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Post by Guitar on Oct 8, 2017 15:36:40 GMT -6
I was just looking at the RED 8Pre.
It seems to be the most ideal perfect interface I could use but $3,500 is pretty steep. I can't believe the I/O count on the back panel.
Just wondering if anyone has actually heard or used one of these.
Right now I'm using Apollos and Clarett/Presonus in combination. Guess I'm stuck in the middle with you.
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Post by jamesa on Oct 8, 2017 16:33:25 GMT -6
I was just looking at the RED 8Pre. It seems to be the most ideal perfect interface I could use but $3,500 is pretty steep. I can't believe the I/O count on the back panel. Just wondering if anyone has actually heard or used one of these. Right now I'm using Apollos and Clarett/Presonus in combination. Guess I'm stuck in the middle with you. I don’t have it, but I’m curious how it’s better than what you already have. Sound quality? Workflow?
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Post by Guitar on Oct 8, 2017 16:46:29 GMT -6
I was just looking at the RED 8Pre. It seems to be the most ideal perfect interface I could use but $3,500 is pretty steep. I can't believe the I/O count on the back panel. Just wondering if anyone has actually heard or used one of these. Right now I'm using Apollos and Clarett/Presonus in combination. Guess I'm stuck in the middle with you. I don’t have it, but I’m curious how it’s better than what you already have. Sound quality? Workflow? I have "heared" that these "sound as good as the Apogee Symphonies" from people that have them. Specs are really good, design details seem very high end. The fact that it gets so much analog I/O in one rack space, without needing extra ADAT or SPDIF expansion, is incredible to me. Although, of course, those features are available AS WELL! Driver wise, it would be pretty much the same story as my Clarett. I would have to move my UAD stuff to Satellites rather than Apollos because I'd be selling the Apollos. I never really have used too much of the real time plugin tracking with Apollo. Just don't use it, don't know why. Still do love the UAD plugins, however, and the question of Unison preamps versus the RED preamps would be a question to ask about quality and comparison. I guess I just like my Clarett so much that I fantasize about moving up to the Focusrite "High End" of things, since their low and middle ends are already so good to me. It is doubtful that this would make much impact on my workflow rather than simplifying routing and switching. Might save me from lusting after Lyxn Hilos and things like that if the main DAC is "that good." It just looks, to me, like this is the current best all-in-one thunderbolt interface out there, for my tastes and needs. I guess it's not much different from me looking at sports cars and nice houses, really. If anyone has one and loves it, that would just fuel my fantasy even more. I am perfectly happy using what I have now, I just haven't seen a lot of chatter about these. Even since CLA has adopted them. Seems a little under the radar at the moment.
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Post by ChaseUTB on Oct 9, 2017 12:43:11 GMT -6
You sure CLA is using them and that wasn’t a product placement vid he got paid for?
I see UAD promote the Apollo with Vance Powell saying he uses them but who is to say he actually uses them day in and day out.. Has anyone hired him before or worked out of his studio with him? Also I don’t believe converters make as big of difference as everyone agonizes.. pick a unit that suits you best and get to work 🤠
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Post by jamesa on Oct 9, 2017 15:29:46 GMT -6
It is a very feature-rich interface! I nearly purchased one last week but went with an Apollo 8P instead. The advantage of the Red 8Pre was having 8 preamps PLUS 8 line inputs in a single unit. With the 8P, I'm restricted to 8 pre/line combo jacks, so if I want 16 channels I either have to use ADAT or purchase an additional Apollo unit.
My experience with Focusrite's A/D has been pretty good too, having owned an ISA 428 MKII with the ADC card in it. While the preamps on it were ok, the real strength of the unit was in the ADC. It provided 4 extra channels of A/D conversion so I could connect my external preamps into it and then run to my interface via ADAT. I greatly preferred the sound of this over the line-ins on my MOTU 1248. Being so much newer, I would expect the A/D on the Red 8Pre to be even better than the ADC on the 428.
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Post by jeromemason on Oct 9, 2017 21:41:27 GMT -6
These look extremely impressive.
The RED mic pre's have always sounded really good. I'm still trying to figure out if these have the Lundahl trannies or if they have chosen to emulate that digitally, from my reading it sounds as if they've emulated the Lundahls on the inputs of the mic pre's. If that's the case, it would be pretty sad, Lundahls to me on the inputs of any mic pre/EQ/Comp are the best out there. Sowters on the output is my other fav.
I've love to have one of these for a week or two and see how it would sound as basically a drop in replacement of my Motu 16a, then see if my mixes were to improve. I do like they've put in a discrete DAC for the monitoring and chosen to keep the path analog, I'm sure it sounds fantastic. I need to read a bit more on these to see what chips they're using and such. The RED 4 Pre looks like the only difference is just the number of mic inputs.
The value here for me would be that I could offload my 16a and my Antelope Satori because this is an all in one box. I think it seems like a pretty good value if they're using the Sabre and Lundahls on the inputs.
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Post by ChaseUTB on Oct 9, 2017 22:55:10 GMT -6
This does not have transformer coupled preamps, 8 Of Them no less ... 8 transformer coupled preamps would be more than $3500... Aurora Audio GTP8 is $5k...
From Focusrite Red 8 Pre blurbs: “ They also include our unique ‘Air’ effect, recreating the sound of the transformer-based mic preamps in the ISA and original Red ranges. When ‘Air’ is enabled, the microphone impedance is lowered and the sound is given a subtle mid-high boost – all in the analogue domain. “
The Red Evolution mic pres in the Red Range include the ‘Air’ function. ‘Air’ is a purely analogue effect that emulates the sound of the transformer-based mic preamps of the ISA range, the foundations of Focusrite’s “Heritage Sound”.
“'Air' recreates the sound-shaping effect of the classic ISA transformer, by using an authentic analogue model of the original transformer-based preamp design. Engaging 'Air' reconfigures the three-stage preamp signal chain to switch in the correct transformer-style input impedance, followed by a linear gain stage, and finally inserting a passive frequency-shaping stage to recreate the tight low end and elevated high-end response – thus creating the effect described by our customers as the classic 'Air' sound of the heritage Focusrite mic pre.“
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Post by ChaseUTB on Oct 9, 2017 22:56:59 GMT -6
I love the way they look. The front panel and color scheme is excellent imo.
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Post by schmalzy on Oct 10, 2017 8:42:12 GMT -6
The Red 16Line is really what I've been trying to find for a long time: 16 analog line ins and line outs - an additional 2 outs for monitoring - plus 16 of ins and outs on ADAT (at 48kHz - I assume you could do 8 in/out at 96kHz). Apparently you can add 32 more ins and outs via Dante if you've got an interface that'll do it (like another Red 16Line, for example).
This interface is basically saying "use me with a console."
What it whispers to me, though, is "you can track a whole band at 96kHz without a big mess of boxes and drivers all hoping to speak to each other happily." I dig that.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Oct 10, 2017 9:26:41 GMT -6
This does not have transformer coupled preamps, 8 Of Them no less ... 8 transformer coupled preamps would be more than $3500... Aurora Audio GTP8 is $5k... Only $2500 brah... www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/ISA828
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Post by jeromemason on Oct 10, 2017 21:36:26 GMT -6
This does not have transformer coupled preamps, 8 Of Them no less ... 8 transformer coupled preamps would be more than $3500... Aurora Audio GTP8 is $5k... From Focusrite Red 8 Pre blurbs: “ They also include our unique ‘Air’ effect, recreating the sound of the transformer-based mic preamps in the ISA and original Red ranges. When ‘Air’ is enabled, the microphone impedance is lowered and the sound is given a subtle mid-high boost – all in the analogue domain. “ The Red Evolution mic pres in the Red Range include the ‘Air’ function. ‘Air’ is a purely analogue effect that emulates the sound of the transformer-based mic preamps of the ISA range, the foundations of Focusrite’s “Heritage Sound”. “'Air' recreates the sound-shaping effect of the classic ISA transformer, by using an authentic analogue model of the original transformer-based preamp design. Engaging 'Air' reconfigures the three-stage preamp signal chain to switch in the correct transformer-style input impedance, followed by a linear gain stage, and finally inserting a passive frequency-shaping stage to recreate the tight low end and elevated high-end response – thus creating the effect described by our customers as the classic 'Air' sound of the heritage Focusrite mic pre.“ The transformer option wouldn't had increased the price by that much...... Focusrite buys a ton of trannies from Lundahl as it already is, incorporating that into this box would had been pretty easy and I'd imagine most folks wouldn't mind the extra couple hundred. They've emulated it, which to me is just lousy way to cut a corner. Knowing that just makes it a no buy for me. Knowing what MOTU is accomplishing out there for a fraction of the price with ESS Sabre conversion...... MOTU is kicking ass right now. They just came out with the 828es which gives you a ton of functionality, pre's, Sabre conversion and ethernet expansion for $1k? Freaking amazing and respect the hell out of a company producing gear of that quality and keeping it insanely affordable.
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Post by Guitar on Oct 11, 2017 15:14:38 GMT -6
This does not have transformer coupled preamps, 8 Of Them no less ... 8 transformer coupled preamps would be more than $3500... Aurora Audio GTP8 is $5k... From Focusrite Red 8 Pre blurbs: “ They also include our unique ‘Air’ effect, recreating the sound of the transformer-based mic preamps in the ISA and original Red ranges. When ‘Air’ is enabled, the microphone impedance is lowered and the sound is given a subtle mid-high boost – all in the analogue domain. “ The Red Evolution mic pres in the Red Range include the ‘Air’ function. ‘Air’ is a purely analogue effect that emulates the sound of the transformer-based mic preamps of the ISA range, the foundations of Focusrite’s “Heritage Sound”. “'Air' recreates the sound-shaping effect of the classic ISA transformer, by using an authentic analogue model of the original transformer-based preamp design. Engaging 'Air' reconfigures the three-stage preamp signal chain to switch in the correct transformer-style input impedance, followed by a linear gain stage, and finally inserting a passive frequency-shaping stage to recreate the tight low end and elevated high-end response – thus creating the effect described by our customers as the classic 'Air' sound of the heritage Focusrite mic pre.“ The transformer option wouldn't had increased the price by that much...... Focusrite buys a ton of trannies from Lundahl as it already is, incorporating that into this box would had been pretty easy and I'd imagine most folks wouldn't mind the extra couple hundred. They've emulated it, which to me is just lousy way to cut a corner. Knowing that just makes it a no buy for me. Knowing what MOTU is accomplishing out there for a fraction of the price with ESS Sabre conversion...... MOTU is kicking ass right now. They just came out with the 828es which gives you a ton of functionality, pre's, Sabre conversion and ethernet expansion for $1k? Freaking amazing and respect the hell out of a company producing gear of that quality and keeping it insanely affordable. I like the idea, but I don't think that's quite right. Fitting 8 Lundahl transformers (from a preamp ISA design that is 2 RU) into a 1 RU unit that already has SO MUCH going on otherwise, just does not seem feasible, or frankly, physically possible to me. Not to mention it would put the price into the $4,000-5,000+ range and you'd end up with a 3U+ box or something like that. I think it's smarter for them to sell separates, just like they are doing now. And to be fair, I don't think MOTU really has much going on with input transformers in their interfaces, either. Those MOTU do look really good though. The new Presonus Quantum would be a direct competitor at the exact same price point. Another one I'd like to try. And that one's got DAW integration features, if you can be willing to switch to Studio One.
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Post by ChaseUTB on Oct 11, 2017 19:33:21 GMT -6
jcoutu1If that were the original ISA then yeah but that’s not and the gtp8 is definitely amazing sounding... AMAZING ( sounds better than The gtq2 to me )
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Post by jeromemason on Oct 11, 2017 20:01:42 GMT -6
Not sure why folks seem to think that 8 transformers would cost an extra $2k?
The design is simpler, there's more than enough room because all of that DSP and unbalancing real estate wouldn't be taken up.
Lundahl's are expensive buying singles from their site, yes, but a company like Focusrite that buys the amounts they buy those prices go down quite a bit. My reference to Motu isn't about transformers being on the preamps, of course they're not, but they don't sound bad in the design they're in. Focusrite has chosen to emulate the transformer and that just seems odd to me, especially when they're putting this into the RED category which is supposed to be the upper echelon of their products. It would had been really simple to include the transformers and only increase the price by a couple hundred bucks. When you look at a company like Motu, they're killing it right now. They're producing high end quality and selling it for a extremely fair price. I imagine they're making a lot of money doing it too because they continue making new products. Companies that are failing don't keep adding to their menu, they take away. So that proves Focusrite has plenty of room in the cost per unit to of been able to add the transformers and keep to the quality a lot of us expected. An emulated transformer isn't going to sound anything like the real deal, especially with Lundahl's, those are truly special transformers on the inputs.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Oct 11, 2017 21:17:24 GMT -6
Jerome I get what your saying, but isn't watering down the original ISA & RED range Focusrite's entire Buisness model of the last 30 years? That said the RED digital range is probably the best products they have designed in years!
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Post by jeromemason on Oct 11, 2017 21:37:39 GMT -6
Yep, they're killing themselves slowly but surely by trying to cut corners and putting too much faith in the DSP modeling in the hardware.
The original RED 3 had trannies on the front end, they did away with that and it's electronically unbalanced. A member thats on here bought both versions, the older and the newer. Focusrite's chief designer swore that the new transformerless version was just as good, if not better than the original. Well, it took about 3 seconds of listening to the shootout to immediately hit the button on the transformer version, it's incredibly important and is what gives that compressor a lot of it's tone.
The same thing with the mic pre's, that Lundahl is what made the RED pre sound really great. Trying to model it? WTH are these companies doing?? They're killing the legacy of the tone they're famous for.
I like the RED net system, but Motu has already caught up to them at a fraction of the price, and using the ESS Sabre chipset which is proven a winner in both the Motu units and the Apogee Symphony.
I'm still amazed they pulled the trannies out of the RED 3 and kept the outside appearance exactly the same, no change.... it's misleading!
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Oct 11, 2017 22:04:09 GMT -6
Yep, they're killing themselves slowly but surely by trying to cut corners and putting too much faith in the DSP modeling in the hardware. The original RED 3 had trannies on the front end, they did away with that and it's electronically unbalanced. A member thats on here bought both versions, the older and the newer. Focusrite's chief designer swore that the new transformerless version was just as good, if not better than the original. Well, it took about 3 seconds of listening to the shootout to immediately hit the button on the transformer version, it's incredibly important and is what gives that compressor a lot of it's tone. The same thing with the mic pre's, that Lundahl is what made the RED pre sound really great. Trying to model it? WTH are these companies doing?? They're killing the legacy of the tone they're famous for. I like the RED net system, but Motu has already caught up to them at a fraction of the price, and using the ESS Sabre chipset which is proven a winner in both the Motu units and the Apogee Symphony. I'm still amazed they pulled the trannies out of the RED 3 and kept the outside appearance exactly the same, no change.... it's misleading! I remember putting a made in China isa430MKII against a UK Made ISA430 something g was lost in translation, it was like somebody put a scrim over everything! Understand they need to make $ , but man come on !
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Post by Johnkenn on Oct 12, 2017 8:53:36 GMT -6
You sure CLA is using them and that wasn’t a product placement vid he got paid for? I see UAD promote the Apollo with Vance Powell saying he uses them but who is to say he actually uses them day in and day out.. Has anyone hired him before or worked out of his studio with him? Also I don’t believe converters make as big of difference as everyone agonizes.. pick a unit that suits you best and get to work 🤠 I can nip that one in the bud. Although I do think he uses the plugs.
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Post by ChaseUTB on Oct 12, 2017 13:34:23 GMT -6
You sure CLA is using them and that wasn’t a product placement vid he got paid for? I see UAD promote the Apollo with Vance Powell saying he uses them but who is to say he actually uses them day in and day out.. Has anyone hired him before or worked out of his studio with him? Also I don’t believe converters make as big of difference as everyone agonizes.. pick a unit that suits you best and get to work 🤠 I can nip that one in the bud. Although I do think he uses the plugs. Yeah have seen tape, Burl and other converters in his own vids before I think lynx maybe ..
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