself/herself is the key because, as with many forms of music, there's lot of mimicry involved and most want to have their production sound like a certain artist or trend. Trends in rap are very fleeting. |
|
|
|
Post by subspace on Oct 21, 2017 18:11:24 GMT -6
Fitting a vocal to a pre-mixed beat is actually a great exercise for engineers, one which I've learned a vast amount from.
I mix christian rock, death metal, tejano, country, big band, punk rock, classical, it would be weird to exclude a particular genre based on my listening habits.
Would we have the "Reign in Blood" or "Nevermind" mixes if Andy Wallace hadn't made his nut mixing 80's NY R&B?
I can actually bring a lot more of my own arrangement/production sensibilities to a rap session.
|
|
|
|
Post by swurveman on Oct 21, 2017 18:22:49 GMT -6
Yes. I take all the work I can get.
|
|
|
|
Post by schmalzy on Oct 23, 2017 10:31:47 GMT -6
For sure!
There's a ton to learn from listening to hip hop. The low end is crazy on a lot of it. Huge. How do I port that to rock/country/etc.? Can I?
Also, there's a lot to learn from the vocal production itself. Lots of layers, lots of doubles, lots of "harmonies" (different articulation/voices/affectations in the rap), lots of rhythms, and lots of energy added by some non-standard-for-how-my-brain-works layering or adlibs.
I dig it, for sure. The energy and vibe of the vocal is EVERYTHING for that genre and I think that focus on vocals has reminded me of how much attention should go into the vibe of vocals in other genres, too.
|
|
ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 14,934 
|
Post by ericn on Oct 23, 2017 11:36:54 GMT -6
So much of this for me depends on the role, I don't feel comfortable enough to act as producer, as engineer if there is someone else to sit in the producers chair making those decisions no problem but if not I'm just not the guy.
It's not because I don't enjoy rap I have done plenty of jobs where I hated the music and did a decent job, I just don't want somebody wasting their money and time on me or putting something out there with my name that isn't up to snuff!
|
|
|
|
Post by johneppstein on Oct 23, 2017 20:31:17 GMT -6
For sure! There's a ton to learn from listening to hip hop. The low end is crazy on a lot of it. Huge. How do I port that to rock/country/etc.? Can I? Why in heaven's name would you want to inflict a rap/hip-hop style bass on a country production? It's like putting cayenne pepper in your apple pie instead of nutmeg! Some things are appropriate. Some things aren't. Knowing what is and what isn't is a important part of developing taste. |
|
ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 14,934
|
Post by ericn on Oct 23, 2017 20:39:36 GMT -6
For sure! There's a ton to learn from listening to hip hop. The low end is crazy on a lot of it. Huge. How do I port that to rock/country/etc.? Can I? Why in heaven's name would you want to inflict a rap/hip-hop style bass on a country production? It's like putting cayenne pepper in your apple pie instead of nutmeg! Some things are appropriate. Some things aren't. Knowing what is and what isn't is a important part of developing taste. In the high end foodie universe they call that fusion! Let's hope Bobby Flay isn't lurking 😎 |
|
|
|
Post by Tbone81 on Oct 23, 2017 21:24:32 GMT -6
For sure! There's a ton to learn from listening to hip hop. The low end is crazy on a lot of it. Huge. How do I port that to rock/country/etc.? Can I? Why in heaven's name would you want to inflict a rap/hip-hop style bass on a country production? It's like putting cayenne pepper in your apple pie instead of nutmeg! Some things are appropriate. Some things aren't. Knowing what is and what isn't is a important part of developing taste. You don't get why learning to control and shape massive amounts of low end is a useful skill that can be used in a different genre? I hardly think schmalzy is being so literal and saying that you should make a country song sound like a hip hop production. Maybe you missed the "Can I?" part of his statement. As in, its important to take the lessons you've learned from one area of music and see if, and how, they might apply to something else. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2017 21:35:51 GMT -6
For sure! There's a ton to learn from listening to hip hop. The low end is crazy on a lot of it. Huge. How do I port that to rock/country/etc.? Can I? Absolutely. Plenty of in demand Nashville guys experimenting with this currently. Check out Keith Urban's latest album 'Ripcord'. A few hip hop/crossover producers on that one. Sam Hunt is accused/celebrated (depending on where you fall you on the open/closeminded spectrum) for leading the "hick hop" movement. Tame Impala is another interesting one on the more rock/shoegaze side. You're on the right track to want to experiment. Don't listen to anyone who tells you differently. They're scared. |
|
|
|
Post by Bob Olhsson on Oct 23, 2017 22:31:35 GMT -6
A lot of the most successful rap was recorded in front of a studio audience!
|
|
|
|
Post by adamjbrass on Oct 24, 2017 8:25:03 GMT -6
Recording Rap is a valuable skill to suffer through. But when you work with real hip-hop artists, its a blessing. I know a lot of guys making tons of cash recording trap rap and such. Get paid, buy stuff, live your life. Rappers love that shit.
But I love working with amazing hip hop artists. In the last few years have been able to work with some local and world legendary cats...Truly easy and fun to work with. Recording Everyone's rap vocals is a crazy weird skill to have if you ask me.
|
|
|
|
Post by svart on Oct 24, 2017 8:32:54 GMT -6
I've been asked many times if I "make beats" or "do rap".
Honestly I've turned down a lot, mainly for the same reason as John, which is that I don't listen to rap and have no idea how to do it any justice at all. I've done some R&B stuff that turned out good, but it was more like rock than pure rap.
I'll admit that it sounds cliche', but here in the ATL there are also a disproportionate amount of rap "studios" that get broken into and/or happen to have extreme violence happen during sessions..
|
|
|
|
Post by schmalzy on Oct 24, 2017 10:28:02 GMT -6
For sure! There's a ton to learn from listening to hip hop. The low end is crazy on a lot of it. Huge. How do I port that to rock/country/etc.? Can I? Why in heaven's name would you want to inflict a rap/hip-hop style bass on a country production? It's like putting cayenne pepper in your apple pie instead of nutmeg! Some things are appropriate. Some things aren't. Knowing what is and what isn't is a important part of developing taste. I wrote two semi-long responses to your comment: One was explaining how I'm not trying to copy the technical amount/type of low end to country music but how I'm trying to take the feeling of that big, enveloping, and/or hard-hitting low end and put that feeling into other genres. I'd love to figure out how to get a country kick to make booties shake like a hip hop kick does - Billy Decker figured it out but I haven't. The other was a bit sassy. In it I noted while your work might be good (I haven't listened and probably wouldn't understand it anyway) I often find your responses to myself and others quite off-putting. Maybe it's because I don't think you're hearing me the way I want to be heard. Maybe the exact same is true from your perspective. I'm unsure what's going on but would love to find a way around that. In lieu of making anyone read either of those retina-burning walls of text: Thank you for your input. |
|
|
|
Post by johneppstein on Oct 24, 2017 10:28:15 GMT -6
Why in heaven's name would you want to inflict a rap/hip-hop style bass on a country production? It's like putting cayenne pepper in your apple pie instead of nutmeg! Some things are appropriate. Some things aren't. Knowing what is and what isn't is a important part of developing taste. In the high end foodie universe they call that fusion! Let's hope Bobby Flay isn't lurking 😎 Actually that's a reference to a funny(?) family story from the days when I was very young and my mother was just learning to cook... |
|
|
|
Post by johneppstein on Oct 24, 2017 10:36:28 GMT -6
Why in heaven's name would you want to inflict a rap/hip-hop style bass on a country production? It's like putting cayenne pepper in your apple pie instead of nutmeg! Some things are appropriate. Some things aren't. Knowing what is and what isn't is a important part of developing taste. I wrote two semi-long responses to your comment: One was explaining how I'm not trying to copy the technical amount/type of low end to country music but how I'm trying to take the feeling of that big, enveloping, and/or hard-hitting low end and put that feeling into other genres. I'd love to figure out how to get a country kick to make booties shake like a hip hop kick does - Billy Decker figured it out but I haven't. The other was a bit sassy. In it I noted while your work might be good (I haven't listened and probably wouldn't understand it anyway) I often find your responses to myself and others quite off-putting. Maybe it's because I don't think you're hearing me the way I want to be heard. Maybe the exact same is true from your perspective. I'm unsure what's going on but would love to find a way around that. In lieu of making anyone read either of those retina-burning walls of text: Thank you for your input. I don't think you really understand country music. And I don't think you're alone in that these days. Maybe I'm old fashioned, but I don't believe that country music should sound "urban", if you get what I mean. Like that song JohnKenn just posted (best new country song I've heard in a long, long time) - a "hard-hitting low end" would ruin it, sure as autotune. You want country with a good, danceable beat? Listen to some truck drivin' music. Or some Doug Kershaw cajun fiddle tunes. There's plenty of country that's some of the most danceable music around - no need to bastardize it. |
|
|
|
Post by johneppstein on Oct 24, 2017 10:40:07 GMT -6
I've been asked many times if I "make beats" or "do rap". Honestly I've turned down a lot, mainly for the same reason as John, which is that I don't listen to rap and have no idea how to do it any justice at all. I've done some R&B stuff that turned out good, but it was more like rock than pure rap. I'll admit that it sounds cliche', but here in the ATL there are also a disproportionate amount of rap "studios" that get broken into and/or happen to have extreme violence happen during sessions.. Yeah. I disassociated myself from that quite some time ago because I'm allergic to having guns shoved in my face. Not that that has anything to do with musical influences. |
|
|
|
Post by johneppstein on Oct 24, 2017 10:50:14 GMT -6
Why in heaven's name would you want to inflict a rap/hip-hop style bass on a country production? It's like putting cayenne pepper in your apple pie instead of nutmeg! Some things are appropriate. Some things aren't. Knowing what is and what isn't is a important part of developing taste. You don't get why learning to control and shape massive amounts of low end is a useful skill that can be used in a different genre? I hardly think schmalzy is being so literal and saying that you should make a country song sound like a hip hop production. Maybe you missed the "Can I?" part of his statement. As in, its important to take the lessons you've learned from one area of music and see if, and how, they might apply to something else. You could say the same thing about applying metal sensibilities to country. And I'm all in favor or cross-application of knowledge - which includes having the sense to know when NOT to do it. Some things are appropriate, some things aren't. A common comment I've heard in the last year or so is that "modern" country isn't anything but pop/rock sung though the nose. I don't approve - commercial music is becoming homogenized and it's a bad thing. I'm going to resist the impulse to embark on an historical rant on that subject at this time... and I'm not just talking about country. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2017 1:47:56 GMT -6
I master it, I love working on Hip Hop/Rap/Trap etc.
|
|
|
|
Post by hasbeen on Oct 28, 2017 18:14:38 GMT -6
This RAP thing is just a trend.
It won't last long.
|
|
|
|
Post by Ward on Oct 28, 2017 19:20:22 GMT -6
This RAP thing is just a trend. It won't last long. It's already too late. Rap is dead. |
|
