Post by jazznoise on Sept 17, 2017 8:00:24 GMT -6
Sept 16, 2017 11:10:18 GMT -6 @shadowamd said:
mrholmes Yes, lets not allow interesting topics to organically grow. If only this was a forum to discuss matters of music and recording, oh wait..!
Agreed. We're talking drums, we're talking aesthetics, we're talking music - it's on topic.
Sept 16, 2017 11:10:18 GMT -6 @shadowamd said:
jazznoise
I'm not really disagreeing with you, I used to love metal and over the course of two decades it's become somewhat white noise. Saying it's "your decision" is like saying the sky is blue, it's obvious but it doesn't stop them doing it en mass. Here's the thing, they only need to crack out superior drummer and a Line 6 device then go for it..
What you've said is great in theory here. It's a low resource way to easily make your art. On that level, that's fine. But I wasn't really talking bedroom bands (ie bands without giggable rigs or kits to make and perform the music with) as the cost from them to self record is insanely cheap. An interface and an Audix Drum Mic pack and you're there. Amongst a 4 piece, it's cheap and easy. But in the context I spoke, we weren't even really talking self engineering bands. We're talking guys who hire a guy and then instruct them to strip all the character from their music. It's a bizarre and very real paradigm.
Sept 16, 2017 11:10:18 GMT -6 @shadowamd said:
I don't quite understand what the point of your last point is, although my point was doing metal "properly" is an expensive and inconvenient venture that can easily be shunned for many of the reasons you mention. I understand (to an extent) why they do hang onto pre-conceived notions and follow formula's as such.. It's an ironic genre filled full of biasm in what's supposed to be an artistic and expressive medium. It'd be interesting to see how Iron Maiden would do if they were to be released today..
Not following your point here, ironically. I guess what I was saying is that these bands get so hung up on optics that they stop making music. At times, I think the core issue is just musicians who are really more into being seen to be in a band than they are to actually making interesting music. The band has to sound 'profesh' even if the music stinks. It's bad obviously, it's a toxic culture to make music in but even from the cynical standpoint it comes from I frankly don't see why anyone feels like making samey sounding music will get them noticed. It's like modelling your restaurant on McDonalds and hoping people will come because it looks like McDonalds - they have the head start on that, you're probably not going to win.
Sept 16, 2017 11:10:18 GMT -6 @shadowamd said:
Using the same recording methodologies and programming procedures a lot of times ends up in similar results, can't say I personally love any VST drum software even though I use them a lot.. Don't get me wrong it's a far cry from the original Toontrack released but if you want a track to sound really good, I'd avoid. I suppose it's just like the "prosumer" recording movement, where a track would sound better in the hands of a professional using decent gear but cost / convenience rules the roost.. It's also far easier to "get right".
I think the specific issue we were talking about here is not a recording system based on monetary and material restrictions, we're talking about the creative decision to replace entire musicians with computers imitating musicians. I think it's fine if you want to have a 909 blasting in the background, or you want to use a bass synth instead of a bass guitar, but to do it for vanity ("Heh our drummer's amazing,listen to this") seems totally pointless. Even if it were that the programmed drums were doing things that would be musically impossible for a musician (64th note triplet kicks held for 5 minutes) it would have merit. But it's saccharine - it's someone giving you a chemical with the intent of making you believe it's sugar.
I use drum loops in some stuff for people I work for, usually supplementing it with additional programming. For hybrid setups programmed kits and loops are perfect, they're flexible and give the gestalt of a kit. You're not committing to performances and paying for musicians to come back in because the song structure has changed. I'll routinely layer these with accents and artificial drum machine sounds because the intended effect is not to replicate a drummer's performance but just to give some sort of underlying groove to the song. On the current project I'm working for with that, it doesn't sound real. It shouldn't, it's meant to be crazy Dance/Rock/Hip Hop stuff. I'll post some loops when I get back to my studio here just for context.
I still end up toying with accents and muting certain velocity layers for hours. Maybe the syncopated snares are one machine, but you combine them with one from another on the 2 and 4. Maybe a short decay for the fast kicks, longer for the downbeat etc. Ultimately, there is no right way to make music, but I think imitating the process of other's step by step is severely misguided.