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Post by swurveman on Sept 23, 2017 8:51:09 GMT -6
I own a Presounous Central Station with ADAM A7x and NS10 speakers. With this setup, I have trouble hearing reverb balances in my mixes. I had my mix room done by Jeff Hedback. So, though it's not a truly professional environment it's pretty good for the money. So, I'm wondeirng if a higher end monitor controller will solve hearing reverb balances better. I would love to hear better the layering of rooms, halls, chambers and plates combined in a mix.
If anybody has experience with one of the top end controllers-Cranesong/Dangerous/Grace etc- could you advise me if these would solve my reverb monitoring? I really don't understand why high end controllers would be better for seperating things like reverb in evaluating a mix. So, I'm intereted in hearing opinions and understanding these monitor controllers better.
Thanks to anybody who reponds!
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2017 9:44:00 GMT -6
I have a Crookwood system, it's pretty transparent, but so would I imagine all of the higher end monitor controllers to be. I'm not sure it would give you that much of an advantage for hearing reverb balances, over what you have now, compared to say, spending the same amount on improving your monitoring environment (speakers, amps and room treatment).
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Post by mulmany on Sept 23, 2017 10:03:39 GMT -6
Are you looking for an all in one DA plus controller? I have never used that controller but reports are that it is a bit cloudy.
I am now using a Svartbox and a passive monitor controller in my setup. There was a significant improvement in detail.
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Post by swurveman on Sept 23, 2017 10:19:01 GMT -6
Are you looking for an all in one DA plus controller? I have never used that controller but reports are that it is a bit cloudy. I am now using a Svartbox and a passive monitor controller in my setup. There was a significant improvement in detail. Which passive controller?
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Post by mulmany on Sept 23, 2017 10:37:29 GMT -6
Are you looking for an all in one DA plus controller? I have never used that controller but reports are that it is a bit cloudy. I am now using a Svartbox and a passive monitor controller in my setup. There was a significant improvement in detail. Which passive controller? New Old Sound McONE. It's ok, but the Svartbox made a bigger difference. With what's available now I would probably go with the active version of the McONE.
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Post by Tbone81 on Sept 23, 2017 10:41:43 GMT -6
I use a Coleman audio passive controller, it's great, I highly recommend it. No coloration that I can tell. I wouldn't buy a dangerous or any of the more expensive units unless I was using the added features (DA etc). But that's just me.
On another note. Have you tried mixing on headphones for reverb balances? My room is a little too dead and I was having the same problem. Got some better headphones and it really helped.
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Post by jin167 on Sept 23, 2017 11:16:00 GMT -6
Using grace design M905 here and I chose it because of the way it handles the signal routing, not because of its sound quality (although the DAC on this thing is exceptional). IMO I don't think changing a monitor controller would help you with hearing reverb better. Try changing your speakers perhaps?
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Post by swurveman on Sept 23, 2017 11:27:38 GMT -6
I use a Coleman audio passive controller, it's great, I highly recommend it. No coloration that I can tell. I wouldn't buy a dangerous or any of the more expensive units unless I was using the added features (DA etc). But that's just me. On another note. Have you tried mixing on headphones for reverb balances? My room is a little too dead and I was having the same problem. Got some better headphones and it really helped. Thanks for your opinion Tbone81. I do mix with headphones as well, but would prefer to hear reverb in my monitors. The other element is monitor width and distance from the listening position. I positioned my speakers based on Jeff's recommendation which was probably based on frequency response-particularly low end. They are around ~65" apart which may hinder the focus of the reverb. I am hesitant to change their distamce apart due to not wanting to mess up the low end response.
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Post by swurveman on Sept 23, 2017 11:31:11 GMT -6
Using grace design M905 here and I chose it because of the way it handles the signal routing, not because of its sound quality (although the DAC on this thing is exceptional). IMO I don't think changing a monitor controller would help you with hearing reverb better. Try changing your speakers perhaps? What d/a were you using before and what has improved in what you hear with the Grace d/a?
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Post by jin167 on Sept 23, 2017 11:44:58 GMT -6
Using grace design M905 here and I chose it because of the way it handles the signal routing, not because of its sound quality (although the DAC on this thing is exceptional). IMO I don't think changing a monitor controller would help you with hearing reverb better. Try changing your speakers perhaps? What d/a were you using before and what has improved in what you hear with the Grace d/a? I was using Prism Lyra2 and Antelope Pure2. I didn't hear a dramatic change when I moved on to Grace (sorry but I'm not one of those 'night and day difference' people). Subtle difference in character across the spectrum but I can happily work with any one of them.
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Post by swurveman on Sept 23, 2017 11:56:37 GMT -6
What d/a were you using before and what has improved in what you hear with the Grace d/a? I was using Prism Lyra2 and Antelope Pure2. I didn't hear a dramatic change when I moved on to Grace (sorry but I'm not one of those 'night and day difference' people). Subtle difference in character across the spectrum but I can happily work with any one of them. Thanks. The Grace m905 analog is $2,370.00 and the one with d/a is $3,325.00. That's a lot of money to pay for a subtle difference.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Sept 23, 2017 12:01:26 GMT -6
I'd suggest a passive controller and upgrading the monitors.
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Post by swurveman on Sept 23, 2017 12:06:29 GMT -6
I'd suggest a passive controller and upgrading the monitors. Which one's? I actually rarely use my NS10's or my Adam sub. So, I could sell both sets of monitors, the sub and the Presonous controller and have some cash to spend.
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Post by jin167 on Sept 23, 2017 12:13:21 GMT -6
I was using Prism Lyra2 and Antelope Pure2. I didn't hear a dramatic change when I moved on to Grace (sorry but I'm not one of those 'night and day difference' people). Subtle difference in character across the spectrum but I can happily work with any one of them. Thanks. The Grace m905 analog is $2,370.00 and the one with d/a is $3,325.00. That's a lot of money to pay for a subtle difference. Mind you, extra money is not just for an additional DAC. It allows you to include digital signals in your routing which can be quiet useful depending on your setup (I'm using several different converters so it is essential for me). I think there's one used for $2500 on reverb atm if you are interested.
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Post by swurveman on Sept 23, 2017 12:16:01 GMT -6
Thanks. The Grace m905 analog is $2,370.00 and the one with d/a is $3,325.00. That's a lot of money to pay for a subtle difference. Mind you, extra money is not just for an additional DAC. It allows you to include digital signals in your routing which can be quiet useful depending on your setup (I'm using several different converters so it is essential for me). I think there's one used for $2500 on reverb atm if you are interested. If you don't mind, which converters and for what purpose are you routing them through your Grace?
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Post by jcoutu1 on Sept 23, 2017 12:31:20 GMT -6
I'd suggest a passive controller and upgrading the monitors. Which one's? I actually rarely use my NS10's or my Adam sub. So, I could sell both sets of monitors, the sub and the Presonous controller and have some cash to spend. Which monitors is a great question, but doesn't have a real answer. Everyone has different preferences. I just picked up some Amphion speakers and think they sound great so far, but that's my ears, in my room.
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Post by Tbone81 on Sept 23, 2017 13:20:52 GMT -6
I use a Coleman audio passive controller, it's great, I highly recommend it. No coloration that I can tell. I wouldn't buy a dangerous or any of the more expensive units unless I was using the added features (DA etc). But that's just me. On another note. Have you tried mixing on headphones for reverb balances? My room is a little too dead and I was having the same problem. Got some better headphones and it really helped. Thanks for your opinion Tbone81. I do mix with headphones as well, but would prefer to hear reverb in my monitors. The other element is monitor width and distance from the listening position. I positioned my speakers based on Jeff's recommendation which was probably based on frequency response-particularly low end. They are around ~65" apart which may hinder the focus of the reverb. I am hesitant to change their distamce apart due to not wanting to mess up the low end response. I have Adam A7's and in my experience they're a little directional. Maybe just check how they're angled and you might see and improvement. In my old room I had a very narrow sweet spot. In my new room they're much better but have noticed a difference in panning and spacial cues in relation to how they are angled.
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Post by swurveman on Sept 23, 2017 14:40:50 GMT -6
Thanks for your opinion Tbone81. I do mix with headphones as well, but would prefer to hear reverb in my monitors. The other element is monitor width and distance from the listening position. I positioned my speakers based on Jeff's recommendation which was probably based on frequency response-particularly low end. They are around ~65" apart which may hinder the focus of the reverb. I am hesitant to change their distamce apart due to not wanting to mess up the low end response. I have Adam A7's and in my experience they're a little directional. Maybe just check how they're angled and you might see and improvement. In my old room I had a very narrow sweet spot. In my new room they're much better but have noticed a difference in panning and spacial cues in relation to how they are angled. Thanks, I'll check it out.
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Post by swurveman on Sept 23, 2017 14:49:59 GMT -6
Which one's? I actually rarely use my NS10's or my Adam sub. So, I could sell both sets of monitors, the sub and the Presonous controller and have some cash to spend. Which monitors is a great question, but doesn't have a real answer. Everyone has different preferences. I just picked up some Amphion speakers and think they sound great so far, but that's my ears, in my room. Lots of people love the Amphions. I was skeptical because of the Gearslutz hype, but everybody here sings their praises as well.
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Post by jin167 on Sept 23, 2017 20:54:10 GMT -6
Mind you, extra money is not just for an additional DAC. It allows you to include digital signals in your routing which can be quiet useful depending on your setup (I'm using several different converters so it is essential for me). I think there's one used for $2500 on reverb atm if you are interested. If you don't mind, which converters and for what purpose are you routing them through your Grace? For example, at the moment I have pure2 going out to a transfer console for analog processing then into lyra2 for digital processing + limiting. I can route digital out from pure2 to grace for before and digital out from lyra2 for after.
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 14,934
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Post by ericn on Sept 23, 2017 21:21:30 GMT -6
I use a Coleman audio passive controller, it's great, I highly recommend it. No coloration that I can tell. I wouldn't buy a dangerous or any of the more expensive units unless I was using the added features (DA etc). But that's just me. On another note. Have you tried mixing on headphones for reverb balances? My room is a little too dead and I was having the same problem. Got some better headphones and it really helped. Coleman, simplicity at its best ! I do wish someone would build something with great bass management for multiple monitors and subs Oh Brad !!
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Post by Tbone81 on Sept 24, 2017 15:53:41 GMT -6
I use a Coleman audio passive controller, it's great, I highly recommend it. No coloration that I can tell. I wouldn't buy a dangerous or any of the more expensive units unless I was using the added features (DA etc). But that's just me. On another note. Have you tried mixing on headphones for reverb balances? My room is a little too dead and I was having the same problem. Got some better headphones and it really helped. Coleman, simplicity at its best ! I do wish someone would build something with great bass management for multiple monitors and subs Oh Brad !! Yeah it would be nice to be able to easy turn off my sub, but not sure how that would effect the cross over...
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 14,934
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Post by ericn on Sept 24, 2017 15:59:07 GMT -6
Coleman, simplicity at its best ! I do wish someone would build something with great bass management for multiple monitors and subs Oh Brad !! Yeah it would be nice to be able to easy turn off my sub, but not sure how that would effect the cross over... That would be the idea say cards like BSS for filters and have sperate cards for each monitor high pass with and without sub & different cards for subs with each monitor & set up for stereo or mono sub ! Complicated hell yes! I remember a room that had a bunch of BSS FDS 360's on the patchbay for different monitor configurations!
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Post by mulmany on Sept 25, 2017 12:28:25 GMT -6
For good bass management you need to go to a 5.1... surround controller. Then it would give you all the recallable configurations you could want.
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Post by sozocaps on Sept 25, 2017 16:29:10 GMT -6
I own a Presounous Central Station with ADAM A7x and NS10 speakers. With this setup, I have trouble hearing reverb balances in my mixes. I had my mix room done by Jeff Hedback. So, though it's not a truly professional environment it's pretty good for the money. So, I'm wondeirng if a higher end monitor controller will solve hearing reverb balances better. I would love to hear better the layering of rooms, halls, chambers and plates combined in a mix. If anybody has experience with one of the top end controllers-Cranesong/Dangerous/Grace etc- could you advise me if these would solve my reverb monitoring? I really don't understand why high end controllers would be better for seperating things like reverb in evaluating a mix. So, I'm intereted in hearing opinions and understanding these monitor controllers better. Thanks to anybody who reponds! I owned a Presonus Central Station and was never settled on liking it and got a good deal on an Apogee DAC so purchased that almost right after. I also noticed I was having problems with the high end on the Central Station. When I got the Apogee I was blown away.... and what I remember is (Ten years ago) the Presonus was disconnected sounding. The high end was beaming , the mids were disconnected and super scooped and there was no low end extension (about an octave missing). The apogee sounded true and solid... I still own it actually.
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