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Post by ChaseUTB on Sept 18, 2017 16:06:52 GMT -6
Charge by the hour, not by the project. If clients can barely afford your services at the rate it's at how do you suppose charging by the hour, which will cost the client more, will help maintain good rapport and repetitive return business? I understand that you mean from the beginning of the business relationship to state that you charge by the hour so one is not in the predicament I typed above... Also how do you show clients you actually worked in said project say for ex: 8 hours? Yes my clients trust me... From my point of view, I already know if I were paying someone hourly I would need some sort of reassurance that the person actually worked 8 hours on my project.. Have heard of a hofa plugin however I can think of ways that could be manipulated too... jcoutu1 what do you think?
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Post by bluegrassdan on Sept 18, 2017 16:12:18 GMT -6
I talk with the clients upfront and tell them what is my hourly charge. I then keep a spreadsheet with the work I have done (tracking, editing, mixing, etc.) and the amount of time rounded to the nearest 15 minutes.
Then you present them with a quality project and they come back again.
Way better than everyone getting in over their head.
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Post by svart on Sept 18, 2017 18:45:01 GMT -6
Don't get mad when you've spent the hardest 4 hours of your life on your best mix ever, and the client says "this'll sound great once it's mixed!"
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Post by svart on Sept 18, 2017 18:46:28 GMT -6
Go with your gut instinct. Don't just try random stuff to see how it sounds. You'll confuse stuff that's cool with stuff that the mix really needed.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Sept 19, 2017 9:33:47 GMT -6
Best lesson ever.. there were two mixes released of The Psychedelic Furs "Until She Comes". I think one was in the UK, one for the U.S. Steven Street did one, and Hugh Padgham did the other. They had the exact same tracks to work with. The Steven Street mix had gigantic drums that to my ears, interfered with the music in general. It sounded perfectly fine until you hear Hugh Padgham's mix. His mix had something so magical, it's astonishing. The 80's drums were of course plenty big, but Padgham weaved in a little keyboard part in such a way it sounded like bagpipes calling from across a lake. The interplay and the balance was seamless, and the music transported you to a place in your imagination, where you're that guy waiting for the woman whose grip on your heart's so strong, you can barely breath.
I've only ever gotten that effect once in all my productions. I was helped by the brilliant mastering Jesse Coutou did on the track. That's my goal when mixing, do the elements combine in an alchemy of magic, or is it just a "good" sound production. Think about it, many of our choices of classic reference albums have minor mistakes all over them, but together, magic.
The Stones pull that trick all the time. Listen to Jumping' Jack Flash, you could pick a half dozen "errors" in production, and that song is just amazing.
So I guess my one liner is, choose the magical mix, not the "best" one.
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Post by noah shain on Sept 19, 2017 10:18:59 GMT -6
Get your vocal and drums right on the edge of too loud and then push em up 2db.
I know, I know...you can listen to the instrumental when you're alone to get off on all the hard work you did that nobody can hear with that vocal up so loud.
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Post by cowboycoalminer on Sept 19, 2017 11:35:41 GMT -6
Get your vocal and drums right on the edge of too loud and then push em up 2db. I know, I know...you can listen to the instrumental when you're alone to get off on all the hard work you did that nobody can hear with that vocal up so loud. A mixer after my own heart.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Sept 19, 2017 11:57:25 GMT -6
Charge by the hour, not by the project. If clients can barely afford your services at the rate it's at how do you suppose charging by the hour, which will cost the client more, will help maintain good rapport and repetitive return business? I understand that you mean from the beginning of the business relationship to state that you charge by the hour so one is not in the predicament I typed above... Also how do you show clients you actually worked in said project say for ex: 8 hours? Yes my clients trust me... From my point of view, I already know if I were paying someone hourly I would need some sort of reassurance that the person actually worked 8 hours on my project.. Have heard of a hofa plugin however I can think of ways that could be manipulated too... jcoutu1 what do you think? If everyone charged by the hour, rather than by the project, nobody would be getting stuck biting off more than they can chew.
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Post by rowmat on Sept 19, 2017 12:21:49 GMT -6
We charge by the hour although we did just quote $100 per song to clean up three live tracks and mix them (two close mics and a room mic) for a video clip.
Charging by the project is the best way to go broke and mad at the same time!
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Post by joseph on Sept 19, 2017 15:02:35 GMT -6
Keep your beer away from my equipment.
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Post by bluegrassdan on Sept 19, 2017 15:06:58 GMT -6
Charging by the hour also changes the dynamic of the session. Everyone is eager to get down to business. Doesn't mean that you cut corners either.
And the artists tend to respect the fee structure because everything is clear up front. No assumptions.
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Post by notneeson on Sept 19, 2017 17:54:04 GMT -6
Another issue is clients getting so used to hearing the rough(s) that they have trouble warming to the final(s) even if they are miles better. In that case, go with the rough mix.
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Post by ChaseUTB on Sept 19, 2017 21:02:48 GMT -6
If clients can barely afford your services at the rate it's at how do you suppose charging by the hour, which will cost the client more, will help maintain good rapport and repetitive return business? I understand that you mean from the beginning of the business relationship to state that you charge by the hour so one is not in the predicament I typed above... Also how do you show clients you actually worked in said project say for ex: 8 hours? Yes my clients trust me... From my point of view, I already know if I were paying someone hourly I would need some sort of reassurance that the person actually worked 8 hours on my project.. Have heard of a hofa plugin however I can think of ways that could be manipulated too... jcoutu1 what do you think? If everyone charged by the hour, rather than by the project, nobody would be getting stuck biting off more than they can chew. That's A good way to skate around the thin ice π I already stated the obvious .. charging hourly from the very start.. Most my clients are long distance there is no way to prove how many hours I Mixed or mastered. And seeing as clients can barely afford what they can how do you suppose telling them to pay hourly which will cost more will go? Even with trust, a spreadsheet would be laughed at, and more than likely would lose business Those are the points I was hoping you would elaborate on but it's no biggie ... I need all the clientele I can get and I have overworked before but don't often... Edit* I know it's not that big of deal was just interested how you approach the uneasy clients... no worries man π€π€ Edit 2: Sorry for the OT... I got a One liner tho.... Every DAW sounds different π
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Post by rowmat on Sept 19, 2017 21:49:27 GMT -6
In that case, go with the rough mix. Well there's always exceptions to the rule! "More barn!"
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Post by donr on Sept 19, 2017 22:19:25 GMT -6
Sometimes you can't beat the rough. Think about it, in the 'old days,' it was ALWAYS the "rough." The tape you left with after the day's session was the record. I listen to the old recordings that created my love of recorded music, and I never think that they should be remixed, or remastered for that matter.
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Post by jazznoise on Sept 20, 2017 6:41:55 GMT -6
Tonight's The Night is also a great record. That song gives me the spooks.
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Post by joseph on Sept 20, 2017 9:45:35 GMT -6
Tonight's The Night is also a great record. That song gives me the spooks. Yeah, that album perfectly exemplifies a less is more approach when it comes to production.
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 14,934
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Post by ericn on Sept 20, 2017 11:38:48 GMT -6
Often it comes down to shut up and listen, if it works it works! Thinking about it can suck the life out of a mix.
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Post by swurveman on Sept 20, 2017 11:56:08 GMT -6
Charge by the hour, not by the project. If clients can barely afford your services at the rate it's at how do you suppose charging by the hour, which will cost the client more, will help maintain good rapport and repetitive return business? That works both ways: I just did my first flat rate project. The band came into the studio unrehearsed and spent hours discussing chord changes and working out arrangements and parts. That never happened when i charged by the hour. Based on that experience, if I ever do flat rate pricing again-which I doubt I ever will but you never know- I would have a caveat in the flat rate to say how many hours of tracking that includes. Otherwise, your studio could be used as a rehearsal space. Even one of the band members- seeing what was going on- came to me and said, "you should only give so much time as a "flat rate". People will take advantage of you". Lesson learned the hard way. Never again.
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Post by swurveman on Sept 20, 2017 13:08:09 GMT -6
Get your vocal and drums right on the edge of too loud and then push em up 2db. I know, I know...you can listen to the instrumental when you're alone to get off on all the hard work you did that nobody can hear with that vocal up so loud. Exhibit A
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Post by jeremygillespie on Sept 20, 2017 14:46:45 GMT -6
Get your vocal and drums right on the edge of too loud and then push em up 2db. I know, I know...you can listen to the instrumental when you're alone to get off on all the hard work you did that nobody can hear with that vocal up so loud. Exhibit A Aton Ben Horin, global vice president of A&R at Warner Music Group said, "Without a doubt, this girl is a real star with undeniable talent" .....uhhh, WHAT?!?!?!
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Post by swurveman on Sept 20, 2017 15:16:35 GMT -6
Aton Ben Horin, global vice president of A&R at Warner Music Group said, "Without a doubt, this girl is a real star with undeniable talent" .....uhhh, WHAT?!?!?! I guess taking a 14 year old and making her all ghetto talking about hoes is a winning formula in our trash culture. Her dad Ira isn't happy about it. "Ira told Sun Online: "I don't care that she got a record deal with Atlantic - it's just another form of exploiting this child. JK: Sorry for th hijack. Delete this if you want.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Sept 21, 2017 7:36:32 GMT -6
If everyone charged by the hour, rather than by the project, nobody would be getting stuck biting off more than they can chew. That's A good way to skate around the thin ice π I already stated the obvious .. charging hourly from the very start.. Most my clients are long distance there is no way to prove how many hours I Mixed or mastered. And seeing as clients can barely afford what they can how do you suppose telling them to pay hourly which will cost more will go? Even with trust, a spreadsheet would be laughed at, and more than likely would lose business Those are the points I was hoping you would elaborate on but it's no biggie ... I need all the clientele I can get and I have overworked before but don't often... Edit* I know it's not that big of deal was just interested how you approach the uneasy clients... no worries man π€π€ Edit 2: Sorry for the OT... I got a One liner tho.... Every DAW sounds different π If charging hourly will cost them more, then your flat rate is too low. I was more talking about a flat rate for a start to finish project including tracking, mixing, etc. There needs to be caps in place for flat rate projects, if you're going that route. For example... EP Project Package A Includes - 3x10 hour days tracking, 5 songs, all mixed, 2 mix revisions, x amount of dollars. $40/hour additional tracking time. $50/additional mix revision. Something structured like that. I'm sure that we've all gotten into a project before where the artist lacks focus and is just burning your time because there isn't a "clock" running. Mixing is a bit of a different beast because you're your own clock though. Limiting revisions is important though. Have the group, or team, or whatever all get their notes on the same page before submitting. Make the changes. Maybe allow for a second round of tweaks, then delivery. I'm not saying that I've got it all figured out, and every situation is different, but having a well laid out structure seems best for everyone involved. Just my 2 cents.
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Post by EmRR on Sept 21, 2017 8:10:46 GMT -6
Hourly is a standard in almost every business. Its not abnormal. The clients may be abnormal: you don't want them in that case. If running standard business practices seems distrustful, then you've already lost the client anyway, in fact they were never actually a client. In fact, I've never seen a flat rate than made any sense. The only one that makes sense to me is charging way too much, and that's not cool. The other option is too little: why would I do that? With a finite amount of time to provide services to clients, you are robbing from yourself while making yourself unavailable to other clients. Generally the client who wants a flat rate for a project is going to luxuriate in their open ended creative spirit, on your endlessly provide time. If everyone charged by the hour, rather than by the project, nobody would be getting stuck biting off more than they can chew. That's A good way to skate around the thin ice π I already stated the obvious .. charging hourly from the very start.. Most my clients are long distance there is no way to prove how many hours I Mixed or mastered. And seeing as clients can barely afford what they can how do you suppose telling them to pay hourly which will cost more will go? Even with trust, a spreadsheet would be laughed at, and more than likely would lose business Those are the points I was hoping you would elaborate on but it's no biggie ... I need all the clientele I can get and I have overworked before but don't often... Edit* I know it's not that big of deal was just interested how you approach the uneasy clients... no worries man π€π€ Edit 2: Sorry for the OT... I got a One liner tho.... Every DAW sounds different π
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Post by notneeson on Sept 21, 2017 10:21:16 GMT -6
I will occasionally mix on a flat rate for an old friend, or because I think it will lead to more business. Sometime it's a pain, but recalls are pretty easy with my setup.
I charge per day for tracking outside my project studio, but after 10 (including a meal break) any additional time is at my discretion. Usually it's a non issue.
Because the bigger rooms I book are about an hour from home, I avoid half days like the plague. Unless there's a reason why it works for me.
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