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Post by Tbone81 on Sept 28, 2017 10:11:22 GMT -6
None of the plugs nor the devices or techniques modeled for the plugs, really 'double.' If you want it thick and adjustable like a double, sing it twice. Everything else sounds like one performance with some sauce on it. For widening, the Eventide H910 'flickering digit" stereo micro detune trick from the 80's is wonderfully done by Soundtoy's Little Microshift. I still use this regularly. It works and it sounds great. What Don said, but I'll add if you want the sound of the H3000, and make no mistake the 3000 is one of the vocal sounds of the late 80's and early 90's you need a real H3000 it's as much about the Converters and analog section as the software. Somebody once told me you could hear every preset in a H3000 if listened to the radio long enough! Hey Eric, so you got me thinking about hardware now. I'm wondering what an Eventide H9 guitar pedal would sound like. It's been on my radar for a long time now. I'm thinking it could be cool, even its not the exact H3000/H910 algorithms (or converters for that matter). Also I could use it for my guitar/synth rigs. It's way more money than I spend right now (I'm looking at spending a good 1K on software upgrades/updates right now), but in the future maybe thats the way to go. Any thoughts? I'm not super familiar with the H3000 or the H910. When I first started out they were in every studio, so I used them a handful of times. But my career in music has been a winding path and its been a long time since I've even seen H3000
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2017 12:11:05 GMT -6
I'v had an H9 Max for a couple of years now, it's amazing, and I use the MicroShift all the time, but mainly as a guitar chorus for Cocteau Twins type clean stuff, not tried it on vocals, or an original Eventide to compare it to. It's lived in the FX loop of my guitar tube amp for over a year now...
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Post by Martin John Butler on Sept 28, 2017 12:31:21 GMT -6
nofilterchuck uses the H9 as his hardware reverb for his tracks, and it sounds amazing. I wish it was less expensive. Once you're at $600 for a pedal, I'd rather look at a Lexicon pcm 70 or 300.
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Post by viciousbliss on Sept 28, 2017 15:55:52 GMT -6
Forgot, Waves Reel ADT can be great in the right sessions.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Sept 28, 2017 20:56:54 GMT -6
Eric, I've now got the software Eventide H3000. What presets could you point me to for vocal treatment? I was absent the big recording studios in the '90's, and resisted the humungous guitar rack systems of the day. My Back says you were one of the few, I don't remember and all my recall sheets & notes went the way of my 68 LP studio in Ike! But here's the thing my H3000 was the one I had during my days of touring with DB sound, it was handed down from the A rigs where big name live guys filled it with all their tweeks, I didn't realize what I had given up till after I had sold it! I begged the guy I sold it to, to let me copy all the programs but wouldn't let me near that thing.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Sept 28, 2017 20:59:19 GMT -6
What Don said, but I'll add if you want the sound of the H3000, and make no mistake the 3000 is one of the vocal sounds of the late 80's and early 90's you need a real H3000 it's as much about the Converters and analog section as the software. Somebody once told me you could hear every preset in a H3000 if listened to the radio long enough! Hey Eric, so you got me thinking about hardware now. I'm wondering what an Eventide H9 guitar pedal would sound like. It's been on my radar for a long time now. I'm thinking it could be cool, even its not the exact H3000/H910 algorithms (or converters for that matter). Also I could use it for my guitar/synth rigs. It's way more money than I spend right now (I'm looking at spending a good 1K on software upgrades/updates right now), but in the future maybe thats the way to go. Any thoughts? I'm not super familiar with the H3000 or the H910. When I first started out they were in every studio, so I used them a handful of times. But my career in music has been a winding path and its been a long time since I've even seen H3000 H9 Nails the digital but is just to clean in the analog, still sounds better than the plugs, but the plugs are just so easy to dive head first in! I would grab a H9 or a full blown 3k /3500!
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Post by NoFilterChuck on Sept 28, 2017 21:05:05 GMT -6
if you want to hear some of the H9 algos, send me a PM and some files to run thru it.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Sept 28, 2017 21:08:56 GMT -6
I'd love to hear some more tracks with it Chuck.
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Post by c0rtland on Sept 28, 2017 21:28:19 GMT -6
Forgot, Waves Reel ADT can be great in the right sessions. that plug either really works for me or really doesn't. Come to think about it, I have that experience with a lot of plugins. Just not as malleable I guess, for me anyway...
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Post by johneppstein on Sept 28, 2017 22:15:02 GMT -6
Here's a video of the fix doubler Just checking that vid out, and after testing the waves ADT numerous times I just can't get down with doubler plugs..... Everything has this tin / phsase vibe that just ruins it for me...reminds me too much of badly tuned vocals... Maybe it could work, or be covered up haha, if there are lots of stacked group harmonies? I use it parallel (as well as ADT) for classic 60s/70s type stuff. Think Freddie Mercury's vocal on "Tie Your Mother Down". The Fix nails that sound and it's a texture I use a lot. I also use the flanger parallel on stacked harmonies or any other texture where I want some width and movement. I could be wrong, but it's my impression that Queen used to do all their stacked vocals by singing it themselves. I saw a video about the making of Bohemian Rhapsody and apparently they stacked up some ridiculous amount of vocal tracks for some parts. Which brings me to this - if you don't like the sound of the plugins, why just sing the damn thing as many times as necessary?
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Sept 28, 2017 22:24:02 GMT -6
I use it parallel (as well as ADT) for classic 60s/70s type stuff. Think Freddie Mercury's vocal on "Tie Your Mother Down". The Fix nails that sound and it's a texture I use a lot. I also use the flanger parallel on stacked harmonies or any other texture where I want some width and movement. I could be wrong, but it's my impression that Queen used to do all their stacked vocals by singing it themselves. I saw a video about the making of Bohemian Rhapsody and apparently they stacked up some ridiculous amount of vocal tracks for some parts. Which brings me to this - if you don't like the sound of the plugins, why just sing the damn thing as many times as necessary? Yeah that's what I heard over the years.
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Post by spindrift on Sept 28, 2017 23:21:24 GMT -6
Eric, I've now got the software Eventide H3000. What presets could you point me to for vocal treatment? I was absent the big recording studios in the '90's, and resisted the humungous guitar rack systems of the day. My Back says you were one of the few, I don't remember and all my recall sheets & notes went the way of my 68 LP studio in Ike! But here's the thing my H3000 was the one I had during my days of touring with DB sound, it was handed down from the A rigs where big name live guys filled it with all their tweeks, I didn't realize what I had given up till after I had sold it! I begged the guy I sold it to, to let me copy all the programs but wouldn't let me near that thing. What a dick. Who would do that?
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Post by ragan on Sept 29, 2017 0:30:33 GMT -6
I use it parallel (as well as ADT) for classic 60s/70s type stuff. Think Freddie Mercury's vocal on "Tie Your Mother Down". The Fix nails that sound and it's a texture I use a lot. I also use the flanger parallel on stacked harmonies or any other texture where I want some width and movement. I could be wrong, but it's my impression that Queen used to do all their stacked vocals by singing it themselves. I saw a video about the making of Bohemian Rhapsody and apparently they stacked up some ridiculous amount of vocal tracks for some parts. Which brings me to this - if you don't like the sound of the plugins, why just sing the damn thing as many times as necessary? You're not wrong about Queen's BGVs, that's just not what we're talking about. Listen to the lead vocal in "Tie Your Mother Down" (or "Burnin' Sky" or "Life in the Fast Lane" or a million others). That's not multiple vocal takes, it's very short, modulated delay. As I said above, the intention may have originally been to find a way to fake 'multiple takes' kind of doubling, but that's not what they got and then people used it for what it was, namely, a pretty bitchin' texture that works well in a lot of cases.
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Post by johneppstein on Sept 29, 2017 0:36:34 GMT -6
I could be wrong, but it's my impression that Queen used to do all their stacked vocals by singing it themselves. I saw a video about the making of Bohemian Rhapsody and apparently they stacked up some ridiculous amount of vocal tracks for some parts. Which brings me to this - if you don't like the sound of the plugins, why just sing the damn thing as many times as necessary? You're not wrong about Queen's BGVs, that's just not what we're talking about. Listen to the lead vocal in "Tie Your Mother Down" (or "Burnin' Sky" or "Life in the Fast Lane" or a million others). That's not multiple vocal takes, it's very short, modulated delay. As I said above, the intention may have originally been to find a way to fake 'multiple takes' kind of doubling, but that's not what they got and then people used it for what it was, namely, a pretty bitchin' texture that works well in a lot of cases. Ah, gotcha! It's just not something that makes me think of double tracking, I guess!
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Post by viciousbliss on Sept 29, 2017 2:48:07 GMT -6
I was noticing lately how little eq cuts can really throw off these doubler plugins bigtime. My thinking is now to do as little eq as possible after putting them in a chain. Sometimes I guess you can eq them some if they don't sound right, but eq can also make them sound really unnatural or just plain weird. Even just the bx_console filters at their default settings can change it a lot.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Sept 29, 2017 8:03:14 GMT -6
My Back says you were one of the few, I don't remember and all my recall sheets & notes went the way of my 68 LP studio in Ike! But here's the thing my H3000 was the one I had during my days of touring with DB sound, it was handed down from the A rigs where big name live guys filled it with all their tweeks, I didn't realize what I had given up till after I had sold it! I begged the guy I sold it to, to let me copy all the programs but wouldn't let me near that thing. What a dick. Who would do that? I think he thought he had the holy grail, I do remember a couple of the user programs had " Vai" in the title so I think he thought he had Steve 's guitar box, it probably did do some Vai gigs at FOH or Wedges!
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Post by joseph on Sept 29, 2017 10:37:31 GMT -6
If you guys like a crusty sounding delay unit the Oto BIM is worth a look, and not too expensive. Doesn't do pitched thing though.
The H910 plugin really nails the Low pitched snare thing.
My two favorite general use delay plugins are that and Soundtoys PrimalTap. Although Excalibur has a really great cross pan setting.
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Post by Tbone81 on Oct 1, 2017 10:52:54 GMT -6
Update, so I got the Waves ADT because it was only $29. As mentioned here, its such a low price it does justify any headache I have to put up with in the future. It looks very interesting in the demos I saw. Really its a different doubling effect then I was originally going for, but I think there are some cool creative uses for it. I won't have a chance to try it out for a few weeks because these plugs are all going on a new machine.
Edit: The H9 is in my future somewhere too, but first I need to buy a kemper and a few other goodies.
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Post by c0rtland on Oct 1, 2017 23:03:14 GMT -6
My Back says you were one of the few, I don't remember and all my recall sheets & notes went the way of my 68 LP studio in Ike! But here's the thing my H3000 was the one I had during my days of touring with DB sound, it was handed down from the A rigs where big name live guys filled it with all their tweeks, I didn't realize what I had given up till after I had sold it! I begged the guy I sold it to, to let me copy all the programs but wouldn't let me near that thing. What a dick. Who would do that? A selfish, insecure, opportunistic, ungrateful, fear-driven human. More than a few out there.
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Post by Calvin on Oct 2, 2017 0:02:36 GMT -6
What a dick. Who would do that? I think he thought he had the holy grail, I do remember a couple of the user programs had " Vai" in the title so I think he thought he had Steve 's guitar box, it probably did do some Vai gigs at FOH or Wedges! I don't recall which exact models, but there were versions of the H3000 that came with a bunch of Vai-programmed presets. Preset #s up in the 700 range, if I recall correctly. Been a while since I parted with my H3500 (Vai presets were included, although I don't recall relying on any of them), and I'm STILL kicking myself. That's one piece of gear I never should have parted with.
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Oct 17, 2017 8:39:46 GMT -6
I gave ReVoice Pro an endorsement. It does a good job at doubling, phrase matching and tuning.
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Post by b1 on Oct 17, 2017 15:31:37 GMT -6
I've been using a Vocalist Live Pro (rack mount). It has a musiQ pitch corrector which I never use (for pitching vox to guitar or keys). I have one preset that I'm patching 5 vox tracks into the mixer, and pic and choose what I want from that, but the preset does a solo vox until you bear down on it and you get harmony or doubling at the chorus or whenever. It has a foot-switch function, but you can control it perfectly with your voice.... I never use the foot-switch... I've heard people rag on it, but they were probably using the pitch corrector (which I don't like either).
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