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Post by ragan on Aug 9, 2017 5:31:58 GMT -6
B sounds better to me in this two source mix. You said you wanted to tame your mids more, then B. If you gave us another recording with a more dense rocking mix with different material that would be interesting. A - might just be better in that mix. They both sound good to me used in different contexts. Not to detract, but the Highland Dynamics BG-2 comp is kick ass on vox. I think you can get one for around the same price as the STA, and they are located out on the West Coast. I would love to get your opinion on that one next to the STA and Warm. Check it out. Just a thought...sorry. That's why I don't post much on these kinds of threads...lol. You are splitting hairs and I add other variables...like we don't have enough variables already, lol. Btw...I didn't read much in this thread before listening to the second set of files. Now I will go back and read this thread. You've used the BG2? I'm actually pretty interested in it, given what I'm reading.
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Post by guitfiddler on Aug 9, 2017 15:28:05 GMT -6
I would never suggest something I haven't used. Randge turned me onto it.
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Post by ragan on Aug 9, 2017 15:51:36 GMT -6
I would never suggest something I haven't used. Randge turned me onto it. She's a beaut Oh cool. Excellent. I was listening to this VK comparison this morning (below). They all sound nice of course, but coming right after the RS124, I felt like the BG2 was a little more high mid/low high forward? I've no doubt it's amazing, that's just something I'm looking to tame rather than accentuate. It's one piece of audio in one track of course but it's a pretty straightforward comparison that shows the gist of what each box is doing. I was pretty impressed with the RS124 here. One thing I notice with the STA I've got here and the other STA clips I've been listening to is it has a high end sheen that can come across as sibilant sometimes. Probably not on a lot of voices but I'm already pretty sibilant. One thing I'll miss if/when I return the STA is acoustic guitars. Man does it sound good there.
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Post by guitfiddler on Aug 9, 2017 16:13:42 GMT -6
I didn't pay much attention to that video because they didn't really show much of what a box can do. When I was at Randy's studio he was using the BG2 on main vox and the rs124's on background. We shot out a few while tweaking in a SR251 and I really liked what the BG2 was doing. I guess I can watch the video again, but that BG2 didn't sound anything like mine. It can have character or be clean, and you can use it as a tone box by turning the compression off Attachment Deletedhope you can read this...gives you some more info. You won't know until you try it. If you could get a demo that would be cool and share it here like the wa2a and the STA.
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Post by indiehouse on Aug 9, 2017 18:56:08 GMT -6
I would never suggest something I haven't used. Randge turned me onto it. She's a beaut Oh cool. Excellent. I was listening to this VK comparison this morning (below). They all sound nice of course, but coming right after the RS124, I felt like the BG2 was a little more high mid/low high forward? I've no doubt it's amazing, that's just something I'm looking to tame rather than accentuate. It's one piece of audio in one track of course but it's a pretty straightforward comparison that shows the gist of what each box is doing. I was pretty impressed with the RS124 here. One thing I notice with the STA I've got here and the other STA clips I've been listening to is it has a high end sheen that can come across as sibilant sometimes. Probably not on a lot of voices but I'm already pretty sibilant. One thing I'll miss if/when I return the STA is acoustic guitars. Man does it sound good there. I continue to be impressed with my RS124. Worth a demo.
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Post by popmann on Aug 9, 2017 20:07:13 GMT -6
For the record, I think you're making a mistake. 1&b were barely acceptable and unacceptable respectively, where with the same everything else INCLUDING engineer, 2&a were "better than average" vocal tracks, tonally.
If if you can't justify the STA $$, return the Warm, save that money, too. I can do better than the Warm with an uncompressed (during tracking) vocal with the compressor built into the DAW. But give me 1 or B to mix and I'm gonna have to work hard and try out a million plugs to try to band aid that....old stock tubes are subtle in the grand scheme.
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Post by M57 on Aug 9, 2017 20:18:04 GMT -6
I can do better than the Warm with an uncompressed (during tracking) vocal with the compressor built into the DAW. I like tracking with the Warm, but which ITB comps do you prefer and think beat out the Warm?
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Post by ragan on Aug 9, 2017 21:24:54 GMT -6
For the record, I think you're making a mistake. 1&b were barely acceptable and unacceptable respectively, where with the same everything else INCLUDING engineer, 2&a were "better than average" vocal tracks, tonally. If if you can't justify the STA $$, return the Warm, save that money, too. I can do better than the Warm with an uncompressed (during tracking) vocal with the compressor built into the DAW. But give me 1 or B to mix and I'm gonna have to work hard and try out a million plugs to try to band aid that....old stock tubes are subtle in the grand scheme. Well around half the engineers I sent the blind files to privately preferred the WA-2a and what, maybe half-ish here did too? But you are a man of viewpoint certainty in the extreme and I solicited and appreciate the input. Couple notes from my perspective: your "stock" DAW compressor may produce a result that you like better, but it will not be objectively better in my opinion. I've spend an embarrassing amount of time ABing plugs to hardware and that's my view as it stands now. Also, without having the dry file, it's hard to say what you could or couldn't do with other processing. Last, the NOS tubes may make a subtle difference, they may make a significant one. We'll see. I've spent good money on good NOS tubes and had it make really marginal difference and, other times in other circuits/situations, had it be really substantive change. But it's not STA or WA or nothing. I rented a couple pieces today and I may order an RS124 and a BG2 (with return options). I'm interested in hearing other options and I'll be posting more clips. I may chuckle or even eye roll at some of your Popmann Proclamations sometimes but I do genuinely appreciate the candid perspective.
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Post by popmann on Aug 9, 2017 22:45:18 GMT -6
But you are a man of viewpoint certainty in the extreme and I solicited and appreciate the input. You did ask. There's nothing "objectively better" in such pursuits....because one man's treasure and all... M57, I guess my opinion is based around the Cubase and LPX compressor....but, there's have been, over the years all kinds of competent third party plugs if your DAW's is lacking. Full control. Latent (looking ahead in the buffer)....things like defeatable saturation or side chain EQs are a bonus that make it even more flexible.
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Post by ragan on Aug 9, 2017 23:20:34 GMT -6
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2017 23:40:38 GMT -6
Actually edit LOL!.. Sorry.! I just listened to your examples, so I'm updating. I'm going to agree with popmann after all, the first one sounded restrained yet solid / like a polished record.. All it needed is some post EQ to bring it back into the fold whereas the second one started to pull some nasty upper frequencies from your voice which if you EQ it will just either make it sound dull or odd. I have a WA76 and I believe it's better than the plugs? I can't remember for the past six months I've been trying to stick it to the man by avoiding UA's excessively expensive dongle.. I'm going to test out my WA76 when I get my new board, if it sounds like that I'm going to throw it in the bin.. (Sorry Ragan ..
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Post by ragan on Aug 10, 2017 0:03:17 GMT -6
Actually edit LOL!.. Sorry.! I just listened to your examples, so I'm updating. I'm going to agree with popmann after all, the first one sounded restrained yet solid / like a polished record.. All it needed is some post EQ to bring it back into the fold whereas the second one started to pull some nasty upper frequencies from your voice which if you EQ it will just either make it sound dull or odd. I have a WA76 and I believe it's better than the plugs? I can't remember for the past six months I've been trying to stick it to the man by avoiding UA's excessively expensive dongle.. I'm going to test out my WA76 when I get my new board, if it sounds like that I'm going to throw it in the bin.. (Sorry Ragan .. Heh. Don't worry about it, but just for the record, it's a WA-2a I was using there, not a WA76.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2017 0:41:28 GMT -6
Actually edit LOL!.. Sorry.! I just listened to your examples, so I'm updating. I'm going to agree with popmann after all, the first one sounded restrained yet solid / like a polished record.. All it needed is some post EQ to bring it back into the fold whereas the second one started to pull some nasty upper frequencies from your voice which if you EQ it will just either make it sound dull or odd. I have a WA76 and I believe it's better than the plugs? I can't remember for the past six months I've been trying to stick it to the man by avoiding UA's excessively expensive dongle.. I'm going to test out my WA76 when I get my new board, if it sounds like that I'm going to throw it in the bin.. (Sorry Ragan .. Heh. Don't worry about it, but just for the record, it's a WA-2a I was using there, not a WA76. Have two of those too, just got an Audient ID as I want other stuff and if I can trade it in I might do.. Will post clips vs. stock compressor soon . The first one does sound really good though so kudos.!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2017 2:18:31 GMT -6
Don't worry I won't hijack this thread and I'll remove these in a little bit, here's the WA76 and stock compressors in Samplitude.. Nothing but compression (obviously) and a HPF @ 100Hz. Which one do you prefer and which one is the WA2A? I slung it together but there are for me at least differences. Very curious..!
P.S is it me or does soundcloud really feck with the sound?
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Post by donr on Aug 10, 2017 9:26:53 GMT -6
I liked "C." Sounded musical, controlled and had no audible faults. Didn't compare to the others tho.
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Post by ragan on Aug 10, 2017 9:35:24 GMT -6
Don't worry I won't hijack this thread and I'll remove these in a little bit, here's the WA76 and stock compressors in Samplitude.. Nothing but compression (obviously) and a HPF @ 100Hz. Which one do you prefer and which one is the WA2A? I slung it together but there are for me at least differences. Very curious..! https%3A//soundcloud.com/mixalliance/testbhttps%3A//soundcloud.com/mixalliance/testaP.S is it me or does soundcloud really feck with the sound? Soundcloud is pretty rough. I haven't listened yet but you keep using WA76 and WA-2a interchangeably so I keep being confused.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Aug 10, 2017 10:32:17 GMT -6
Shadow, I thought the vocal in test B was smaller. I'd guess test A is the WA2A.
I liked the video. I enjoy shootouts, and don't buy into the common criticism's of these things. I can plainly hear differences and easily chose my preference. I've bought mics this way and found them to be exactly as I'd heard them to be.
After watching that video, Someone please tell Santa that I've been a good boy and ask him to bring me the Tube-Tech CL1B please. If he's out of stock, the Chandler will do nicely.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Aug 10, 2017 10:51:23 GMT -6
Don't worry I won't hijack this thread and I'll remove these in a little bit, here's the WA76 and stock compressors in Samplitude.. Nothing but compression (obviously) and a HPF @ 100Hz. Which one do you prefer and which one is the WA2A? I slung it together but there are for me at least differences. Very curious..! A sounds too fat, but better than B. B has a bit of grit that I'm not digging. I'd stick with A and eq it a bit to fit the mix better.
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Post by M57 on Aug 10, 2017 11:02:29 GMT -6
Don't worry I won't hijack this thread and I'll remove these in a little bit, here's the WA76 and stock compressors in Samplitude.. Nothing but compression (obviously) and a HPF @ 100Hz. Which one do you prefer and which one is the WA2A? I slung it together but there are for me at least differences. Very curious..! P.S is it me or does soundcloud really feck with the sound? Compared to A, B (the top one) sounds muddy ..and a bit bloated in the 200hz range? maybe even constricted up high. If that's the WA76, I've gotta get rid of mine. To be fair, B sounds like it has more compression going on. SoundCloud is fickle - sometimes it ruins stuff - sometimes it doesn't. It's the only way I share my music so I always listen after posting just to make sure. This is a disturbing concept, but sometimes I wish I could mix through a SC plugin just to see how it's going to sound in the real fake world.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2017 11:48:12 GMT -6
This is a disturbing concept, but sometimes I wish I could mix through a SC plugin just to see how it's going to sound in the real fake world. That's hysterical and genius all at the same time!
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Post by Martin John Butler on Aug 10, 2017 12:00:54 GMT -6
I believe there's an app for that, but it's expensive. Around 4 years ago at AES, there was a guy who developed a way to audition every codec format there was, instantly. You could hear how your track would sound most anywhere. It was $400 though, so I passed. For a pro who needs that function, it would be really cool though.
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Post by M57 on Aug 10, 2017 12:03:14 GMT -6
I believe there's an app for that, but it's expensive. Around 4 years ago at AES, there was a guy who developed a way to audition every codec format there was, instantly. You could hear how your track would sound most anywhere. It was $400 though, so I passed. For a pro who needs that function, it would be really cool though. OK, so not genius, but still disturbing.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2017 12:36:05 GMT -6
We do have some golden ears here.. ragan the clips I posted is a WA2A vs. a "vintage" lol! Samplitude stock compressor. I'll wait for your input and then reveal / remove..
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Post by ragan on Aug 10, 2017 12:43:39 GMT -6
We do have some golden ears here.. ragan the clips I posted is a WA2A vs. a "vintage" lol! Samplitude stock compressor. I'll wait for your input and then reveal / remove.. Ok gotcha. Your post says: "Don't worry I won't hijack this thread and I'll remove these in a little bit, here's the WA76 and stock compressors in Samplitude.. Nothing but compression (obviously) and a HPF @ 100Hz. Which one do you prefer and which one is the WA2A? I slung it together but there are for me at least differences. Very curious..!" First calling it the WA76 and then you mention guessing which one is the WA-2a so that's why I wasn't sure what was what.
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Post by ChaseUTB on Aug 10, 2017 13:07:51 GMT -6
After comparing both warm files to the new file I still prefer C over B. The b sibilance is enhanced due to some mids being subdued and can work but may be too much and I know you are trying to combat that.. C almost sounds smiley faces to me compared to B but it almost even the compression it and fits. Very balanced .. B had more low mid more full voiced and I am digging that for this. I think C seems more like a tube tech CL1B where more than -3db of GR starts to thin the bottom or carve the bottom away but sometimes it is the right thing. .
Also you have more experience with the Warm and your voice so it seems you know what to go for compression wise however C compressor circuit is smoother than File B even though file B is compressed really well, the circuit is making it a little edgy but could be perfect for a busy rock song.
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