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Post by nashbass on Oct 15, 2017 13:33:19 GMT -6
Hey all,
I'm putting together a new rack for my small home studio and would appreciate input on how to best arrange and order the gear (top to bottom). And, if you'd be so kind, please illustrate why. The gear that I currently know will definitely be going in the rack is:
Furman power conditioner Patch bay Rack tuner Teegarden Audio mic pre Avalon U5 Chandler Limited RS 124 compressor Power amp
Expecting to continue adding with probably another mic pre. And who knows what else? Thanks so much!
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Post by swurveman on Oct 15, 2017 13:43:11 GMT -6
How many rack spaces are there? Where are the switches on the patch bay? What kind of patch bay is it?
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Post by nashbass on Oct 15, 2017 13:46:47 GMT -6
Honestly, I'm about to order the rack. I'm looking at either a 12 or 14-space rack as what I have so far accounts for 10 spaces and I want to have a little room to grow. For my small space I am looking at the Behringer Ultrapatch Pro PX 3000. Though I don't have the patch bay just yet so I am open to suggestions.
And I do already have a 2-space rack made by the same rack builder. So I can easily set that on top of the new slant rack I'm getting. That opens up a couple spaces.
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Post by drbill on Oct 15, 2017 15:43:08 GMT -6
- Tuner on top. - Power amp on bottom. - Power conditioner 2 space up from top of power amp - that will allow room for amp to breath and for the AC cables to lay on top of the amp. I normally put power conditioners on the bottom, but with an amp in the rack, you'll never be able to get to it if it's under the amp. - Patch bay directly above power conditioner - Blank perforated single panel between amp and power conditioner - The rest of the stuff wherever you like - or what looks best. - I'd also leave a blank perforated space above the RS124
Always, always, always buy way more rack spaces than you think you will need. Personally, I'd go 18 for your setup. Room to grow.....
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Post by swurveman on Oct 15, 2017 15:53:51 GMT -6
Honestly, I'm about to order the rack. I'm looking at either a 12 or 14-space rack as what I have so far accounts for 10 spaces and I want to have a little room to grow. For my small space I am looking at the Behringer Ultrapatch Pro PX 3000. Though I don't have the patch bay just yet so I am open to suggestions. And I do already have a 2-space rack made by the same rack builder. So I can easily set that on top of the new slant rack I'm getting. That opens up a couple spaces. The reason I asked about the patchbay is that if a patchbay has the switches on the top of the bay, you're gonna need a space (or two) on the top to get to those switches. I also think patchbays should be as close to the mix position as possible, as you're gonna want to hear what it sounds like when you patch gear. You didn't talk about adda, but if you're gonna patch your mic pre outs to the compressor and back into the a/d in you want your converters close enough for the connectors to reach the bay. I have my Furman's at the bottom so that the power cords can fall down and plug in. You just want to make sure all the power cords can reach the Furman.
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Post by ChaseUTB on Oct 15, 2017 15:59:13 GMT -6
What does a furman actually do?
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Post by johneppstein on Oct 15, 2017 16:40:03 GMT -6
Honestly, I'm about to order the rack. I'm looking at either a 12 or 14-space rack as what I have so far accounts for 10 spaces and I want to have a little room to grow. For my small space I am looking at the Behringer Ultrapatch Pro PX 3000. Though I don't have the patch bay just yet so I am open to suggestions. And I do already have a 2-space rack made by the same rack builder. So I can easily set that on top of the new slant rack I'm getting. That opens up a couple spaces. The reason I asked about the patchbay is that if a patchbay has the switches on the top of the bay, you're gonna need a space (or two) on the top to get to those switches. I also think patchbays should be as close to the mix position as possible, as you're gonna want to hear what it sounds like when you patch gear. You didn't talk about adda, but if you're gonna patch your mic pre outs to the compressor and back into the a/d in you want your converters close enough for the connectors to reach the bay. I have my Furman's at the bottom so that the power cords can fall down and plug in. You just want to make sure all the power cords can reach the Furman. Switches? What for? None of my bays have switches, not the ones in the console or the ones in the rack. Am I missing something?
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Post by nashbass on Oct 15, 2017 16:50:26 GMT -6
RE: patchbay switches -- The Behringer Ultrapatch Pro PX3000 has top-side switches which make it easy for you to choose the mode for each respective channel (Normal, Thru, Half-Normal).
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Post by Tbone81 on Oct 15, 2017 17:36:36 GMT -6
What dr bill said, also look at how your power cables are oriented on the back of your gear. As you're putting pieces in it helps if you can arrange to have most of the power cables on the same side. Buy some Velcro cable ties for everything. Good cable management will make your life a lot easier.
Also, is recommend the Samson S patch. Has switched on the front face plate, and imho is slightly better build than the Behringer (I've owned both).
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Post by Tbone81 on Oct 15, 2017 17:40:07 GMT -6
What does a furman actually do? Nothing much, they're basically just rack mounted surge protectors.
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Post by nashbass on Oct 15, 2017 17:55:42 GMT -6
And, depending on the model, a Furman power conditioner can help clean and filter the power running thru your gear. Also, a basic surge protector can be useless after one good spike. A good power conditioner, however, is built to continue to stand up to power inconsistencies. An audio engineer friend recently said, "The quality of the AC power is significant to the quality of the audio coming out of that gear.... It will serve the best in keeping the audio clean in the analog gear as well as offering protection."
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Post by mulmany on Oct 15, 2017 18:00:15 GMT -6
What does a furman actually do? Nothing much, they're basically just rack mounted surge protectors. Well, it depends on the unit. If it's the generic ones sold at GC and the like then it's MOV surge protectors and an easy way to turn your equipment off. Stay away from the cheap merit series just use a fused power strip.
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Post by Tbone81 on Oct 15, 2017 18:19:51 GMT -6
And, depending on the model, a Furman power conditioner can help clean and filter the power running thru your gear. Also, a basic surge protector can be useless after one good spike. A good power conditioner, however, is built to continue to stand up to power inconsistencies. An audio engineer friend recently said, "The quality of the AC power is significant to the quality of the audio coming out of that gear.... It will serve the best in keeping the audio clean in the analog gear as well as offering protection." You're right but those are generally the more expensive units. The $80-120 range power conditioners that most people are probably familiar with are just fancy surge protectors. Nothing wrong with that btw, I find them very useful. Just don't buy the hype that the GC guys tell you when they're trying to up-sell you from the $80 furman to $120 furman.
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Post by Tbone81 on Oct 15, 2017 18:21:09 GMT -6
Nothing much, they're basically just rack mounted surge protectors. Well, it depends on the unit. If it's the generic ones sold at GC and the like then it's MOV surge protectors and an easy way to turn your equipment off. Stay away from the cheap merit series just use a fused power strip. Yeah, I should clarify that I'm generalizing here. And I'm sure even with the cheap ones that some are better made than others.
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Post by mulmany on Oct 15, 2017 18:24:05 GMT -6
Well, it depends on the unit. If it's the generic ones sold at GC and the like then it's MOV surge protectors and an easy way to turn your equipment off. Stay away from the cheap merit series just use a fused power strip. Yeah, I should clarify that I'm generalizing here. And I'm sure even with the cheap ones that some are better made than others. I got a cheap one thrown in with a gear purchase. It hums like crazy, can hear it sitting 6ft away. I stopped using it in the studio.
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Post by Tbone81 on Oct 15, 2017 18:48:43 GMT -6
Yeah, I should clarify that I'm generalizing here. And I'm sure even with the cheap ones that some are better made than others. I got a cheap one thrown in with a gear purchase. It hums like crazy, can hear it sitting 6ft away. I stopped using it in the studio. Wow that is bad. I bought one by Monster for like $60 new and I was surprised by how good it is. No issues at all. Its worth looking into for anyone looking for decent cheapo. Then again Im sure ebay is filled with good deals too.
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Post by LesC on Oct 15, 2017 18:54:50 GMT -6
What dr bill said, also look at how your power cables are oriented on the back of your gear. As you're putting pieces in it helps if you can arrange to have most of the power cables on the same side. Buy some Velcro cable ties for everything. Good cable management will make your life a lot easier. Also, is recommend the Samson S patch. Has switched on the front face plate, and imho is slightly better build than the Behringer (I've owned both). Completely agree, including the Samson S patch. I always put the patch bay at the mid-point of the equipment connected to it, in order to minimize cable lengths.
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 14,934
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Post by ericn on Oct 15, 2017 20:07:49 GMT -6
1 think bigger than you think you need! 2 racks are very simple DIY, most affordable studio racks have zero provisions for cable management, unlike install racks. 3 can the Behringer bay real TT bays can be found used for cheap and will last a lifetime. 4 think heat management proper cooling keeps gear running longer 5 I won't even look at a rack that lacks rear rails, they make supporting large gear easier and less stressful aid in cable management & help organize outboard PSU's. 6 Heavy gear towards the bottom!
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Post by nashbass on Oct 15, 2017 20:39:33 GMT -6
I'm definitely not thinking of the $80-120 range for a Furman. I'm looking in the $600+ range. It doesn't make sense to run thousands of dollars' worth of gear thru an $80 power conditioner. As I mentioned earlier, an engineer friend of mine here in Nashville told me just the other day that ""The quality of the AC power is significant to the quality of the audio coming out of that gear."
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 14,934
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Post by ericn on Oct 15, 2017 20:53:00 GMT -6
I'm definitely not thinking of the $80-120 range for a Furman. I'm looking in the $600+ range. It doesn't make sense to run thousands of dollars' worth of gear thru an $80 power conditioner. As I mentioned earlier, an engineer friend of mine here in Nashville told me just the other day that ""The quality of the AC power is significant to the quality of the audio coming out of that gear." Here is the thing unless you know what's wrong with your power it's really just throwing money at a possible solution.
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Post by drbill on Oct 15, 2017 22:48:22 GMT -6
Agreed with Eric. Throwing money at a power conditioner is not really going to make your gear sound better. You'd be better off hiring an electrician and get the power into your studio dialed in. Everything makes a difference, but some things make less of a difference. I don't spend much on rack power conditioners. Maybe $100 but I use em as ""power strips". I did spend a $#@! load of money making sure the power coming INTO the studio was kick ass though....
Something as simple as changing out 60 year old receptacles and putting in hospital grade ones, and/or making sure the romex in the wall is 12Ga or even 10Ga twisted can make much more of a difference than the differences between an $80 distro and $600 distro.
Everyone should pay attention to the AC coming into their studio. it's the lifeblood.
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Post by drbill on Oct 15, 2017 22:52:30 GMT -6
PS - the only "plug in power box" solution I've seen that made any difference beyond what's in the walls and lining the outlets is the Equitec balanced power boxes. They can pull off noise miracles. Sometimes. It's been spotty in my experience. From unbelievable to exceptional to marginally better. Why? Because of what's coming in the walls, and how the grounding of the studio is implemented.
And they don't really make things "sound better" per se, they drop the noise floor down in poorly implemented studio's or studio's with ridiculously bad AC, thereby making the gear SEEM like it sounds better.
If the wiring coming into your studio from the power pole is crappy, that's where you start. With a call to your power company. If you have brownouts, then one of the expensive Furman boxes that take 80-140v and output 117v will be helpful. Beyond that, find out what the problem is, or if there even IS a problem before throwing money at stuff.
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Post by drbill on Oct 15, 2017 22:59:14 GMT -6
""The quality of the AC power is significant to the quality of the audio coming out of that gear." Agreed. But what he may not have told you is that gear that is designed well takes into account a wide range of power delivery from crappy to excellent - and delivers quality voltage to it's components. Throwing $600 at a "19" rack solution" is in all honestly probably not going to get you any further down the road than an $80 box. The exception being if you are in brownout situations, and that is easily determined by one of the distro boxes that have LED voltage imdicators on the front. They will tell you if you have that specific problem. Beyond that, the next step is balanced power, but even then, it's super expensive, quite heavy and you very well may not need it. One should not assume their power is bad or poor just because someone said quality AC = quality audio.
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Post by NoFilterChuck on Oct 15, 2017 23:43:56 GMT -6
drbill why not build one of those big filter boxes that has giant capacitors in it to smooth out the AC from the wall? I'm not referring to a UPS, btw.
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Post by swurveman on Oct 16, 2017 6:44:56 GMT -6
The reason I asked about the patchbay is that if a patchbay has the switches on the top of the bay, you're gonna need a space (or two) on the top to get to those switches. I also think patchbays should be as close to the mix position as possible, as you're gonna want to hear what it sounds like when you patch gear. You didn't talk about adda, but if you're gonna patch your mic pre outs to the compressor and back into the a/d in you want your converters close enough for the connectors to reach the bay. I have my Furman's at the bottom so that the power cords can fall down and plug in. You just want to make sure all the power cords can reach the Furman. Switches? What for? None of my bays have switches, not the ones in the console or the ones in the rack. Am I missing something? The Grounding/Normalling switches.
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