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Post by topshelfmg on Oct 16, 2017 22:07:21 GMT -6
I'm pretty much fully switched over from 7 or so years of Logic to Cubase Pro 9... at least for editing and mixing. And in almost every way, I think Cubase is way better. But when asking about and looking into "low latency mode" for recording... or in Cubase's case... direct monitoring, it appears it isn't working. It is grayed out. And when I searched online, it appears that (as of 2011) Mac cannot support ASIO direct monitoring. This is a big deal if I can't do this and have to rely strictly on buffer size... so considering 6 years is a LONG time in computer years... is there now a solution? Do I have to use the built in Motu 16a DSP mixer? Cause I thought I had finally gotten away from mixers like that...
This is pretty worrying. I'm praying one of you have a solution! I could record in Logic and bounce to Cubase, but Logic has pretty terrible export options when it comes to stems... and really, pretty terrible export/bouncing features in general.
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Post by ChaseUTB on Oct 16, 2017 22:40:46 GMT -6
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Post by topshelfmg on Oct 16, 2017 23:08:22 GMT -6
Oh wait... there is an "adjust for record latency button" now. Maybe that is the workaround. |
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Post by topshelfmg on Oct 16, 2017 23:12:42 GMT -6
And unfortunately, those are the 2 articles that had me worried in the first place when I realized it was grayed out. |
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Post by popmann on Oct 17, 2017 0:45:04 GMT -6
There's not a secondary driver to select on the Device setup page where that's greyed out? If not, you're in the majority. You have to have a driver written to support it. The trend has been for more and more companies to reply on class compliancy on the Mac side....I think if you compare your LPX input then pull the fader all the way down (so it's silent)--and enable that input on the MOTU hardware mixer, you'll see there's a difference in Logic. I could be wrong, but I DID get a good chuckle when I was sent this the other day: www.apogeedigital.com/blog/ensemble-element-integrate-logic-pro-easily-eliminate-latencyI thought "what is old is new again"....it's like a full fledged 1998 Windows DAW up in here now. Just enable the hardware monitoring from inside Nuendo you say? You're not going to get better driver writers than here: www.forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=24115 |
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Post by ChaseUTB on Oct 17, 2017 6:54:46 GMT -6
What’s your interface?
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Post by popmann on Oct 17, 2017 8:44:56 GMT -6
He's using a MOTU 16a according to his post.
But see my RME link. "Not possible on OSX". That company bends over backwards to implement the best driver possible.
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Post by ChaseUTB on Oct 17, 2017 9:58:45 GMT -6
I thought ASIO was windows based and Core audio is Mac..
Why not use the dsp mixer in the interface? I assume because Mike wants to record with plugins or auto tune.
If so, then you can’t use direct or low latency monitoring you have to set a buffer.. that’s how I read/ understood the Cubase article.
I am on OS X Lion . PT 10 32 bit, 64 sample buffer no issues recording with plugins.. but low latency monitoring will not work with latent plugs
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Post by adamjbrass on Oct 17, 2017 11:22:52 GMT -6
If you have a strong enough machine, it can buffer 32 or 64 samples. You need a Space Rocket to park it at 32.....
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Post by popmann on Oct 17, 2017 13:34:08 GMT -6
I thought ASIO was windows based and Core audio is Mac.. Why not use the dsp mixer in the interface? Inasdume maybe due to Auto Tune, If so, then you can’t use direct or low latency monitoring you have to set a buffer.. that’s how I read the article .. I am on OS X Lion . PT 10 32 bit, 64 sample buffer no issues recording with plugins.. but low latency monitoring will not work with latent plugs No....using autotune (or whatever input side plug) requires software monitoring. Always (barring Apollo/HDX type systems where plug ins can run ON the hardware mixer). It's actually WHY Apple won't allow direct monitoring. It confuses people....apparently. Just for background, maybe it needs to be spelled out what direct monitoring does. It means that when you hit "monitor" (or input monitor--whatever enables live monitoring of your input in your DAW) the application tells the HARDWARE mixer in your interface to loop the input back to the output. Otherwise, there's ZERO (latency)difference in using the control panel to control the hardware mixer of your interface, or using Cubase/Nuendo's channel ui--the one that you record to? I never had to go to a control panel mixer for YEARS....back when computers were a lot slower ironically. I never understood why people put up with ProToolsLE's lack of one....it was ALWAYS a software cue....because the answer was "if you can tell the difference--you need a TDM rig". Why so many Digi001 and 002s even sat next to analog mixing consoles. This is really a a sad development. Not unexpected, though. Apple's been moving away from professional audio for years. As another "old guy historical perspective"--everyone assumed faster processors....and faster busses (PCIe)....would bring the ability to run super low latency software montioring. But, no one ever told plug in developers they couldn't write latent plug ins--and while I've argue a 32sample buffer is still too mushy....even if you are fine with that--you're not fine with that AFTER you insert a USB or Firewire "safety buffer" latency....and THEN do the compensation needed for the latent plug ins ELSEWHERE in the software mixer....you can't...ever--it doesn't matter how fast the processor is....which is why UA and Steinberg and MOTU and RME--everyone started including reverb and EQ and compressor type DSP on their HARDWARE mixers....when they realized that tech wasn't going to ever "get there". |
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Post by ChaseUTB on Oct 17, 2017 13:45:22 GMT -6
popmannYou repeated exactly what I said ... I added a few spaces to edit so you can maybe read it more clearly ? My system works great and I have no issues recording or monitoring however I want. I was trying to help my buddy Mike..
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Post by swurveman on Oct 17, 2017 15:17:16 GMT -6
popmann You repeated exactly what I said ... I added a few spaces to edit so you can maybe read it more clearly ? My system works great and I have no issues recording or monitoring however I want. I was trying to help my buddy Mike.. What do you use Chase? And how many plugins can you use while tracking/ monitoring before you hear latency? I've been reading up on the UA forums and read posts like this and wonder how great these dsp based mixers really are for tracking with plugins. |
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Post by popmann on Oct 17, 2017 16:44:23 GMT -6
PT 10 doesn't HAVE direct monitoring on a native system, Chase. But, then neither did Mike's Logic system even though he thought it did. Swurve DOES have the gold standard for ASIO DM--and I'd almost bet has it disabled....  I'm certainly not trying to be argumentative. I'm trying to make sure all involved (and that includes reading) what direct monitoring IS....and isn't. I know everyone wants to help. I'm sorry if my leading "no...." implied my whole post was some sort of rebuttal. |
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Post by swurveman on Oct 17, 2017 17:57:03 GMT -6
PT 10 doesn't HAVE direct monitoring on a native system, Chase. But, then neither did Mike's Logic system even though he thought it did. Swurve DOES have the gold standard for ASIO DM--and I'd almost bet has it disabled.... I'm certainly not trying to be argumentative. I'm trying to make sure all involved (and that includes reading) what direct monitoring IS....and isn't. I know everyone wants to help. I'm sorry if my leading "no...." implied my whole post was some sort of rebuttal. Yep, I never use ADM. I use the Totalmix mixer faders for level for the cue mixes and to see the input level to Cubase before pressing record on the Cubase channels. Of course, I have to use my hardware LA2A with a patchbay instead of a software plugin. The horror lol! |
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Post by ChaseUTB on Oct 17, 2017 19:35:02 GMT -6
popmann You repeated exactly what I said ... I added a few spaces to edit so you can maybe read it more clearly ? My system works great and I have no issues recording or monitoring however I want. I was trying to help my buddy Mike.. What do you use Chase? And how many plugins can you use while tracking/ monitoring before you hear latency? I've been reading up on the UA forums and read posts like this and wonder how great these dsp based mixers really are for tracking with plugins. I will have to read that post a few more times.. I am not sure if the guy’s system is setup correctly. I had that issue early on with my Apollo. I have used Console to track thru plugs and Verb but having two mixers is annoying. I have used it before with plugins and never really noticed some huge phases or sample delays, my UAD Console and setup is in PT Mode.. All tracks grid and playback in time or as intended by recording.. My setup: 2012 9.1 MBP 15” Quad core i7 2.6ghz, PT Native 10.3.1 on Lion or El Cap & 12.4. Record to external OWC 7200 via USB 3. Stock or Outboard pre, No UAD Console. I do use the low cut sometimes on the Apollo input channel via front button on Apollo if using the stock pre. 64 sample Buffer Size. 85% and 7 cores. Audio tracks armed with waves Renn Q2 for HPF if not using Apollo one, Auto Tune 5 or EFX, and Waves RComp.. All track inserts ... make 2 sends off the audio track .. Verb ( Waves R Verb or PT DVerb ) & 1/4 Dly ( Stock Delay ) ... this is vox ... Guitar and vox would be similar just more inputs.. Rarely track drums tho and if we do it’s at the other studio with PT HD and BLA modded 192’s.. . Have not noticed multiple simultaneous recording inputs affecting performance but have not recorded 32 inputs simultaneously... If I was more than likely HDX would be what I would use The only time I get errors is when the laptop gets hot and fans go crazy. Usually on playback tho not recording. |
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Post by popmann on Oct 17, 2017 20:01:45 GMT -6
I once asked on the Cubase forum....without regard to OS, I think it was something like 95% don't use ADM. It was similar to the number of people there who use the fully (and automatically) compensated hardware inserts. All the things that Steinberg and RME did to make a software system functionally compete with a $30k hardware system....are now not used.
So, Cubase Mac users....give Mike some ideas on lowering his input latency of his software cue? I wish I hadn't just ended my 30 day demo of C9....I'd play around with the buffers and various new ASIO Guard settings and whatnot.
I can help you get something from Logic to Cubase and back. I disagree that the export options are...."pretty terrible". Export a region....a whole track....a set of tracks you select....export a AuxBus and it exports your stem file.....choices to ignore or use fader and automation and inserts....normalize or not....maybe cubase has fixed that, but it was the one where that's time consuming and easy to do it wrong and end up without timestamps....or making stereo files out of your mono tracks.....
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Post by swurveman on Oct 18, 2017 7:48:44 GMT -6
I'm pretty much fully switched over from 7 or so years of Logic to Cubase Pro 9... at least for editing and mixing. And in almost every way, I think Cubase is way better. But when asking about and looking into "low latency mode" for recording... or in Cubase's case... direct monitoring, it appears it isn't working. It is grayed out. And when I searched online, it appears that (as of 2011) Mac cannot support ASIO direct monitoring. This is a big deal if I can't do this and have to rely strictly on buffer size... so considering 6 years is a LONG time in computer years... is there now a solution? Do I have to use the built in Motu 16a DSP mixer? Cause I thought I had finally gotten away from mixers like that... This is pretty worrying. I'm praying one of you have a solution! I could record in Logic and bounce to Cubase, but Logic has pretty terrible export options when it comes to stems... and really, pretty terrible export/bouncing features in general. Is the Motu mixer with the Motu 16a low latency? If so, use that for recording instead of the Cubase mixer. I had a former partner who came from a Pro Tools core system that hated having to use a seperate mixer for recording, but I just toggle between my RME Totalmix mixer- which is very low latency- and Cubase. I don't know how the Motu mixer works, but my RME mixer inputs are routed to my cue mix outputs and I just adjust the faders -which only control the output to the cue mix outputs not the level coming into Cubase. For the level coming into Cubase to be recorded, I adjust the input level at the preamps. Once I like the recording levels and the cue mix levels, I toggle to the Cubase Project Window where I've set up the corresponding inputs for each Cubase channel and hit record. I don't know anything about the latency of the plugins, since my RME interface did not have a dsp chip and my Totalmix mixer has no FX. I record hardware FX via my patchbay. I think all of these dsp mixers have higher latency when engaging the FX, but I don't know what the breaking point is where is is obvious. I always assumed these devices were to be used in conjuntion with your DAW, with the dsp interface plugin to be used for tracking and your other plugins to be used inside the DAW for mixing. However, if your Motu is to be used seperate from the DAW, I'd return it if you can't mix without any latency compensation. Cubase has a built in Plugin Delay Compensation. So, you should not be hearing any latency using plugins for mixing with the Cubase mixer. I don't. |
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