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Post by Tbone81 on Sept 27, 2017 12:28:03 GMT -6
So I bought a new computer and I'm doing a bunch of updates. Its finally time to get screwed by Waves by going through their WUP program. Trying to save myself some money by deciding which waves plugins I do without. I have their vocal sweet but only really use the doubling plugin. Any one have any recommendations of other doubling programs I should try? Its $60 for me to update that plugin. I'd rather spend that on a company that wont charge me for an update.
Antares Worth Looking at? Any others? Thanks.
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Post by ragan on Sept 27, 2017 12:44:03 GMT -6
Softube The Fix! It's my fav by a good bit.
It's more than $60 of course but just thought I'd mention it. I bought a second hand license for mine.
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Post by Tbone81 on Sept 27, 2017 12:53:15 GMT -6
Thanks I'll check that out
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Post by Bender on Sept 27, 2017 13:16:01 GMT -6
Here's a video of the fix doubler
Just checking that vid out, and after testing the waves ADT numerous times I just can't get down with doubler plugs..... Everything has this tin / phsase vibe that just ruins it for me...reminds me too much of badly tuned vocals... Maybe it could work, or be covered up haha, if there are lots of stacked group harmonies?
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Post by Tbone81 on Sept 27, 2017 13:22:47 GMT -6
That video was little heavy handed but it sounded good to me. It's generally not my favorite effect in the world but for pop productions I think doublers do help get "that top 40 sound". Too much and it sounds like a cheesy chorus pedal, but in right amounts I've found them to help.
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Post by ragan on Sept 27, 2017 13:23:58 GMT -6
Here's a video of the fix doubler Just checking that vid out, and after testing the waves ADT numerous times I just can't get down with doubler plugs..... Everything has this tin / phsase vibe that just ruins it for me...reminds me too much of badly tuned vocals... Maybe it could work, or be covered up haha, if there are lots of stacked group harmonies? I use it parallel (as well as ADT) for classic 60s/70s type stuff. Think Freddie Mercury's vocal on "Tie Your Mother Down". The Fix nails that sound and it's a texture I use a lot. I also use the flanger parallel on stacked harmonies or any other texture where I want some width and movement.
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Post by Johnkenn on Sept 27, 2017 19:37:07 GMT -6
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Post by viciousbliss on Sept 27, 2017 20:08:11 GMT -6
My favorites aside from Waves Doubler:
Antares Harmony Engine 4.1 Softube Fix H910 H3000 Microshift Echo Boy
I use all of them along with Doubler4, so it's a tough call. But if I was just going to get one, I'd get the Harmony Engine as it's the most versatile. Fix gets used a lot by me too. With the right workflow, you can make these two blend right into the vocal so it just sounds like the natural voice but wider and thicker.
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Post by Johnkenn on Sept 27, 2017 20:18:22 GMT -6
There's a killer preset on the UAD EMT250 "Hands Down" something or another...I always think of Billy Joel "Still Rock and Roll To Me" when I hear it. I've been trying to get someone to let me use it ever since the plug came out. Maybe I'll use it in my next tune...
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Post by ragan on Sept 27, 2017 20:39:36 GMT -6
There's a killer preset on the UAD EMT250 "Hands Down" something or another...I always think of Billy Joel "Still Rock and Roll To Me" when I hear it. I've been trying to get someone to let me use it ever since the plug came out. Maybe I'll use it in my next tune... "Hands Down Double". I used the crap out of that preset when I had UAD. I miss that EMT250 plug.
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Post by donr on Sept 27, 2017 21:22:25 GMT -6
None of the plugs nor the devices or techniques modeled for the plugs, really 'double.'
If you want it thick and adjustable like a double, sing it twice. Everything else sounds like one performance with some sauce on it.
For widening, the Eventide H910 'flickering digit" stereo micro detune trick from the 80's is wonderfully done by Soundtoy's Little Microshift. I still use this regularly. It works and it sounds great.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Sept 27, 2017 21:32:39 GMT -6
None of the plugs nor the devices or techniques modeled for the plugs, really 'double.' If you want it thick and adjustable like a double, sing it twice. Everything else sounds like one performance with some sauce on it. For widening, the Eventide H910 'flickering digit" stereo micro detune trick from the 80's is wonderfully done by Soundtoy's Little Microshift. I still use this regularly. It works and it sounds great. What Don said, but I'll add if you want the sound of the H3000, and make no mistake the 3000 is one of the vocal sounds of the late 80's and early 90's you need a real H3000 it's as much about the Converters and analog section as the software. Somebody once told me you could hear every preset in a H3000 if listened to the radio long enough!
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Post by donr on Sept 27, 2017 21:43:47 GMT -6
Eric, I've now got the software Eventide H3000. What presets could you point me to for vocal treatment? I was absent the big recording studios in the '90's, and resisted the humungous guitar rack systems of the day.
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Post by Tbone81 on Sept 27, 2017 21:59:02 GMT -6
None of the plugs nor the devices or techniques modeled for the plugs, really 'double.' If you want it thick and adjustable like a double, sing it twice. Everything else sounds like one performance with some sauce on it. One performance with some sauce on it is exactly what I'm looking for. . .as long as that sauce is really good. For aesthetic (and practical) reasons there are times when singing it twice doesn't work.
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Post by donr on Sept 27, 2017 22:10:40 GMT -6
None of the plugs nor the devices or techniques modeled for the plugs, really 'double.' If you want it thick and adjustable like a double, sing it twice. Everything else sounds like one performance with some sauce on it. One performance with some sauce on it is exactly what I'm looking for. . .as long as that sauce is really good. For aesthetic (and practical) reasons there are times when singing it twice doesn't work. I dig that, Tbone. As listener, I never cared for "doublers" in that context. Dunno about Abbey Road and Lennon or whoever they used it on, but just fudging a single vocal performance as two never sounds better to my ear than presenting the lead vocal with every AE vocal trick that doesn't try to disguise it as two. Now, ACTUAL doubling is wonderful, going in and out of style, but it's guaranteed to raise a smile.
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Post by ragan on Sept 27, 2017 23:58:25 GMT -6
Yeah "doubling" as an effect doesn't really sound anything like overdubbing another take. They're two different things and they're appropriate when you're going after two different vibes.
Yes, they were trying to emulate actual, "singing it twice" doubling when they came up with these effects, but that's not what they got. They got another thing that is a cool effect when you want that effect.
So I'm with Don, with the added caveat that, for me at least, I'm never going after the "singing it twice" sound with a doubler, I'm going after a short, modulated delay that sounds like that-one-sound-that-we-can-all-conjure-up-from-a-million-songs-that-just-happens-to-have-been-arrived-at-when-they-were-trying-to-emulate-"singing it twice"-but-which-doesn't-actually-sound-like-that.
You know, that sound.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2017 0:00:25 GMT -6
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Post by ragan on Sept 28, 2017 0:06:09 GMT -6
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Post by ragan on Sept 28, 2017 0:09:09 GMT -6
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Post by ragan on Sept 28, 2017 0:15:09 GMT -6
Was gonna post Eagles "Life in the Fast Lane" but apparently it ain't on YouTube.
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kcatthedog
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Post by kcatthedog on Sept 28, 2017 0:25:09 GMT -6
^^This^^ meaning donr's comment
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Post by jazznoise on Sept 28, 2017 3:08:24 GMT -6
Yeah the sort of aggressive ADT effects on things like Mr. Blue Sky or most Queen records are very different to "double tracking". Short modulated delays, obviously work well. I don't own anything that does *that* vocal sound sadly, even the ADT plugin is a bit meh for me.
I sometimes like to run modulation in Mid/Side, but almost nothing supports it natively. Shame as it can be a cool effect, not dissimilar to the panned harmonizer H3000 type effects but less static. I'd rarely run a harmonizer on anything except to help stereoize mono loops.
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Post by john on Sept 28, 2017 8:33:47 GMT -6
I know you didn't wanna go the waves route but I bought the Abbey Road Reel ADT for $29 before visiting RGO just now. Lowest price I've ever seen it at. Also got the plates last month for $29. At prices that low the prospect of having to pay for an update in the future doesn't seem so sad. Especially since they are killer plug ins.
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Post by Johnkenn on Sept 28, 2017 8:53:20 GMT -6
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Post by Tbone81 on Sept 28, 2017 10:06:00 GMT -6
I know you didn't wanna go the waves route but I bought the Abbey Road Reel ADT for $29 before visiting RGO just now. Lowest price I've ever seen it at. Also got the plates last month for $29. At prices that low the prospect of having to pay for an update in the future doesn't seem so sad. Especially since they are killer plug ins. Yeah that's a good point. The thing is, when the time comes I have to update all my waves plugins at the same time so it really adds up. No other company does this. So I'm trying to limit my waves plugs, which at this point is down to just 3. Now if I saw something they make that no one else does, and I needed it, then yeah, I'd maybe buy it. I'll check out the ADT, maybe its the ticket. Right now Antares Harmonizer and Softube Fix are at the top of the list.
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