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Post by mrholmes on Aug 30, 2017 3:02:32 GMT -6
I am not a drummer but.
I have to write a Punk/Rock Song and I have to say fake drums such as XLN or Logic-Drums do sound LAME.
Special the loud snare hits make the impression that always the same or a very very similar sample gets triggerd.
The less the drums have to play the same thing over and over again, the more real they sound to me.
They show thier weakness very fast.... it sounds not bad but you always have this 80s impression special on the snare.
Lets say the static feel of a sample.
This is one case for my friend the real human drummer...
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Post by allbuttonmode on Aug 30, 2017 3:22:44 GMT -6
To be fair, most punkrock recordings today are sampled and gridded to hell and back. It's the sound they want. I don't agree with it, though.
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Post by mrholmes on Aug 30, 2017 3:59:15 GMT -6
To be fair, most punkrock recordings today are sampled and gridded to hell and back. It's the sound they want. I don't agree with it, though. Mh intresting, but its played by humans is nt it? And it do not sounds static to me. It may is possible that they mix a sample under the real drums? |
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Post by allbuttonmode on Aug 30, 2017 4:31:28 GMT -6
Mh intresting, but its played by humans is nt it? And it do not sounds static to me. It may is possible that they mix a sample under the real drums? Yes, I guess they do. But they push the samples to the front instead of tucking them under the original signals. That's what it sounds like to me, anyway. Can't for the life of me find a good example right now, though... |
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Post by jcoutu1 on Aug 30, 2017 4:39:58 GMT -6
Mh intresting, but its played by humans is nt it? And it do not sounds static to me. It may is possible that they mix a sample under the real drums? Yes, I guess they do. But they push the samples to the front instead of tucking them under the original signals. That's what it sounds like to me, anyway. Can't for the life of me find a good example right now, though... I use this as a reference for a lot of rock stuff. |
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Post by kilroyrock on Aug 30, 2017 4:49:10 GMT -6
I know the guy who does All time low. He actually uses the real drums, but creates samples of the kit used to record and puts the best sample in place. It's the pop punk sound. Paul is an excellent engineer and can get the best out of the bands that come through for him. I've seen him work wonders.
That said, I use ez drummer a lot when demoing, and I write a lot of punk rock. I agree the ones you mentioned don't work. You can always randomize the velocity of the snare hits and rolls though, and that tends to help with fakeness. Also, use flams in fills, less Toms. Vary velocity on floor Tom work.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Aug 30, 2017 5:01:00 GMT -6
I know the guy who does All time low. He actually uses the real drums, but creates samples of the kit used to record and puts the best sample in place. It's the pop punk sound. Paul is an excellent engineer and can get the best out of the bands that come through for him. I've seen him work wonders. That's pretty cool. This is a CLA mix too. It's really well done, all around. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Aug 30, 2017 6:36:38 GMT -6
Yes, I guess they do. But they push the samples to the front instead of tucking them under the original signals. That's what it sounds like to me, anyway. Can't for the life of me find a good example right now, though... I use this as a reference for a lot of rock stuff.  |
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Post by jcoutu1 on Aug 30, 2017 7:02:02 GMT -6
I use this as a reference for a lot of rock stuff. You don't think that nails the modern pop punk sound? |
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Post by mrholmes on Aug 30, 2017 7:08:34 GMT -6
Yes, I guess they do. But they push the samples to the front instead of tucking them under the original signals. That's what it sounds like to me, anyway. Can't for the life of me find a good example right now, though... I use this as a reference for a lot of rock stuff. Jupp this one sounds static as well to my ears but the snare is mixed beautiful.... yummy |
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Post by thehightenor on Aug 30, 2017 7:09:45 GMT -6
Yes, I guess they do. But they push the samples to the front instead of tucking them under the original signals. That's what it sounds like to me, anyway. Can't for the life of me find a good example right now, though... I use this as a reference for a lot of rock stuff. It's a great sounding track - soooo much energy. |
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Post by svart on Aug 30, 2017 7:16:37 GMT -6
I know the guy who does All time low. He actually uses the real drums, but creates samples of the kit used to record and puts the best sample in place. It's the pop punk sound. Paul is an excellent engineer and can get the best out of the bands that come through for him. I've seen him work wonders. That said, I use ez drummer a lot when demoing, and I write a lot of punk rock. I agree the ones you mentioned don't work. You can always randomize the velocity of the snare hits and rolls though, and that tends to help with fakeness. Also, use flams in fills, less Toms. Vary velocity on floor Tom work. Any chance you could get him to do one of our Q/A threads? I'm always working with pop punk or indie folks who are after this type of sound, and any info would be great for me.. |
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Post by noah shain on Aug 30, 2017 8:11:14 GMT -6
I've done quite a few productions with programmed drums in place of real ones. If you take the time to do detailed programming and make sure it's "played" like a drummer and then print each drum track to audio separately (kick, snare, toms, oh, etc) and treat it like a recorded drum kit you can get it to sound pretty convincing.
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Post by Tbone81 on Aug 30, 2017 8:52:58 GMT -6
I've done quite a few productions with programmed drums in place of real ones. If you take the time to do detailed programming and make sure it's "played" like a drummer and then print each drum track to audio separately (kick, snare, toms, oh, etc) and treat it like a recorded drum kit you can get it to sound pretty convincing. I second that. It can be pretty tedious and time consuming though. In cubase there is a random quantize function that will move hits by a random amount (you set the range). It really helps bring realism to programmed drums. Its great on HH, and snares. Not sure if Logic has the same thing. Also not sure if you have a "dynamics" control in logic drums? Something that increases variation of hit strength, velocity etc? |
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Post by popmann on Aug 30, 2017 10:14:34 GMT -6
The posted example is a sample--just not a good one. It's literally "machine gunning" on every fill because it's the same sample.
15min after opening Logic:
DELETED
Admittedly, 14 of those was "composing" such a boss riff (sic)....I probably should've taken the time to actually like quad track it, but you're not really asking about guitar sounds.
I just picked some "punk" drummer track....I feel like a scrolled a few of the beats to land on that one....then changed the instrument to AD2, scrolled a few of the Fairfax Bundle presets....so one minute in, the drums sounded like this playing this. The rest of the 15 min was spent channeling my inner 13 year old sloppy guitar player for some context...
I've now spent longer typing this and than making that recording. Enjoy. Hump day punk for all!!
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Post by popmann on Aug 30, 2017 11:34:47 GMT -6
I forgot to mention, related to the drums....I turned the AD2 reverbs off....and when the thing got slammed through the limiter, the room mics came down some, too, since that pushed them up too far.
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Post by Johnkenn on Aug 30, 2017 11:51:13 GMT -6
I'm buying Superior 3...that should solve all my problems.  |
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Post by johneppstein on Aug 30, 2017 12:51:20 GMT -6
To be fair, most punkrock recordings today are sampled and gridded to hell and back. It's the sound they want. I don't agree with it, though. To be fair, there are almost NO punk rock recordings made today. They're all friggin' poseurs. Punk rock is 3 or 4 guys or girls banging on real instruments of the best quality they can afford (meaning that unless they're famous it's probably the cheapest stuff the hock shop had) and expressing themselves. Punk rock is not performed on computers. That being said my (online) friend Chris Witten has done a number of sets for Toontracks (publisher of the Superior line) and they do multiple hits on all instruments and have some sort of algo to mix them up to sound more real that the cheesier alternatives. If you really MUST use fake drums. |
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Post by EmRR on Aug 30, 2017 13:04:18 GMT -6
Yeah, it's gone all bubble gum on us.
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Post by schmalzy on Aug 30, 2017 14:16:19 GMT -6
One of my faves in the last bunch of years.
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Post by popmann on Aug 30, 2017 14:26:17 GMT -6
C'mon....punks were AWLAYS posers.
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Post by mrholmes on Aug 30, 2017 16:32:32 GMT -6
I've done quite a few productions with programmed drums in place of real ones. If you take the time to do detailed programming and make sure it's "played" like a drummer and then print each drum track to audio separately (kick, snare, toms, oh, etc) and treat it like a recorded drum kit you can get it to sound pretty convincing. Good advise, I forgot to change the Logic Drummer region to a Midi region to check if some notes where at the exact same velocity. And to my surprise there where a lot of. Lesson learned .... Logic Drummer needs some help to make it better. Happy again thanks for your help.... |
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Post by mrholmes on Aug 30, 2017 16:36:13 GMT -6
I've done quite a few productions with programmed drums in place of real ones. If you take the time to do detailed programming and make sure it's "played" like a drummer and then print each drum track to audio separately (kick, snare, toms, oh, etc) and treat it like a recorded drum kit you can get it to sound pretty convincing. I second that. It can be pretty tedious and time consuming though. In cubase there is a random quantize function that will move hits by a random amount (you set the range). It really helps bring realism to programmed drums. Its great on HH, and snares. Not sure if Logic has the same thing. Also not sure if you have a "dynamics" control in logic drums? Something that increases variation of hit strength, velocity etc? Thanks too see my last post, yes logic has all of this too.... after cheking the midi I am happy now. |
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Post by joseph on Aug 30, 2017 19:22:57 GMT -6
Jesus christ, with all the effort it takes to make fake drums convincing, you might as well learn to play real drums.
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Post by noah shain on Aug 31, 2017 8:22:02 GMT -6
I've done quite a few productions with programmed drums in place of real ones. If you take the time to do detailed programming and make sure it's "played" like a drummer and then print each drum track to audio separately (kick, snare, toms, oh, etc) and treat it like a recorded drum kit you can get it to sound pretty convincing. Good advise, I forgot to change the Logic Drummer region to a Midi region to check if some notes where at the exact same velocity. And to my surprise there where a lot of. Lesson learned .... Logic Drummer needs some help to make it better. Happy again thanks for your help.... Make sure the left hand (snare backbeat hand) is behaving properly, i.e.: some ghost notes double hits and such and also make sure hats and rides aren't playing when the right hand would be busy doing other things. |
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