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Post by popmann on Sept 26, 2017 14:59:11 GMT -6
In BFD2's engine it was called "velocity to amp"....which is admittedly a synth programmer's terminology.....but, effectively it means how much you want the velocity to effect the volume of the sound--adjusted by percentage 0-100%.....Addictive's is a knob that noon is 100% and you really need to turn it to OVER 100% to get it to be dynamic....so, it goes -100% to 200%.
In SD2 there's a setting for the drum under the "humanize" box at the bottom....that says "soft Vel"--clicking it's arrow will give y oua knob--which seems to work inverse to my brain, but it's default is 20 (8 oclock) at least in the Custom&Vintage I have....and you wouldraise that to get softer, more dynamic sound. There's a check box above it that says "vel to volume" that's on or off....I didn't find that did anything. I would assume it should be on, and is by default here....
Try it on a problem track. YMMV--it's not the same effect exactly....but, it's related to the dynamic response of the kit, which if you're not PLAYING it, you nearly always need to alter. If you (or a drummer listening to your track) plays a given sound, they hear it and respond appropriately, but a static MIDI file--be that Toontracks' PAKS or Logic's Drummer or some guy drumming to midi on the internet or whatever, won't have any idea how the destination is set to respond, so it just "is". Toontracks keeps their paks consistently NOT dynamic so that it works. They always edit the primary beats in the MIDI to hit hard, IME. It makes it easier to translate across different sound sets. a Snare at 127 feels similar on a kit with a lot of dynamics and one with none.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Sept 26, 2017 17:02:33 GMT -6
Thanks Popmann, I figured some of my issues were from my lack of deep understanding of the SD2 program itself.
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Post by popmann on Sept 26, 2017 20:01:54 GMT -6
Honestly, from the bit I know of your proclivity to the technical, your reading time would be better learning to use the Logic Drummer first--you need the content more than the sounds. If you don't like the sounds of the Producer Kits, it's easy enough to send pieces to other instruments once you've got it in the pocket.Except the hats which I've mentioned in this thread.
Also--if you need the MIDI, Toontracks is still officially not my cup o tea. Even before you get into the whole "following" of your audio and your tempo, etc....Apple has them beat on straight up beat variation and is way more my cup o tea. I'm auditioning these with Funky 16ths 102---the only pattern that comes up no matter what piece of "my drumming" I tap in....that's all it's got. It nicely shows the variable high hat, too, for anyone exploring SD3. THAT is what I'm talking about needing to happen that doesn't for "fake drums" to groove. High hat is the key to reality AND establishing a nice groove.
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Post by popmann on Sept 27, 2017 16:28:45 GMT -6
Not for nothing, but I demo'd ARMD....while this is not intended as anything more than informational for readers, addendum to something I said earlier based on clips and past use of the 60s drummer product--I think it would be a hard case to make that Abbey Road Modern drummer is more realistic sounding than SD3. I demo'd it, rather than judging from clips....right here next to SD3. No. It's not in the same league.
But, I'd point out that metal is also one of those genres that have never had drums that sounded real, even when they are/were. So, the sound of a real drum kit in a nice room will take a LOT of DSP to make over into a metal kit. ARMD might very well take a lot less.
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Post by swurveman on Sept 27, 2017 17:07:09 GMT -6
I think the fake v real drums battle has been lost in small studios. From my eperience bands want their drums to sound like the signed bands, and- at least for me who doesn't have a big room and the ability to do multiple room mics, nor has a U47 fet and Coles overheads etc.- all the VST's along with Trigger can give them close to what they want. Getting that done in my room with my mics would be a tall order. Much simpler to just trigger the samples either with Trigger at the channel level, or by assigning a midi note to the individual drums to a VST and then using parallel compression and Bus Compression etc. to get them where they want. Sometimes I'll use my Bricasti and run the kit through the "Studio B Far" setting to simulate far away stereo room mics and then squash the shit out of that to add some additional ambience.
Even for genre's like John Mayer, those drums don't sound "real" to me in the sense of a kit in a room. There's a lot of processing going on. I'm sure that maybe old blues and a few other genre's might like a bare bones 'real" approach, but most of who comes in my studio want modern sounding drums and that is a smapled sound with lots of compression and limiting.
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Post by NoFilterChuck on Sept 27, 2017 17:13:11 GMT -6
The only time i've really heard drums on records sound like they were a "kit in a room" is from old records like this, when it literally was a kit in a room:
everything else (modern jazz, rock, gospel, metal, fusion) doesn't sound like a kit in a room with the rest of the band. On a side note, it's amazing how much microphones and mic technique affect the way we expect to hear drums on records now. if they end up sounding like they do in that video, your engineer is fired!
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Post by lcr on Oct 6, 2017 17:19:47 GMT -6
The little Ive had a chance to use these, man this VI is really good. Even the hats mic sound good, at least on the kit Im using. I think its the Yamaha?
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Post by bartacusad on Oct 6, 2017 19:50:10 GMT -6
The little Ive had a chance to use these, man this VI is really good. Even the hats mic sound good, at least on the kit Im using. I think its the Yamaha? Yeah the Yamaha kit has become my go to kit.
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Post by Johnkenn on Oct 7, 2017 7:22:24 GMT -6
The little Ive had a chance to use these, man this VI is really good. Even the hats mic sound good, at least on the kit Im using. I think its the Yamaha? Yeah the Yamaha kit has become my go to kit. Yep. Me too.
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Post by lcr on Oct 7, 2017 9:48:48 GMT -6
Using trigger with the CLA bronze snare top mic and a second trigger instance with the CLA bronze snare room. Same sorta thing with the kick, 2 instances of trigger using Bendeth’s kick one either in or outside(cant remember) and one trigger instance the room. I did this with SD2 also. Having these trigger tracks to tuck underneath means less eqing and ambiance fx. That trigger CLA bronze snare is really snappy. I like how these blend with the SD3 Yamaha kit.
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Post by Johnkenn on Oct 7, 2017 18:58:11 GMT -6
Using trigger with the CLA bronze snare top mic and a second trigger instance with the CLA bronze snare room. Same sorta thing with the kick, 2 instances of trigger using Bendeth’s kick one either in or outside(cant remember) and one trigger instance the room. I did this with SD2 also. Having these trigger tracks to tuck underneath means less eqing and ambiance fx. That trigger CLA bronze snare is really snappy. I like how these blend with the SD3 Yamaha kit. What are the cla snares? I only know of the cla stuff in SSD
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Post by popmann on Oct 7, 2017 20:51:16 GMT -6
Aplsin to me what I'm missing here....is there no way to enable mono outputs from this instrument? I just got ready to sign off and render this tune to audio....and....I have to buss the kick to a stereo output? each tom renders it's own stereo track? Certainly I'm missing something. How do you have 32 outputs....all stereo....for a DRUM instrument?
How many of you just mix inside Superior and leave your drums MIDI?
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Post by lcr on Oct 7, 2017 21:00:57 GMT -6
Using trigger with the CLA bronze snare top mic and a second trigger instance with the CLA bronze snare room. Same sorta thing with the kick, 2 instances of trigger using Bendeth’s kick one either in or outside(cant remember) and one trigger instance the room. I did this with SD2 also. Having these trigger tracks to tuck underneath means less eqing and ambiance fx. That trigger CLA bronze snare is really snappy. I like how these blend with the SD3 Yamaha kit. What are the cla snares? I only know of the cla stuff in SSD stevenslatedrums.com/chris-lord-alge/
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Post by swurveman on Oct 8, 2017 8:29:46 GMT -6
Slate hit a home run with Trigger. Works flawlessly for me. Love the samples. I've never been able to program drums with a VST to sound as good as a live drummer with Trigger on the close mics and using the recorded overheads for high hat and cymbal crashes. The MIDI out also works well with my VST's (SD2/Addictive Drums/BFD) , but I prefer just triggering Slate's samples. It's faster using Slate's samples, but it's nice that it has a MIDI out if you want to use a VST for samples and rooms mics.
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Post by lcr on Oct 8, 2017 9:30:07 GMT -6
Yep. Trigger is def. one of my “would really miss” tools for sure if I didnt have it. Others that come to mind, Fabfilter EQ, and probably the BX Console E, really digging it. I know its new(er) but for me I think its gonna stick. Most other things have an alternative.
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Post by cowboycoalminer on Oct 8, 2017 12:19:42 GMT -6
What kind of music are you guys doing where AD2 sounds better than SD3?! I know we're way off into subjective land here but I own both and they are not even remotely in the same universe IMO. I do country, rock, and pop and have yet to find a stock kit in AD2 that I would use on anything that I would call a final production. You'd be way better off buying the Nir Z samples from That Sound and using Battery. Couldn't agree more. 95% of my stuff is using Battery and NirZ samples. I LOVE them. And have reverted back to them until I can get a handle on SD 3
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Post by popmann on Oct 8, 2017 13:51:27 GMT -6
I opened it as a multioutput in Cubase. No mono outputs.
Means for an eKit recording audio, you want BFD. All day. One feature. As a work around, you can assign the stereo output to a mono buss in Cubase and it will actually render as mono, FWIW. But, that means running stand alone and output analog audio to the recorder is even more of a PIA--you need to make sure you have RME or something that can do mixing chores like summing stereo to a mono output....
Interestingly, if you do the MIDI inside the SD3 sequencer, it will "bounce" mono mics as mono files.
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Post by popmann on Oct 20, 2017 12:37:35 GMT -6
Can someone who installed the whole 240gb do me a favor? If you open the Premiere Genista kit....when you of to the overhead condensers, do you get 12 mic bleed options or 11? I'm missing the high hat. EDIT -- never mind....I found it. If I open the Massenberg preset of the kit it's there.That's weird--I don't know what I started my preset with that only made the overheads have 12/12 (no hat) vs massenberg's having 0/13....? Weird. Disregard.
Also:side note, there was discussion earlier about sample rate. I'm sure this was sampled in HD. Reduced in editing so it could "only" take up 240gb of drive space and download bandwidth.
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Post by NoFilterChuck on Oct 20, 2017 23:44:28 GMT -6
"HD" being... 96khz 24bit?
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Post by popmann on Oct 21, 2017 16:54:46 GMT -6
At least.
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Post by Johnkenn on Oct 21, 2017 17:06:07 GMT -6
Weird thing the other night. I was gonna do that Upton sample at 96. But Cubase wouldn’t record. Switched back to 48 and it worked fine. I need to hook my hearback system back up analog so it doesn’t get squirrelly when I go past 48. That’s the main reason I don’t record in 96. Plus running out of resources.
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Post by popmann on Oct 21, 2017 17:37:44 GMT -6
Not hard to confirm. 32/192
VSL used 96k 18 years ago for what they still sell. Delivered at 44.
It's never been about the delivery. I was going to say something early on when it was brought up. My interactions with George there was little chance he used single rate digital for anything.
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Post by macsearcher on Oct 24, 2017 5:01:34 GMT -6
Can anyone chime in on how you are using the Tracker tab?
I am attempting to augment live drums that are not quantized. As far as I can tell, this isn't possible. SD3 forces you to either apply a tempo map that you create in SD3, import a tempo map from a midi file or follow the DAW tempo map. Even if you import a detailed midi tempo map with every 8th note mapped for slight tempo variance, you still get flamming. There is no way to simply import/export a track without applying SOME kind of tempo information. This completely removes the option for phase accurate augmentation.
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Post by popmann on Oct 24, 2017 8:46:32 GMT -6
I pulled a song's worth of real drums into it to explore the "new" features--the cymbals from overheads didn't work for shit....the high hat didn't detect remotely correct open to closed graduation....but, the shells did fine to me.
I never tried to import a tempo map--I just pulled in the folder full of timestamped WAVs. It detected what they were and took it from there.
EDIT: but also....I'm not going to be the expert on drum replacement. I didn't bother to try to import those replacements back into the DAW....so YMMV.
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Post by Johnkenn on Oct 24, 2017 18:53:51 GMT -6
Yeah...snare and kick seem to do well, but cymbals not so much. I can't figure out how to export say - just the snare...it always bounces all 405 channels...
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