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Post by Johnkenn on Aug 12, 2017 20:49:55 GMT -6
Oh yeah...and there are no record sales and streaming pays next to nothing.
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Post by NoFilterChuck on Aug 12, 2017 21:06:15 GMT -6
It's not a bad hustle if you specify UP FRONT a maximum of 2 small revisions (like, you replay a guitar solo or add some percussion. dumb, simple, 15-minute, maybe 20-minute fixes). After that, it costs X per hour, and you'll skype/facetime/record the sessions so they can participate/witness. Treat it like a real studio situation with minimum time commitments (like 3 hours) once it gets past those two revisions, where they pay hourly (and up front). Always remember, they reached out to you because they liked your sound. And Never ever NEVER EVER NEVER FREAKING EVER refund money for work you performed, even if the client isn't happy. Your opening line in every one of these internet hirings should be "50% non-refundable deposit". Stand up for your work, which is awesome, even if their tastes and opinions are objectively retarded. Always remember that they came to YOU because of your sound, so you should be paid when you deliver YOUR SOUND, even if they hate it.
Show me a contractor that performs a $40,000 kitchen remodel, and then doesn't charge the client because they didn't like the end result...
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Post by Johnkenn on Aug 12, 2017 21:23:33 GMT -6
It's not a bad hustle if you specify UP FRONT a maximum of 2 small revisions (like, you replay a guitar solo or add some percussion. dumb, simple, 15-minute, maybe 20-minute fixes). After that, it costs X per hour, and you'll skype/facetime/record the sessions so they can participate/witness. Treat it like a real studio situation with minimum time commitments (like 3 hours) once it gets past those two revisions, where they pay hourly (and up front). Always remember, they reached out to you because they liked your sound. And Never ever NEVER EVER NEVER FREAKING EVER refund money for work you performed, even if the client isn't happy. Your opening line in every one of these internet hirings should be "50% non-refundable deposit". Stand up for your work, which is awesome, even if their tastes and opinions are objectively retarded. Always remember that they came to YOU because of your sound, so you should be paid when you deliver YOUR SOUND, even if they hate it. Show me a contractor that performs a $40,000 kitchen remodel, and then doesn't charge the client because they didn't like the end result... Very true. This particular place you can do 50% up front or 100% in escrow. I chose the 50% up front for both. I've got an email in to the site to ask how we proceed from here. BTW - I said no more than 3 revisions and gave them 5. Still weren't happy. With this second one - I'd be fine just giving the money back. Chalk it up to lesson learned.
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Post by winetree on Aug 12, 2017 21:44:02 GMT -6
John, I think your thoughts on this topic or something like it came up awhile back. I remembering saying you should release your songs on your own. I still believe that . It does get tiring being the dream maker for somebody else just to make a buck. We all have done it. If it takes doing something else for a living, do it and get back what you really enjoy and have the talent for, making your music for yourself.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2017 21:52:32 GMT -6
It's not just your experience Noah - it's a verifiable fact of the laws of the universe. And now that everyone has a studio on their laptop, it's even worse. - John - I think you have the right idea -- don't do these kinds of gigs. They only go one direction. There are a thousand ways that are WAY easier to earn a buck. You're both definitely right...And I've had these experiences before. Don't know why I thought this would be different. The thought of money excited me. lol. As I said above, it's becoming more clear to me that it's time for me to move on from this as my sole profession. What I did for 18 years no longer exists. At least for me. I've watched friends (that I found out were just acquaintances) go on to have multiple No.1s. Some are SUPER talented and absolutely deserved what they got and some couldn't write their way out of a paper sack. But thems the breaks. I'm really not asking for pity - this has been a fantastic ride - and I'm sorry to talk about it so much on here - but it's who I am. I think talking about it is cathartic, so I appreciate you guys not telling me to just shut the fuck up (I would ban you lol) I got into this because I LOVED it. I loved writing what was in my heart and head - not striving to please anyone - just to be great like my artist heroes. Somewhere along the way it became un-fun...and I think it was due to unfortunate timing in the music industry. There really aren't outside songs these days. Artists write their own music - for good or bad. (Thanks, Taylor Swift) So, if you're not in the camp, good luck. I don't have the desire or the lack of self respect to chase 25 year old artists on their tour bus just to hope and get a song written between lines of coke. That's not what I got into this to do. And that seems to be the biggest echo in all of this. "That's not what I got into this to do." And man, the above stories are just more confirmation. It's a little too easy to become misanthropic throughout this venture, as we do tend to focus on the negatives as opposed to the positives. For every bad day I've had I also had ten good days, I've met life long friends.. Filled in for people and had a laugh, gone the extra mile and found solace in happy clients etc. I take stock in individuals not people as a whole, so y'know if it's something you really enjoy then I'd never let it get me down (hopefully). I mean this is why we engage on these forums right? In the real world once you've found a chain that works (which a lot of them do) you only upgrade once in a blue moon, so this board and GS would go dry pretty quick in that case .. Although chasing the unicorn is something I do regret, simply put when I first started out I couldn't mix my way out of a box (great analogy there ). I was obsessed with the sound of the greatest rock / metal bands, although the thing is I can actually play drums (in time), when I was young I was learning DragonForce's back catalogue so I'm not a bad guitarist and if nothing else I can sing in tune (or could anyway).. So I'm sat behind a board watching live shows struggling to pay the rent when platinum selling "artists" can't hold a tune or keep in time. Then it hit me,what am I doing? So I got a job as a "voice" programmer for various telecomms groups, I kept up the recording others for a few years on evenings and weekends.. Then life happend, now I have to redo years of practice to get back into form, then finally start doing what I was supposed to do nearly a decade and a half ago. Point is, you got to figure out your priorities before it's too late.. I just hope it's not for me.
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Post by drbill on Aug 12, 2017 22:04:03 GMT -6
To liken this to a favorite sport of mine - surfing - there is an interesting correlation. There are two kinds of world class surfers - pro surfers who surf for a living, and soul surfers who are often every bit as good, but whose whole life is just to be out on the water.....for the pure unadulterated joy. Neither surfer is intrinsically "better" than the other. Often times, they each wish for each others position in life, but the reality is, both types of surfing are very cool. Same with music. There's is no harm in hanging up the "pro" dream to pursue a more "soul" version of music. Neither is better. I love what I do, and I think that I'm blessed because I get to spend so much TIME doing it as a professional - much more time than a weekend warrior - but if I were to start over again, I'd be extremely cautious of making music a "profession", and instead think seriously about keeping it pure and fun - for me.
Luckily, I was able to escape LA and turn my career into making MY music instead of other knuckleheads music in the nick of time. Crazy insane clients were going to be the death of me. Leaving literally saved my life. At least it feels that way. I'm so glad to have left the prestigious projects and grammy's behind and make music that I JUST WANT TO MAKE!! I consider myself EXTREMELY lucky that I can prosper doing that, but I'm well aware that could change up and flip 180 at any juncture.
One thing I'm positive of - it's better to work a day job and earn a decent living that to make music for idiots and spend our lives trying to make them sound pro. That's a losing battle. And not a very fun one. Kills the joy of music.
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Post by drbill on Aug 12, 2017 22:06:37 GMT -6
Somehow, I find something incredibly humorous about comparing contractors and musicians. And ironically, so MANY contractors ARE musicians. Kind of warps my brain even thinking about it.
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Post by c0rtland on Aug 12, 2017 22:32:24 GMT -6
So glad to have this forum. Just finished mixing a post rock record. Wasn't fun. Learned a lot. Made me a better mixer for sure. I learned A LOT. It's just good to know that everyone has these experiences and from there I can better set my expectations. Revisions. Dear Lord, revisions. I think there is a lot to be said for choosing carefully who you work with, and managing expectations. I am not on the verge yet of giving up working with outside bands by any means. However, I don't blame anyone for wanting a change for the better. For me it's about being realistic and living in reality. Perspective and expectations. If I lose sight of those then I'm surely going to get swallowed up. Again, so glad to have this forum. Thank you @johnkenn
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Post by bluegrassdan on Aug 12, 2017 22:36:14 GMT -6
I either charge by the hour or do it for free. Anything in between and they are less likely to appreciate it.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Aug 12, 2017 22:52:27 GMT -6
Wow, this brings up some wacky and long forgotten memories. I dated this girl decades back for a little while who fancied herself a singer/songwriter. All she did was come up with a basic melody she'd sing to me that needed some help, and then thought she wrote all the music I created around that, including bridges and pre-choruses and musical hooks.
Our deal was she'd buy me the gear I wanted to make the recording, and I'd track and produce it for her. When I told her this was actually a collaboration and that we need to share songwriting credit, she broke into my apartment and stole all the gear, but she had the tracks I'd done. I threatened to sue, and she brought back half the gear. Needless to say, nothing ever came of it.
This was just a minor episode in the scheme of things, but things have changed, and I'm trying to sort it out myself.
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Post by johneppstein on Aug 12, 2017 23:09:00 GMT -6
Apparently I'm so bad that they wouldn't do that lol. They've been talking in circles. They asked me to roll off top end. Now they're saying my mixes don't have the warmth and crispness that the ones on my page do. Just turn your back, shrug your shoulders, and chalk it up to (even more) experience.
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Post by c0rtland on Aug 13, 2017 0:04:59 GMT -6
Somehow, I find something incredibly humorous about comparing contractors and musicians. And ironically, so MANY contractors ARE musicians. Kind of warps my brain even thinking about it. music is way less tangible than a kitchen. Maybe if we delivered our mixes to clients via gatefold 180 gram colored vinyl we'd have fewer clients not pay.
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Post by viciousbliss on Aug 13, 2017 2:52:38 GMT -6
This is a trend happening more and more with famous artists. There's been a few who have shredded Tom Werman, complaining how he didn't do a good job on their classic records. Think it was Nikki Sixx, Dee Snider, and maybe a guy from Quiet Riot. To me, Werman is a legend and those bands would never have succeeded if not for his production. I think the DAW is one of the worst things to happen to music. Sure, it makes a lot of things easier, but it's so sterile. I've tried every analog plugin under the sun not on a UAD platform and every old reverb and modulation effect and I just don't think it's all that possible to get a sound that guys like Werman crafted back then. Quite a few legendary producers that are still out there have ended up producing things that sound like the $40 an hour studio I rehearsed at made it. Bob Rock being the big one. Ron Nevison is another. I wouldn't hire those guys if someone gave me an unlimited budget if what I ended up with sounded like their current credits. Actually, I can't think of anyone I would hire based on albums that came out in the last 9 years. Out of what I've heard anyway. Maybe the team behind Foxes' All I Need is the only one I'd be inclined to work with as an artist. Looks like Spike Stent mixed it. Body Talk is about the only modern pop song I really think holds up well with stuff released in the 80s. But somehow I don't think using the model of Spike's console in NLS will get me very close to that sound lol
I have little knowledge of the Nashville scene or modern Country music. I know a lot of artists have jumped on that bandwagon. Plenty of non-country artists record in Nashville. Michael Wagener is there too, I think. Can't recall the last time he cranked out anything worthwhile. Ozzy's No More Tears? I'm also doubting Mutt Lange has been cranking out stuff on par with Hysteria or Back in Black production values using modern tools. Terry Date's modern work sucks compared to what he did decades ago. I'm sure a lot of this is the fault of the insecure artists who think they need the most clean and sterile recordings possible. A lot of em are preoccupied with making sure the listener hears every stupid note they play in pristine detail instead of whether the song has the right feel. Bands that have re-recorded or remixed 80s stuff have done a horrible job with it. Like the Megadeth remixes or Twister Sister's Still Hungry. More of these bigtime producers should have stood up to the clients instead of ruining their brands. Or I guess just gotten out like Tom Werman did.
It's very hard to stand out using modern stuff. Very hard not to sound sterile. When I hear something like Bruno Mars 24k, the vocals sound too home studio to me. It doesn't have the timelessness of something like Thriller and I think a large part of that is the production. Most of the big concert acts are bands that are pushing 60 or 70 years old and I think that's because there was a big quality over quantity approach which is like the inverse of today. I'd be surprised if even Taylor Swift retains her status 2 or 3 decades from now. Aren't more artists trying to do everything themselves too? I've heard samples of stuff like the new Quiet Riot and it sounds like someone in the band bought some plugins, read a few online posts, and mixed the album. But this has been a trend for a long time and I think a lot of that has to do with Pro Tools knocking down the barrier to entry. Record sales aren't there for a variety of reasons. #1 This isn't the 80s or 90s where the new music coming out was constantly breaking ground. Creativity has been stagnant. And again, a lot of that is due to a lack of artist development. #2 Way too many people recording and releasing things and #3 Customers with less money to spend. Stagnant incomes since the early days of Napster for a lot of people.
Client Expectations...I'd just tell them like it is. Too many people watching Graham Cochrane videos thinking they can make masterpieces with one cheap mic and Reaper with stock plugins. It's really not that simple and I think it can be detrimental to both plugin companies and people trying to learn to tell them just to use stock plugins. His video headlines definitely inflate people's expectations. When people new to recording think recording, they're going to associate the whole concept with his brand because he gets all the top search results. Especially since Brandon Drury and Recording Review are gone. Unless someone has actually tried to do this stuff themselves, they really have little idea how it works and what does what. When I first hired a guy, I had no idea what to expect. I just figured if he had Pro Tools that was a big deal and I'd probably get something that was kinda modern and semi-competent. That's not exactly what I wanted, but, considering it was a low rate guy, I didn't expect a lot. Not in the 3 hours or so we had. It was definitely a big improvement over what I did with newbies who bought stuff from Guitar Center. I've no idea what the guy used. Most of our production was done using our live gear, like my Digitech Vocalist Live 4. Still have not found a plugin that creates ultra-realistic vibrato on the fly like that thing does. The disc turned out too lethargic because those guys played the songs too slow. I sped it up in Audacity. Wish I could find the original disc or files and I could try something else. I had no expectation that I could go request revisions and all this stuff. My thinking was we got what we got during the time we paid for. The engineer we had wasn't famous and didn't have a console, so I didn't think we were gonna get album quality. Consoles are pictured in so many cd booklets, I figured they used them for a reason. Today people probably have no idea what a console is and you have tons of people posting ads on CL begging for work, even free clients, willing to do all sorts of revisions.
The only approach that I'm interested in is being the engineer I would want to hire and telling clients that that is what they are getting. It's like when people hire Steve Albini. He's got a sound and it is what it is. That's what he does. You don't hear about him changing around his approach for every client. CLA is like that too and I've read how he fights bands on changes. Supposedly artists were told not to even suggest anything to him at some point. Maybe if CLA or Albini was starting out today they'd get nowhere. The demand just might not be there. Of course, the client shouldn't think their garbage files are going to sound like a project a competent engineer recorded and mixed from scratch. A lot of people have talked up Pro Tools so much over the years that one would think it can fix anything. I've been sporadically working on a newbie guide for a while, but I doubt many perspective clients will actually end up reading it. Most just see an affordable rate and book it expecting super-human feats.
My prediction is that eventually we'll see computers that are affordable and are 10-20x more powerful than Threadripper with companies creating super-intelligent programs with AI that can do almost anything an artist wants. Like convolution production. Sample tones from an album and apply that to your guitars. Intelligent song-writing and mixing suggestions. When this happens a lot more jobs than audio engineer will be phased out by tech, so, I guess maybe we should look for types of work that will require the most complex AI? For now, I'd say try to record and mix your favorite well-known covers and see how well you can emulate the spirit of the original production. Someone will always want to hire someone who knows how to duplicate a beloved song's sound. I've always found it a bit of a puzzling experience to try and make someone's recorded tracks sound like something else.
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Post by bluegrassdan on Aug 13, 2017 5:31:05 GMT -6
Let me be the devil's advocate for a minute. I had a mix engineer one time who wouldn't turn down the dang reverb. He would send me a mix and ask for input. "Everything sounds great, but we need way less verb." Second mix, "Yeah man, sounds like the reverb is still the way it was before. Be sure to dial it back." Third mix, engineer says, "I know you said you want less reverb, but you hired me to put my stamp on this mix."
Me..."Turn down the $!&@/ reverb!!!"
Never worked with him again.
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Post by mrholmes on Aug 13, 2017 6:51:10 GMT -6
So - on this job board that I joined (took two months for them to "approve" me) I got two jobs - this one and one other...and I thought, shit - maybe this will be some great income...but HOLEE SHIT. This is misery lol. I feel for you guys that have been doing this for a living. So all this went on with this first one. So get a load of this. The second job was $500 to build tracks for this singer. She found me and asked to work together (she heard the demos I had posted.) So - awesome! She sends me the "song" and it's just her singing. Nothing but her voice. xI write her back and say - "Is there any music with this? Any melody other than the topline?" Are you wanting me to write the backing music? Of course she does. But no biggie - I'll do it - it wasn't hard. She sang in tune and to a click. I explained that this wasn't really a work for hire, but a collaboration and if we worked like this again, it would require more money. So anyway - I was smart. I tracked an electric guitar to her voice and sent it to her to see if she liked the direction and wanted to move forward. She "loved it!" So off I go tracking four guitars, Drums, Bass and B3...I wouldn't normally track B3, but the song was basically a rock song...like - there are only so many instruments that could fit the style. But hey - I'm smart - before I go any further (than the 5 hours I've already spent) I decided to send it to her to see if she wanted to move forward - after all, all this shit with the other morons had just happened. I send her a snippet mp3...Get her reply and she's not "peachy about it." She asks whether she should rewrite the melody so it's more modern. Then she links two Florida Georgia songs. No. I see where this is heading. I'm cutting my losses. I PM'd her and said it's not working and offered her upfront money back. Thus ends my career as an Internet Track Builder. John what do you expect? Its the internet 99% of the geeks you meet in it are just great at what they do in thier virtual live. Do yourself a favour and study a few FB profiles, you will fast get the impression that something is wrong with your live, and all the other lives are brillaint. The internet gives people a constant dopamine push, psychological science can proof it. Posting a video with singing. Posting BS cat pictures. Telling people that they produce a song because they just bought a DAW software (hopefully they buy it). The best contacts I make are still offline. You can see people from face to face, you can talk to them you can ask them if they like your stile of arrangging. Its a diffrent lwvel, there more than just facts in a PM. I need to see people in person, thier body language, thier attitude... the energy they spread in the room. Analog meeting is still something taht cant be repalced by digital. Special if its something like music, where we actually talk about EMOTIONS. I bet it would work out fine if she sat next to you in the studio. And you talk to her upfront about the soud she wants, modern, more oldscholl 70s etc.... It is also a matter of communication. Do local Jobs meet people before you do anything, have a clear contract on paper with them before the job starts. Waht is to pay, when and even if they do not like it after all, they need to pay you for your time and gear. Its a dam businnes and not Kindergarten.... I am selfemployed since 1998 and I love contracts because they keep a lot of touble away form me before anything starts. And yes people respect you more if you make this clear from the start.... Sorry that you dont like it, but I told you taht I get paid anyway, read the § in your contract... you pay me for time. Even if you have a contrat music is something totally subjective, you still can talk to your client and in the end the client meant something totally diffrent than what you had in mind. Producers who can do this, handle artists well that there is no conflict at all, its an ART in itself. I cant do it, I get nervous. Thats why I only do my own music at home. I am happy with it.
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Post by EmRR on Aug 13, 2017 10:30:28 GMT -6
Every time I get files from an outside source, it's always a total clusterfck organizationally speaking. That alone, you can't estimate or price a job. I've had sessions show up that took an entire day to parse and organize before mixing could start. That ain't free. I keep telling people who call, "20+ years in, I have no idea if your 6 song recording will take 3 hours or 4 months, it depends on your plans/expections/level of organization/need to redirect mid-project/etc. It's a discovery process, we can only define points at which we take stock and regroup or redirect". It's a lot like the weather.
I'm flashing to a client who was actually quite good, and spent a lot, happy in the end, who was irrationally photographic in their memory/vision of the expected outcome, and pointing out that the reality before us was different from the fantasy in their mind wasn't an acceptable statement. We had sessions for which they were billed in full in which no work was done at all, not even a playback; simply me going over every possible work list related to every song in search of something that could be done, and they were either unprepared or in total disagreement as to what should be done. I felt like I had taken the brown acid......that record should have cost 1/3rd of what it did, and probably would have cost even more without my management of it.
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Post by EmRR on Aug 13, 2017 10:34:00 GMT -6
It's not the worst thing I've ever heard, but it's definitely a turn chicken shit into chicken salad. I told them that considering what I was sent, their expectations were unreasonable. She told me "I was worried about someone mixing our stuff this cheap and I guess you get what you pay for." I told that b**** she got A LOT more than she paid for. They did get what they paid for in a sense, well before you got involved. They didn't pay anything, they didn't have anything to work with, yet still they have high expectations. Only so much we can do with a box of ego, usually nothing.
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Post by Johnkenn on Aug 13, 2017 10:55:35 GMT -6
im sure someone else can probably do better. Probably many people on this board. But we are talking about subjective opinions here. I would also venture to guess that my listening chain is a tad bit better than theirs.
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Post by ragan on Aug 13, 2017 10:56:39 GMT -6
Warmth and crispness. That kinda says it all. Like a nice piece of toast...
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Post by drbill on Aug 13, 2017 11:20:10 GMT -6
I mean, no offense meant to John or anyone else who picks up random internet business, but who chooses a random mixer off the internet with no human connection or base of reference?
Music is ALL ABOUT collaboration and like mindedness. Those kinds of relationships take months if not years to nurture and feel out. I can't find that on the internet unless I develop it over several projects, and even then, there's a physical disconnect.
Maybe that's the way of the future, but for me, it tells me far more about the people LOOKING for a mix engineer than their music does. They are ill connected with others of like vision, and are basically searching for someone to make them what they are not. That's a warning sign for me. If I know someone whose project is ready to mix, I can find them a dozen mix engineers in 5 minutes who are amazing. No need to pick someone with no personal reference who is off the internet. "Why" are they on the internet looking for collaborators would be my first question for them. Musical introductions are made by humans for humans and are nurtured over time.
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Post by Tbone81 on Aug 13, 2017 11:45:03 GMT -6
One thing I've just recently learned is that when artists like that keep asking for nonsensical things like "I want the guitars really bright" and the next day saying "man you made those guitars too bright" it's a mixture of insecurity and ignorance on their part.
They're insecure and afraid of giving up control of their baby, and it is Their baby. Theyre chasing an emotional response, not a particular sound, no matter what they say. However they're too ignorant to the language of music/recording/mixing to communicate what they want (partly because they don't really know what they want, they just want to "feel" it".
Some tricks I've just recently learned is to have only one contact person in the band. Refuse to take mix notes from Everyone, have them all be filtered through one contact person. Also, demand that they be given in writing/email. Sure they can talk to you about what they want, but they need to follow that with an email or else you don't work on it. Those two things will help force the band to figure out what they really want, and also serve as a record for you to reference later on.
Sometimes too you need to gently educate them on why they're recordings aren't going to sound like Alison Kraus for example.
Anyway, don't let it get you down. We've all been there. I'm just finishing a project where I dealt with the same thing and it was very stressful but lesson learned.
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Post by EmRR on Aug 13, 2017 12:08:00 GMT -6
I'm always amazed at the lack of shop-around. So many clients relate the horrible experiences they've had at other places, NONE of which make ANY sense (and I don't shit talk the other guy, just listen and look for solutions). People DON'T track me down to come see the studio and have a conversation, generally. When they do, they almost always book something. Most book the studio and I have to force some level of conversation, get them to come by ahead of time, etc. Some just walk in cold, and you can see them sorta freaking out about the difference between reality and whatever mental picture they've manufactured in their hermit cave. A whole lot of people just aren't any good at having conversations, or making plans, or accepting outcomes from that path. Maybe 4-6 artists in 20 years have come to talk to me while looking for a place, acknowledged they were searching and visiting multiple places, and only one of those booked multiple studios for demo sessions before deciding where to commit their entire (big) project.
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Post by Johnkenn on Aug 13, 2017 14:01:52 GMT -6
I mean, no offense meant to John or anyone else who picks up random internet business, but who chooses a random mixer off the internet with no human connection or base of reference? Music is ALL ABOUT collaboration and like mindedness. Those kinds of relationships take months if not years to nurture and feel out. I can't find that on the internet unless I develop it over several projects, and even then, there's a physical disconnect. Maybe that's the way of the future, but for me, it tells me far more about the people LOOKING for a mix engineer than their music does. They are ill connected with others of like vision, and are basically searching for someone to make them what they are not. That's a warning sign for me. If I know someone whose project is ready to mix, I can find them a dozen mix engineers in 5 minutes who are amazing. No need to pick someone with no personal reference who is off the internet. "Why" are they on the internet looking for collaborators would be my first question for them. Musical introductions are made by humans for humans and are nurtured over time. There are plenty of un-connected people around the world. Not everyone has made connections in the major music centers...and that's usually where you find the people that really know how to do this stuff. So, I generally think this is a good idea...just not sure I have the temperament for it.
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Post by Johnkenn on Aug 13, 2017 14:05:15 GMT -6
One thing I've just recently learned is that when artists like that keep asking for nonsensical things like "I want the guitars really bright" and the next day saying "man you made those guitars too bright" it's a mixture of insecurity and ignorance on their part. They're insecure and afraid of giving up control of their baby, and it is Their baby. Theyre chasing an emotional response, not a particular sound, no matter what they say. However they're too ignorant to the language of music/recording/mixing to communicate what they want (partly because they don't really know what they want, they just want to "feel" it". Some tricks I've just recently learned is to have only one contact person in the band. Refuse to take mix notes from Everyone, have them all be filtered through one contact person. Also, demand that they be given in writing/email. Sure they can talk to you about what they want, but they need to follow that with an email or else you don't work on it. Those two things will help force the band to figure out what they really want, and also serve as a record for you to reference later on. Sometimes too you need to gently educate them on why they're recordings aren't going to sound like Alison Kraus for example. Anyway, don't let it get you down. We've all been there. I'm just finishing a project where I dealt with the same thing and it was very stressful but lesson learned. That's totally what this situation was. They were contradicting themselves...and it's really things that could be solved in the real world. Like - you come over and sign off on a mix. There's this endless tweaking in this realm. If I DO decide to do this stuff again, I won't be nearly as giving. Especially at this price. You get what you get and you don't throw a fit.
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 14,921
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Post by ericn on Aug 13, 2017 18:47:37 GMT -6
The customer is always right but it sucks to have somebody who has no idea what they want be right. I would always submit 2 mixes 1. The way they said they wanted it. 2. My way. Neither labeled you would be shocked how often my way was what they were looking for😎
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