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Post by Vincent R. on Oct 15, 2017 22:20:14 GMT -6
I have a session on Wednesday for digital piano, female lead vocals, male BG vocals, and recorder. I'm just trying to determine which microphone I should use for the recorder.
I'll likely use the U87ai on the female soprano vocalist and the BLUE Bottle Rocket with B7 for the male BG vocals. I'm just not sure what microphone to use on the recorder.
Aside from the two microphones above, my thoughts are my CM49 (M49 style mic), the MK U67 or CM67LE (which I worry about being a bit dark), my Altec 639 Ribbon in either cardioid or Fig 8, and I always have an SM57 as a back up.
I was wondering if anyone has recorded a recorder and what they used.
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Post by drbill on Oct 15, 2017 23:09:23 GMT -6
A ribbon is good. Don't anything about the Altec or the style you are recording, but generally a ribbon works well for me. if not a ribbon, a Gefell with an M7 n it like a UM70 or M71 works really great. That will give a breathier more modern tone.
If the ribbon doesn't work, I'd probably use one of the 67's. Dark is generally your friend here. Especially if you're mic-ing close. I wouldn't use the 57. LOL
Have fun!
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Post by Vincent R. on Oct 15, 2017 23:48:08 GMT -6
Style is classical. Thanks.
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Post by ericn on Oct 16, 2017 7:57:27 GMT -6
A pair of SDC's works well at a couple of feet but depending on choice can be a bit bright.
Careful with distance and getting to close I always find even the best players tend to move around to much and this can be distracting.
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Post by ChaseUTB on Oct 16, 2017 8:50:37 GMT -6
A recorder from 3rd grade ? Sm7 all the way
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Post by Vincent R. on Oct 16, 2017 8:52:31 GMT -6
A pair of SDC's works well at a couple of feet but depending on choice can be a bit bright. Careful with distance and getting to close I always find even the best players tend to move around to much and this can be distracting. Unfortunately I don't have a good pair of SDCs. I have a pair if AT3525s which are MDCs, but they're bright. No worries about mic distance. I'm big on the 2-4 ft method with acoustic instruments. Don't want to pick up too much of my room though. |
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Post by Vincent R. on Oct 16, 2017 8:54:22 GMT -6
A recorder from 3rd grade ? Sm7 all the way Yeah. Recorders are pretty popular in traditional Irish hymns, which is what this is. I heard a demo they recorded with their phone and this guy can play too. Think the theme to Titanic. |
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Post by mulmany on Oct 16, 2017 9:36:52 GMT -6
I was expecting a multi track recorder backup recorder thread!
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Post by Martin John Butler on Oct 16, 2017 9:43:06 GMT -6
Ribbon or 67.
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Post by svart on Oct 16, 2017 9:48:34 GMT -6
Never liked ribbon for woodwinds, it loses all of the nuance. For me, a little brightness in woodwind mixes is a good thing, especially if the recorder is going to be a centerpiece to the mix.
Try a SDC a couple feet back and a foot or two higher, pointing down towards the holes. Don't let the mic get too in line with any of the holes or else you'll get strange timbrel peaks. That's worked well for me on other woods like clarinet.
Also, have the player stay as still as possible.
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Post by EmRR on Oct 16, 2017 10:08:34 GMT -6
With the distance you use, and the sonic competition, I'd worry about using anything dark. Of what you've listed, if it's live all together, probably the 49. Overdub; then experiment.
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Post by johneppstein on Oct 16, 2017 12:51:32 GMT -6
A pair of SDC's works well at a couple of feet but depending on choice can be a bit bright. Careful with distance and getting to close I always find even the best players tend to move around to much and this can be distracting. Why a pair? it's a MONO instrument! If it's a solo recording maybe add a pair of room mics, but otherwise I don't see why you'd need 2 mics. Do you have a KM84? |
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Post by Vincent R. on Oct 16, 2017 13:41:31 GMT -6
A pair of SDC's works well at a couple of feet but depending on choice can be a bit bright. Careful with distance and getting to close I always find even the best players tend to move around to much and this can be distracting. Why a pair? it's a MONO instrument! If it's a solo recording maybe add a pair of room mics, but otherwise I don't see why you'd need 2 mics. Do you have a KM84? I don't. The SDCs are on my list, but after I pick up the FLEA 49.  |
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Post by Vincent R. on Oct 16, 2017 13:42:38 GMT -6
With the distance you use, and the sonic competition, I'd worry about using anything dark. Of what you've listed, if it's live all together, probably the 49. Overdub, then experiment. That was my thought to. It's a solo instrument, so I may just do a quick test with a couple of mics and go from there. |
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Post by ericn on Oct 16, 2017 17:24:41 GMT -6
A pair of SDC's works well at a couple of feet but depending on choice can be a bit bright. Careful with distance and getting to close I always find even the best players tend to move around to much and this can be distracting. Why a pair? it's a MONO instrument! If it's a solo recording maybe add a pair of room mics, but otherwise I don't see why you'd need 2 mics. Do you have a KM84? One of those things where it just seamed to work better, was never going for stereo just always seamed to work better balancing a pair because of the movement. You know it was one of those things that worked after a fight to get it right and after that always seamed to work so why mess with it😁! |
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Post by jazznoise on Oct 16, 2017 18:00:45 GMT -6
A recorder from 3rd grade ? Sm7 all the way Yeah. Recorders are pretty popular in traditional Irish hymns, which is what this is. I heard a demo they recorded with their phone and this guy can play too. Think the theme to Titanic. There's a mix up here. A recorder, to me, specifically refers to the reed based instruments with the keys you blow into through a tube with a moutpeice. What you're referring to is what I'd called a tin whistle. I've recorded tin whistle, and trad in general, a fair few times. As it's a small wind instrument the fluctuations in volume can be wild and the perception of reverb is not that noticeable, so distance is your friend. Depending on the player's preference varying from above (more of a classical, balanced flute sound) to in front (trad players tend to like this, less of the breathy sound but a lot of tonal variation note by note). A reasonably even handed SDC like an Oktava mk012 will work well, I've gotten good results about 18" above the players head angled so the capsule is perpendicular to the whistle itself. |
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Post by Vincent R. on Oct 16, 2017 18:13:04 GMT -6
jazznoise , I'm not sure if it's a cheap recorder or the high quality instrument version. Thanks for your thoughts though.
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Post by Vincent R. on Oct 17, 2017 11:28:40 GMT -6
All set for my session tomorrow. Pulled out some mics to try on the singers and the recorder. My thoughts are U87 on soprano lead vox, Blue B7 on baritone bg vox, and CM49 in fig 8 for recorder. The CM49 may also work for either vocalist. Also put out my ribbon just in case. 😉
I have a feeling the ribbon is going to be a little too noisy for such a simple arrangement. It also may be a little too dark.
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Post by johneppstein on Oct 17, 2017 13:46:22 GMT -6
Yeah. Recorders are pretty popular in traditional Irish hymns, which is what this is. I heard a demo they recorded with their phone and this guy can play too. Think the theme to Titanic. There's a mix up here. A recorder, to me, specifically refers to the reed based instruments with the keys you blow into through a tube with a moutpeice. What you're referring to is what I'd called a tin whistle. I've recorded tin whistle, and trad in general, a fair few times. As it's a small wind instrument the fluctuations in volume can be wild and the perception of reverb is not that noticeable, so distance is your friend. Depending on the player's preference varying from above (more of a classical, balanced flute sound) to in front (trad players tend to like this, less of the breathy sound but a lot of tonal variation note by note). A reasonably even handed SDC like an Oktava mk012 will work well, I've gotten good results about 18" above the players head angled so the capsule is perpendicular to the whistle itself. A recorder is a member of the flute family, no reeds. Although because of the type of mouthpiece it looks a bit like a reed instrument. It also doesn't have keys, it has 7 holes and a thumb hole. |
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Post by jazznoise on Oct 17, 2017 14:42:45 GMT -6
I promise you that no one in Ireland plays trad on an instrument called a recorder. For us it's an alias of the melodica.
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Post by johneppstein on Oct 17, 2017 16:11:28 GMT -6
I promise you that no one in Ireland plays trad on an instrument called a recorder. For us it's an alias of the melodica. I believe that in Ireland a similar (but not identical - different number of holes) instrument is called the penny whistle, among several other names. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tin_whistleen.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recorder_(musical_instrument)The melodica is a totally different instrument, related to the harmonica, the accordian, and the pump organ, among others. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MelodicaI'm sorry, but anyone who confuses a melodica with a recorder is just a wee bit ignorant. Correction: Earlier I said that recorders don't have keys. Actually some of the larger versions (tenor and up) do have a few primitive keys similar to those on some other members of the Flute family, to allow all the holes to be covered. They do not have piano style keys like a melodica. |
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Post by drbill on Oct 17, 2017 16:25:26 GMT -6
As John mentioned : A recorder is not a penny whistle, it's not a tin whistle, it's not a melodica, and it's not "officially" a WW or reed instrument, although generally they are played by WW players. The cheapo ones are plastic, but the classic ones that most real WW players would own are made of wood. There are various sizes made and shown below, but the most popular ones are the traditional Sporano, Alto, Tenor, & Bass instruments. Bass recorder - especially several Bass Recorders - are super cool. Recorders in general are notoriously "soft" and not given to wild fluctuations of dynamics. They are not Irish, they are baroque and classical in direction - think Europe in the middle ages - and are used in film music a fair bit, especially in the 70/80/90's before synth colors kind of pushed them out of vogue. : en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recorder_(musical_instrument) |
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Post by Vincent R. on Oct 18, 2017 18:44:19 GMT -6
Session got postponed, because people suck at time management...... actors! |
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Post by ericn on Oct 18, 2017 21:43:28 GMT -6
Session got postponed, because people suck at time management...... actors! Yeah, but you should hear what theatre people say about those opera divas, or us techs about "talent "😎 |
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Post by Vincent R. on Oct 18, 2017 21:53:33 GMT -6
Session got postponed, because people suck at time management...... actors! Yeah, but you should hear what theatre people say about those opera divas, or us techs about "talent "😎 It's always been fun to be on all sides of entertainement; starting as an actor, getting into the recording session game, moving into opera as my voice matured, becoming a tech out of necessity. At the end of the day I still preferred hanging with the musicians. |
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