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Post by johneppstein on Oct 17, 2017 13:24:15 GMT -6
My "quick" comment was based on the perception of buyers that the MKI was "future proof". If you bought a "future proof" MKI in 2014 it was quick. 5 years is pretty quick for the future to come, but at least Apogee buyers learned what the word future means in Apogees terms. I do understand that Apple and Microsoft are the elephant in the room for the manufacturers. I do remember when Avid went to AAX. Waves did the transition quickly. UAD not so much. I've had Waves plugins since 1996 and the first one's I bought still work on my Windows based system. My RME drivers are 7 years old and both the hardware drivers and software updates have worked with Windows upgrades. Myabe I've been lucky. maybe the "new windows" will make them obsolete. I hope not. We'll see. I do wonder how many advances there really are in the sound quality of software plugins. I see the advantage of tha Apollo and having the ability to put plugins on channels while tracking, but does a UAD LA2A sound better than it did 7 years ago? I also wonder about the advances of , for example, Thunderbolt's new PCIE achitecture vs the PCIE architecture I use for my RME AES cards. I dunno - maybe it's my windoze-centrism, but my perception is that MS doesn't do even close to as many arbitrary "upgrades" as Apple and that the ones they do are usually (but not always) less likely to not be backwards compatible. From where I sit Apple appears to do frequent changes just for the sake of change and deliberately introduces incompatibilities for no real reason than to "churn the market" to sell more product. Makes me wonder why anyone still uses them, given that there's really no core hardware difference anymore, except where Apple intentionally introduces an incompatibility.
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Post by johneppstein on Oct 17, 2017 13:28:21 GMT -6
I think they're referring to how you won't need to upgrade after you get it, because it's as good as it gets. Sure - at the moment the statement was issued. A couple weeks later, who knows? I think any company making computer related hardware who claims their stuff is "future proof" is a liar.
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Post by NoFilterChuck on Oct 17, 2017 18:33:59 GMT -6
No one forced you to upgrade your OS tho. Also, the Symphony has been out for 6 years, and a lot of people think that even tho UA, RME, Motu, Focusrite, etc released new interfaces, the 6-year-old Symphony's still sound better. So, yeah, I'd say that Apogee interface has stood the test of time. Everyone is starting to sound like they're drinking too much haterade in this thread. Get over it. You're not gonna like what decisions companies make regarding their products and development cycle.
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Post by ChaseUTB on Oct 17, 2017 19:48:51 GMT -6
I don’t think anyone is drinking haterade.. In fact it seems most are sharing their personal experiences with said companies and their investments... No company is perfect but they should strive to be 💯
Apogee could have re engineered the chassis and done a way better trade in program. UAD offered trade ins from SF to BF thru certain dealers as well.
Symph mk2 16i/o and BF Apollo 16 is quite a huge leap in price, and you are paying for chassis and fancy touch screen. Also when Ragan and Kcat got their mk2 I’m sure there was a huge price difference.. the 16x16 Apogee mk2 is $5600... The BF mk2 is $3000 plus a Quad dsp.
So if a converter costs almost double I would expect it to sound better 🤠
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Post by ragan on Oct 17, 2017 22:06:42 GMT -6
I don’t think anyone is drinking haterade.. In fact it seems most are sharing their personal experiences with said companies and their investments... No company is perfect but they should strive to be 💯 Apogee could have re engineered the chassis and done a way better trade in program. UAD offered trade ins from SF to BF thru certain dealers as well. Symph mk2 16i/o and BF Apollo 16 is quite a huge leap in price, and you are paying for chassis and fancy touch screen. Also when Ragan and Kcat got their mk2 I’m sure there was a huge price difference.. the 16x16 Apogee mk2 is $5600... The BF mk2 is $3000 plus a Quad dsp. So if a converter costs almost double I would expect it to sound better 🤠 Indeed. And it does just not anywhere near by the amount the price difference would suggest. So the usual thing for good audio gear and diminishing returns and all that.
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Post by NoFilterChuck on Oct 17, 2017 22:41:24 GMT -6
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Post by ragan on Oct 17, 2017 22:52:24 GMT -6
For what it's worth, which isn't really much, I bought my MKII 8x8 used for $2700. Hardly touched. I sold my BF Apollo and D Box and made about that same amount. Gave up a lot of functionality of course.
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Post by kcatthedog on Oct 18, 2017 3:08:43 GMT -6
While re-engineering a chassis is possible, I wonder about how expensive it would be vs a new design as Apogee wanted to change the airflow and fan too ?
I bought used too a 3 month old unregistered unit, also did very well selling my young bf: out of pocket only a few $100, so was a very easy decision.
I like Ragan had had a dbox in the past and neither the sf or bf touch its da and headphone 🎧 and DA, a few hundred for the Smkii, also got me it's really great DA and headphones 🎧 a used dbox was like 2-3x the price difference.
It's a challenge finding a good deal on used other apogee cards but it will happen one day, but I am still thinking about a radar system but would want its current version and may do something before dropping big coin a a new 💻!
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Post by ChaseUTB on Oct 18, 2017 5:03:15 GMT -6
right here www.apogeedigital.com/products/symphony-io/8x8-configuration16×16 Analog I/O + 16×16 AES/Optical I/O Symphony I/O Mk II 8×8: $3295 Expansion Module: 8×8 Analog I/O + 8×8 AES/Optical I/O: $2195 System Price: $5490 Apologies, I was $100 off... Also, the configuration you listed is only 16 I/O simultaneously ( analog and digital ) plus your configuration is lacking AES/EBU and Madi.. ( madi is not used but in development for Apollo ) The BF Apollo 18 x 20 simultaneous I/o, so the Apollo has monitor outs plus the 16 I/o.. I mean Ragan and Kcat both bought Symph mk2 used right... BF Apollo 16 Demo with lots of good plus for $2700 www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/Apollo16Bkd?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIzYa18YP61gIVFweGCh26oQbsEAQYASABEgLqgPD_BwEYour chosen configuration with less features is $4300, so $1600 more than the BF above or with almost similar I/O but more apples to apples it’s $2500, which is what I listed above direct from Apogee.. ( retail...) Seems like you are the only one enjoying the haterade. Stay thirsty my friend... What is Guitar center?
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Post by indiehouse on Oct 18, 2017 5:19:24 GMT -6
That's not a 16x16. That's more like a 24x24.
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Post by kcatthedog on Oct 18, 2017 5:23:22 GMT -6
Those are new mkii prices, used mki are a fair bit lower: good to shop around.
Its convenient that the mkii chassis can play nice with mki modules.
16x16 mkii at proaudio star is like $4200 usd ?
I'm drinking coffee: hope that's ok too ?
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Post by ChaseUTB on Oct 18, 2017 5:25:36 GMT -6
That's not a 16x16. That's more like a 24x24. I disagree, and if I am wrong oh well, it won’t be the first or last! That is the way they word it 8x8 AD & DA plus chassis is $3200 Add another 8x8 AD +DA + 8 AES/EBU and it comes with the AES/EBU that’s for 16 Ad and 16 DA plus 8 in And 8 out AES EBU
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Post by indiehouse on Oct 18, 2017 6:05:38 GMT -6
That's not a 16x16. That's more like a 24x24. I disagree, and if I am wrong oh well, it won’t be the first or last! That is the way they word it 8x8 AD & DA plus chassis is $3200 Add another 8x8 AD +DA + 8 AES/EBU and it comes with the AES/EBU that’s for 16 Ad and 16 DA plus 8 in And 8 out AES EBU Yes, you are wrong. #math
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2017 8:01:36 GMT -6
I don't know if this has been discussed elsewhere but has anybody heard the difference between the mk1 & 2 ?
Surely at this level of Apogee conversion it's 'splitting hairs'.
Is the Mk2 more of a heat / design change or is there more going on 'under the hood' ?
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Post by Martin John Butler on Oct 18, 2017 8:23:33 GMT -6
Good question phatbay.
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Post by NoFilterChuck on Oct 18, 2017 8:25:29 GMT -6
They have info on their site. They use 2 channels on the AD chips per physical input. Some kind of splitter/joiner thing. ChaseUTB each card in the symphony has max 16 channels going in and 16 going out. It might be 8 analog/8 digital going in, or 16 analog/0 digital. Same for output. The card I linked to is 16 analog in/16 analog out/0 digital in/0 digital out. The card you linked to was 8 analog in/out 8 digital in/out. Each chassis can house 2 cards for 32in/32out, be it 16 analog in/out 16 digital in/out or 24 analog io/8 digital io. If you have no need for digital IO and need more than 8 channels of analog IO, then you buy the Symphony that comes with the 16x16 analog IO card for $4200. That card takes up only one slot in the chassis, so if you need to expand further later, you can add another 16x16analog card or an 8x8analog+8x8digital card. You linked to a configuration that used up both slots to achieve 16 analog in/16 analog out. It also had another 16 of digital.
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
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Post by ericn on Oct 18, 2017 9:19:47 GMT -6
I can't think of an interface manufacturer who hasn't screwed up on Update/ new version/ new interface protocol! No matter the price or when you invest you have to consider anything that plugs into a computer is going to be obsolete tomorrow!
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Post by ragan on Oct 18, 2017 9:30:33 GMT -6
I can't think of an interface manufacturer who hasn't screwed up on Update/ new version/ new interface protocol! No matter the price or when you invest you have to consider anything that plugs into a computer is going to be obsolete tomorrow! You're right, of course. The issue here is Apogeee shouldn't have been going around telling everyone that This Particular Device That Plugs Into A Computer Is The One That Isnt Going To Be Obsolete Tomorrow.
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Post by ChaseUTB on Oct 18, 2017 9:57:43 GMT -6
I disagree, and if I am wrong oh well, it won’t be the first or last! That is the way they word it 8x8 AD & DA plus chassis is $3200 Add another 8x8 AD +DA + 8 AES/EBU and it comes with the AES/EBU that’s for 16 Ad and 16 DA plus 8 in And 8 out AES EBU Yes, you are wrong. #math Chuck confirmed what I said, I had the wrong configuration for the cheapest way to get 16 i/o. I tried to make the symphony as equal or better AD DA & Dig I/O. and features. What I listed for total I/O for the configuration is correct..
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Post by ChaseUTB on Oct 18, 2017 10:00:01 GMT -6
They have info on their site. They use 2 channels on the AD chips per physical input. Some kind of splitter/joiner thing. ChaseUTB each card in the symphony has max 16 channels going in and 16 going out. It might be 8 analog/8 digital going in, or 16 analog/0 digital. Same for output. The card I linked to is 16 analog in/16 analog out/0 digital in/0 digital out. The card you linked to was 8 analog in/out 8 digital in/out. Each chassis can house 2 cards for 32in/32out, be it 16 analog in/out 16 digital in/out or 24 analog io/8 digital io. If you have no need for digital IO and need more than 8 channels of analog IO, then you buy the Symphony that comes with the 16x16 analog IO card for $4200. That card takes up only one slot in the chassis, so if you need to expand further later, you can add another 16x16analog card or an 8x8analog+8x8digital card. You linked to a configuration that used up both slots to achieve 16 analog in/16 analog out. It also had another 16 of digital. Yeah I see where I went backwards and that’s me not having much experience with this mk2 card thing. I also wanted to make sure each unit had at least the same protocols and I/o to try and make it as close as poss. If I had just put a ad da 16 card no Digital I/o I figured some one would say it’s not apples to apples. Anyway thanks for correcting me and at least we agree on the rest tho!
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Post by Johnkenn on Oct 20, 2017 16:36:33 GMT -6
I just had a lead here in town (sounds suspicious) for a mkI 8x8 for $900. Allllmost pulled the trigger...but just couldn’t do it.
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Post by BenjaminAshlin on Oct 20, 2017 16:54:06 GMT -6
I just had a lead here in town (sounds suspicious) for a mkI 8x8 for $900. Allllmost pulled the trigger...but just couldn’t do it. What are you currently using? I remember you talking about BF, Dangerous and the Clarett in the passed. I am using a BF but a secondhand Symphony or new Antelope Discrete8 look interesting.
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Post by Johnkenn on Oct 20, 2017 17:05:09 GMT -6
Using the Svartbox for AD and DA. Apollo is a really, really expensive dongle. Probably need to just sell it and buy a cheaper interface. Or sell both and go Symphony. I would do that for sure if the 2x6 had the newest upgrades, but it doesn’t.
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Post by ragan on Oct 20, 2017 17:17:51 GMT -6
I just had a lead here in town (sounds suspicious) for a mkI 8x8 for $900. Allllmost pulled the trigger...but just couldn’t do it. Damn...
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Post by Johnkenn on Oct 20, 2017 17:56:22 GMT -6
So let’s say it’s a tiny bit better than the Svartbox - although I think the SB sounds better than the Apollo BF. You know the differences in the DA between the Dbox and the SmkII (I thought the SB was on par with the dbox if not a little more revealing in the top end)...it’s just hard for me to justify anything for that slight a bit of difference - much less $900...my lust says yes, but my mind says no. I could justify selling the Apollo and something else to pay for a 2x6 Symphony mkII - that would be a no-brainer...but’s it’s the old tech.
There’s this part of me that thinks, “you’ve done this before. You know he difference isn't as big as you’re making it to be in your mind...” Then there’s a part of me that is convinced that if I just had that peice, theeeen I would be satiated. But then I think, wait. What if I get the Symphony without hearing the new Dangerous or Crane Song...
How will I ever make music again??
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