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Post by M57 on Aug 7, 2017 19:41:58 GMT -6
I've decided to start a new thread in hopes that I'll get more feedback on this. I just picked up the Great River MP-500NV and the A Designs P1 hoping one of them might be the magical match for the Blackspade UM-4X and my voice. I've been trying out different gain settings for each pre-amp and to keep things easy have posted the one I like best from each pre-amp. They're quite different, and there are times when I prefer one over the other, but I think I have my favorite. Of course, these are different takes, but I did my best to level match by phrase, favoring my least favorite when in doubt so as to offset my personal bias. Pay no attention to the crappy piano recording. It's a peice I'm currently working on, the piano was the first track and it needs to be re-recorded any. All vocal tracks: UM-4X -> Pre-amp -> WA-2A (~3 db of compression) Great River MP-500NV (with load engaged) soundcloud.com/m57/end-of-the-skyline-mp-500nv/s-Dq33aA Designs P1 (no pad) soundcloud.com/m57/end-of-the-skyline-p1/s-zuKm3There's only high-pass on the EQ, no de-essing, and 1 or 2 db of additional compression and a little reverb. Here's the original/current track with the Dizengoff D4, which is EQ'd to taste.soundcloud.com/m57/the-end-of-the-skylineUPDATE: The "public" link above is now a comped version using the best of both preamps, + a tiny bit of de-essing.
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Post by notneeson on Aug 7, 2017 19:43:56 GMT -6
What are you recording?
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Post by M57 on Aug 7, 2017 19:46:55 GMT -6
My voice. Sorry if that wasn't clear. I'll update the lead post.
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Post by notneeson on Aug 7, 2017 21:51:26 GMT -6
My voice. Sorry if that wasn't clear. I'll update the lead post. So my personal experience is that, once you have a well matched mic for a voice, the sound of the pre is kind of academic assuming what you have is of good quality. Maybe what you need is a different mic?
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Post by winetree on Aug 7, 2017 22:56:10 GMT -6
+1 That mic is very sibilant and grainy sounding. Start with a mic for your voice.
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Post by ChaseUTB on Aug 8, 2017 2:27:11 GMT -6
What mic do you have a black spade um17? Um17r or um17b? No model as the one you list ... feel the mic isn't the best for what you are trying to do ... preamps are fine... the great river of gsinsrged em towards more color ( more gain input less output ) that may take away some of the thin ness and kinda harsh grainy ness ... hope this helps 🤠
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Post by M57 on Aug 8, 2017 3:44:59 GMT -6
What mic do you have a black spade um17? Um17r or um17b? No model as the one you list ... feel the mic isn't the best for what you are trying to do ... preamps are fine... the great river of gsinsrged em towards more color ( more gain input less output ) that may take away some of the thin ness and kinda harsh grainy ness ... hope this helps 🤠 The mic is a brand new model - almost impossible to find on the net.. digitalaudioservice.de/bsa-um4x.htmlI had been using a UM-17b, and I liked it - it was quite the improvement over other mics I've used - but it was a tad too "thin." The folks at Blackspade let me "upgrade it" for a few extra dollars. They sent me what turned out to be a prototype for the the UM-4X. One of the differences is that the 4X is fixed bias - there were a couple other mods/options as well. Did you also listen to the current/public recording with the D4?
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Post by M57 on Aug 8, 2017 3:48:26 GMT -6
+1 That mic is very sibilant and grainy sounding. Start with a mic for your voice.For the record, I have a very sibilant voice. It's been an issue with EVERY mic I've ever sung into. For the record, I have a very sibilant voice. It's been an issue with EVERY mic I've ever sung into. I actually feel like this mic gives me the most natural sounding esses. Mind you, I haven't used a de-esser yet. I was also pretty much singing directly into the mic.
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Post by M57 on Aug 8, 2017 3:49:24 GMT -6
winetree thinks the mic sounds grainy. Do others agree?
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Post by jakeharris on Aug 8, 2017 6:22:43 GMT -6
Can you remove the Warm LA2A and all the processing?
Just a vocal through the mic and pre-amps, no piano, no eq, and no reverb.
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Post by M57 on Aug 8, 2017 6:37:32 GMT -6
Can you remove the Warm LA2A and all the processing? Just a vocal through the mic and pre-amps, no piano, no eq, and no reverb. Yes, but that wouldn't be very real world - I mean, it's all about context, right? Or are you just trying to be more scientifically objective about the mic or the preamps? I'd have to re-record of course because the WA-2A is in the chain.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Aug 8, 2017 7:38:43 GMT -6
Can you remove the Warm LA2A and all the processing? Just a vocal through the mic and pre-amps, no piano, no eq, and no reverb. Yes, but that wouldn't be very real world - I mean, it's all about context, right? Or are you just trying to be more scientifically objective about the mic or the preamps? I'd have to re-record of course because the WA-2A is in the chain. We don't care about real world we want to hear what the mic and the pre are doing by themselves!
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Post by adamjbrass on Aug 8, 2017 7:43:34 GMT -6
P1 into the Warm sounds nice I don't think the mic sounds grainy
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Post by Johnkenn on Aug 8, 2017 7:53:08 GMT -6
Listening in the car - I don't think it sounds grainy either. Little sibilant, but nothing a deesser couldn't fix. I would say I liked the P1 better - not what I expected. I almost felt like it had more bottom and less strident mids.
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Post by Johnkenn on Aug 8, 2017 7:53:48 GMT -6
Yes, but that wouldn't be very real world - I mean, it's all about context, right? Or are you just trying to be more scientifically objective about the mic or the preamps? I'd have to re-record of course because the WA-2A is in the chain. We don't care about real world we want to hear what the mic and the pre are doing by themselves! Doh. But isn't the real world what we do all of this stuff for?
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Aug 8, 2017 8:00:14 GMT -6
We don't care about real world we want to hear what the mic and the pre are doing by themselves! Doh. But isn't the real world what we do all of this stuff for? Yeah but if you want to know what the basics are doing you got to cut it down to the basics!
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Post by jakeharris on Aug 8, 2017 8:12:24 GMT -6
Can you remove the Warm LA2A and all the processing? Just a vocal through the mic and pre-amps, no piano, no eq, and no reverb. Yes, but that wouldn't be very real world - I mean, it's all about context, right? Or are you just trying to be more scientifically objective about the mic or the preamps? I'd have to re-record of course because the WA-2A is in the chain. Yes, for more objectivity. If you've already made some sound choices it becomes more subjective. The piano recording is also a bit aggressive; which mics did you use for that? But I don't hear any graininess in your vocal either. You already know this too, but if you have a slightly sibilant voice, for best results I wouldn't sing straight into the mic.
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Post by Johnkenn on Aug 8, 2017 8:14:26 GMT -6
I get it...just don't want to get so in the weeds that we forget it's the end result that matters. But maybe that's understood and I'm being kinda douchie lol
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Post by adamjbrass on Aug 8, 2017 8:18:41 GMT -6
Context is king!
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Post by jakeharris on Aug 8, 2017 8:22:08 GMT -6
Don't re-record just for me though! Time is precious, use it to make music.
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Post by Tommy Harron on Aug 8, 2017 8:28:40 GMT -6
I like both the P1 and the original. The P1 sounds a bit faster and more flat. The original seems to be a bit slower on the transients and rounder in the mids.
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Post by M57 on Aug 8, 2017 8:59:59 GMT -6
The piano recording is also a bit aggressive; which mics did you use for that? But I don't hear any graininess in your vocal either. You already know this too, but if you have a slightly sibilant voice, for best results I wouldn't sing straight into the mic. Yeah - I'm totally revisiting the way I'll be recording the piano - stay tuned.. I agree the piano is strident. I've tried a bunch of things. XY NT-5s, all mics across the strings, mics under/over, you name it. I'm coming to realize that there there are also some room-related phase issues as well. It's not the piano. I tune it myself and all the unison strings are within a few cents of each other, I have it stretched just the way I like it. It really is a fantastic sounding piano. The only thing I hate about it is the pedal noise - but I've been getting better and better at playing around that by never pushing it all the way down, etc. Anyway, For that recording I had a Rode NT-5 right in front of me, the UM-4X in the center of the room, and a Warbler MKID across the strings toward the back of the grand. As for the sibilance, I normally sing across the mic, but for this first run I sang straight into the Blackspade purposely (from about 16"). I want to know exactly how it deals with esses. Honestly, I'm impressed because I am a walking ESS box, and I think with a little mic technique and a tiny bit of de-essing, I'm going to be thrilled. I'm not sure if this is possible, but I actually think the esses sound good, especially with the P1, which was kind of a shock to me because the Great River is the darker pre-amp.
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Post by M57 on Aug 8, 2017 9:06:53 GMT -6
We don't care about real world we want to hear what the mic and the pre are doing by themselves! Yeah, I know - What's the point of hanging here if you can't get exactly what you want?
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Post by jakeharris on Aug 8, 2017 9:27:23 GMT -6
Yeah - I'm totally revisiting the way I'll be recording the piano - stay tuned.. I agree the piano is strident. I've tried a bunch of things. XY NT-5s, all mics across the strings, mics under/over, you name it. I'm coming to realize that there there are also some room-related phase issues as well. It's not the piano. I tune it myself and all the unison strings are within a few cents of each other, I have it stretched just the way I like it. It really is a fantastic sounding piano. The only thing I hate about it is the pedal noise - but I've been getting better and better at playing around that by never pushing it all the way down, etc. Anyway, For that recording I had a Rode NT-5 right in front of me, the UM-4X in the center of the room, and a Warbler MKID across the strings toward the back of the grand. As for the sibilance, I normally sing across the mic, but for this first run I sang straight into the Blackspade purposely (from about 16"). I want to know exactly how it deals with esses. Honestly, I'm impressed because I am a walking ESS box, and I think with a little mic technique and a tiny bit of de-essing, I'm going to be thrilled. I'm not sure if this is possible, but I actually think the esses sound good, especially with the P1, which was kind of a shock to me because the Great River is the darker pre-amp. Thanks for info! The GR might be the safer choice if you're the walking talking ess box you say you are – or maybe it's that instantly recognisable sound i like a lot... But if you can work with a more open preamp by managing any sibilance, I'd opt for the livelier P1. As far as colours in a toolbox go, both are great.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Aug 8, 2017 9:28:41 GMT -6
I get it...just don't want to get so in the weeds that we forget it's the end result that matters. But maybe that's understood and I'm being kinda douchie lol Nah You songwriter 1st, producer 2nd AE 3rd! Me AE 1st, Producer 2nd , Well I do have some lyric credits 😎 We all want to get to the same place just different roads! But from experience, the closer we get to bare ass naked the easier it is to find the problem, you take all the lipstick off the surer you are it's a pig no matter how much whiskey you have in you!
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