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Post by jazznoise on Aug 20, 2017 6:20:09 GMT -6
My shitty 600 facebook like band played 25 shows last year playing all our own original music and we got paid every time and that's in a country of 4.5 million where everyone and yr mom is in a band and there's only a handful of venues per city. So my premise is this: youth culture is still there and can still be engaged with meaningfully, but you can't dictate to it.
If you're into independant/punk music, the community has maintained the same mechanics since the 80's and plenty of people are organizing shows and trying to give each other an honest chance at seeing the word. The world has changed and you're less likely to be both a rock band and a serious commercial success than in the last 30 years. The 00's 'landfill indie' craze in the UK is something I blame for that, as well as the post-punk revival stuff that came out of the US. What did become viable was the dance-punk stuff, like Bob alluded to and bands like Bloc Party, LCD Soundsystem, YeahYeahYeahs. However in terms of independent music the stream of music has been unwavering - while that stuff came out bands like Arab Rader, Lightning Bolt, The Locust were all doing their thing and also touring. The Yeah Yeah Yeahs actually got booked for a show in my town of 150,000 before they got big. Then they blew up in size, still agreed to play and the show was rammed to the rafters.
If you're in Hip Hop in Ireland, it's a good time to be doing it. Dance music was the same 10 years, but in general when communities rely on others the music falls apart as soon as the accountant tells them the manager to stop booking these dorks and that's what happened. The problem I think you're all trying to address is that 'real' music fans are often broke weirdos, and tickets are the easiest sell for them. Then t-shirts and records. Very often the bar doesn't make much from those guys. When the kids take drugs and don't buy drinks the bar doesn't want anything to do with them. You need that young professional or older music fan crowd to pay the bills for the bar, but they're also the worst for not buying merch and they often hate good music and just want to hear old covers.
We started organizing shows in town and the quality of music coming out is amazing, there must be half a dozen genuinely good bands in just my town and we're meeting and hearing about loads of great local artists all the time. I'm genuinely enthused by new Irish music, but the press would give you the idea that all is happening is uke's and bad falsetto singer-songwriter trash, ironic white rappers and bed-wetter indie. I think it's coming around again in many ways, and certainly here it feels like a good time to be making music in a band.
Lots of people bemoan the internet's democratization of music. I think they're dead wrong, and I'm not said if no one ever gets to be the next Michael Jackson. That's a hideous paradigm and it has nothing to do with music. It is far less financially punishing to be a kid in a band then it was 20 years and that's an objectively good thing. Most of my favorite bands had a job for several of their first albums, if not the entire way. Do these bands have money to give audio professionals? Not really. Is that their problem? No, not really. Are they on less money than their peers were historically? I don't think so.
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Post by EmRR on Aug 20, 2017 6:59:13 GMT -6
So how do we flip this race to the bottom? I'd say by creating venues high school kids can attend and perform in. Bob - you're pre-supposing that high school kids would even WANT to do that. From what I've seen, for the most part, they don't. Maybe someday that will change. They haven't been able to know they might want to do that, or heard it from anyone at all since the drinking age went up and locked them out of the venues, what, 32-33 years ago?
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Post by Guitar on Aug 20, 2017 8:18:05 GMT -6
Jazznoise, some great terminology there, made me laugh.
One thing I have noticed is geographical location seems to be significant. Scenes go up and down, burgeon, shrink, die or transform. Then pop up somewhere else.
I was lucky enough to be in some hot music towns in the early 2000s from Durham, NC to the northwest of Florida. Really I couldn't have been more fortunate starting out.
In the last decade I have been in the DC Metro area (Northern Virginia) and more recently, Asheville, NC.
Oddly enough, I hated NOVA, despised living there, but the music seemed to be much more happening. At least, for the genres that I prefer.
Asheville is touted as a "music town" but to me it's mostly menu music as someone said earlier. A lot of acoustic guitars. Not as many big acts from out of town, either. You would think being surrounded by working musicians would be great, but I find it to be a major distraction. I have enjoyed the exposure to synthesizers, and the occasional big name performer. In the flop house parties and warehouse gigs I have sometimes been exposed to genres I wasn't even aware of. That's always been the best stuff to me. "Broke weirdos," couldn't have said it any better. Ironically, the more mainstream stuff here is generally really conventional and safe sounding. Boring. Bored.
The quality of life here is really, really good, so there is a trade off.
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Post by swurveman on Aug 20, 2017 9:21:08 GMT -6
Lots of people bemoan the internet's democratization of music. I think they're dead wrong, and I'm not said if no one ever gets to be the next Michael Jackson. That's a hideous paradigm and it has nothing to do with music. I'm trying to understand your point here. Having grown up listening to Michael Jackson from his Motown days to his solo career, I think he made marvelous music through the studio/label system and evolved with the times setting new/different standards of excellence. What's so hideous about that?
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Post by EmRR on Aug 20, 2017 10:37:20 GMT -6
Asheville is touted as a "music town" but to me it's mostly menu music as someone said earlier. A lot of acoustic guitars. Not as many big acts from out of town, either. You would think being surrounded by working musicians would be great, but I find it to be a major distraction. I have enjoyed the exposure to synthesizers, and the occasional big name performer. In the flop house parties and warehouse gigs I have sometimes been exposed to genres I wasn't even aware of. That's always been the best stuff to me. "Broke weirdos," couldn't have said it any better. Ironically, the more mainstream stuff here is generally really conventional and safe sounding. Boring. Bored. My experience of making a few records in Asheville has made me think of it as a black hole of sorts. Yeah, you can go out every night and see 4-5 bands, and NOT see another 15 that you didn't know about. It starts to look like the same stuff and same people pretty quickly, though. It's a long haul to another town for anything different. There's so many local acts, there's no room for, or interest in, anyone from outside Asheville unless they are established and well known. You're in Asheville, or you're not, there's very little grey area.
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Aug 20, 2017 11:37:38 GMT -6
Back in the '60s-'70s we'd be talking about some artist's latest record and not recording gear. On the bright side, there has been a quiet revolution in recording live shows and some kids will probably pull the rug from under old pfhart overdubbed music. I can't wait!
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Post by jazznoise on Aug 20, 2017 12:13:37 GMT -6
Lots of people bemoan the internet's democratization of music. I think they're dead wrong, and I'm not said if no one ever gets to be the next Michael Jackson. That's a hideous paradigm and it has nothing to do with music. I'm trying to understand your point here. Having grown up listening to Michael Jackson from his Motown days to his solo career, I think he made marvelous music through the studio/label system and evolved with the times setting new/different standards of excellence. What's so hideous about that? The abuse, the drugs, the mental illness, his death. The big star set up for the big fall. Showbiz isn't good for music.
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Aug 20, 2017 12:45:31 GMT -6
Michael is far from the only one using drugs to get him from gig to gig. People don't really understand why artists used drugs. I thankfully managed to keep away from them.
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Post by johneppstein on Aug 20, 2017 14:58:37 GMT -6
But they're just not interested anymore. Music is passe for the vast majority of HS kids. For those who it is NOT passe, they just want to jump straight into making records. One of their fathers will pop for a GC "studio" for them. Well, something Bob O observed before (elsewhere, if not here), is that we can place the credit for that fimly at the footsteps of Good Ole Ronnie Ray-gun, who defunded music and other arts in the public schools. Since then youthful participation in live music performance has been on a steady, and alarmingly steep, downward slope. We need publically funded music programs in the schools again, starting at graders 1-6 and continuing through high school. When I was in grade school in Oklahoma we had a daily music period.The used to pass out autoharps so that kids could play along without really knowing how to play an instrument, and kids who played piano or guitar were encouraged to play in front of the class if they were any good. There was a piano in every classroom and teachers would lead the kids in singalongs (out of a rather "quaint" songbook with a few songs that would definitely not be PC these days.) This started in first grade. Further on, schools used to give young bands numerous opportunities to perform for their peers. Do they even do anything like that at all anymore?
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Post by johneppstein on Aug 20, 2017 15:03:21 GMT -6
Interesting thread to read. Quite a few left turns here and there but interesting. I'm thirty and probably on the older side of the millennial bracket, but a millennial nonetheless. I remember a childhood with not much more than MS-DOS - what appeared to be a glorified, more temperamental typewriter. And then I remember the days of that horrid dial-up sound, which sounded like the Alien was raping Dalek through an intercom. And I remember waiting up late nights in my room watching a white bar fill up to a blue bar telling me my song download had finished. While pirating the shit out of classic discographies, I can’t forget how genuinely excited and grateful I was every time that download bar said 100%. I burned CDs like a madman so I could go to school the next morning and give my friends a copy in the sheer hopes that they'd feel something of what I felt. And because downloads and leaks were still quite inefficient, I still spent every cent I had on new and old records, books and films and eventually live shows. And I also religiously combed through interviews with my favorite artists hoping they'd name drop a record or two that they liked. What I just described really is no different than anyone who is a lifer with this stuff. And I believe that any anxiety which exists around that incredible feeling - the feeling of being moved by art - is missing the point altogether. It’s not going away. It’s eternal. The technology is what always changes. More people seem to get hurt with each passing change. Yes, it’s true that comedians, chefs, youtube personae have all achieved a higher station than before. Music shares space with a ton of things - including gear lust! And there are a lot of distractions…A ton. So much that eats away at the self-discipline of even the most well-intentioned person of high integrity. It’s also true that a great deal of an artist’s development is his or her personal responsibility, compared to an era where a producer and a team of writers acted as a filter. The same goes for recording studios. If you want people coming through the door, you have to cultivate an experience level, an aesthetic and a musical vocabulary that is irreplaceable. Buying a pair of 1176s and a U87 means jack. The guys I assist under are working regularly because they’ve cultivated a number of skillsets. They’re good at making a joke at the right time. They’re good at making it feel like a record when the artist walks back in from the live room. They’re good at staying on top of which module is acting up in the console. They’re good at recognizing the holes in the synth collection and making a measured purchase that makes sense and adds value to the studio. They’re good at realizing that the upper register of the chorus is a little lacking in impact and may need a counterpoint two-octaves up from the vocal melody. They’re good at recognizing that the internet in the lounge is kind of shitty and we need a new router. Most of all, they know the difference between something that’s alright and something that’s “Wow!” They have conviction about that feeling and will go to bat for their convictions. Are they rich? No, but they’re starting to make more money in one of the most expensive cities in the world. And they pay it forward and are very forthcoming with the next generation of engineers and artists. No one can hear it and do it like they do it, but the attention to detail, the curiosity, the relentlessness - these things are admirable and make you want to be that good. I thought I was a good listener before I got to their studio but now... With all these obstacles to the craft, I still feel that, given time, you really do end up with some extremely, extremely talented and very savvy people making music. Ones who are more aware of how to, not just make a record, but also market it in a meaningful, non-slimy way that works. Extreme peaks among a vast mediocre plateau. Like I said, I'm barely thirty. What the fuck do I really know? But what I'd suggest is that it is not a good time for people who are half-in and half-out. And I don't think money plays as much of a role in this as everyone would have you believe. Furthermore, I don’t really buy into most narratives about what my generation believes or doesn’t believe because people making those claims are trying to approximate a whole which is so diffuse and so fractured that they just end up looking like idiots. (Columnists like David Brooks come to mind…) On another, semi-related note: Our country has always had a disdain for teaching and education and it really is bizarre. It is beyond an Achille's heel. It is an Achille's bullet hole to the chest. Nice post! However you appear to be overlooking the fact that recording music is NOT making music.
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Post by Guitar on Aug 20, 2017 16:42:35 GMT -6
Asheville is touted as a "music town" but to me it's mostly menu music as someone said earlier. A lot of acoustic guitars. Not as many big acts from out of town, either. You would think being surrounded by working musicians would be great, but I find it to be a major distraction. I have enjoyed the exposure to synthesizers, and the occasional big name performer. In the flop house parties and warehouse gigs I have sometimes been exposed to genres I wasn't even aware of. That's always been the best stuff to me. "Broke weirdos," couldn't have said it any better. Ironically, the more mainstream stuff here is generally really conventional and safe sounding. Boring. Bored. My experience of making a few records in Asheville has made me think of it as a black hole of sorts. Yeah, you can go out every night and see 4-5 bands, and NOT see another 15 that you didn't know about. It starts to look like the same stuff and same people pretty quickly, though. It's a long haul to another town for anything different. There's so many local acts, there's no room for, or interest in, anyone from outside Asheville unless they are established and well known. You're in Asheville, or you're not, there's very little grey area. Thanks for verifying that. It's important to me, as I try to plan for the future. Sometimes I feel so alienated I'm like, am I crazy, or is everything else? Luckily I have "friends on the outside" to help me try to keep perspective as I continue to live here and record in isolation.
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Post by drbill on Aug 20, 2017 16:48:23 GMT -6
However you appear to be overlooking the fact that recording music is NOT making music. You don't REALLY want to go down that road do you? Are you just here to try to legislate 1965-1973 on all of us? Cause if you do want to take such a narrow viewpoint, I'll be happy to point out that playing an instrument is not "making music" either. Music is "made" inside our heads / souls. Anything that helps us express it - including a voice - is just a tool. IMO, there are several art forms that require "recording" to "make" music.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Aug 20, 2017 21:01:34 GMT -6
Michael is far from the only one using drugs to get him from gig to gig. People don't really understand why artists used drugs. I thankfully managed to keep away from them. Let's not forget Micheal had some pretty serious burns, not in my league but his pre dates mine, if I could buy a good nights sleep I probably would ! It's been 19 years since I had a good nights sleep without enough Drugs to take down an Elephant or Keith Richards!
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Post by johneppstein on Aug 20, 2017 21:28:48 GMT -6
However you appear to be overlooking the fact that recording music is NOT making music. You don't REALLY want to go down that road do you? Are you just here to try to legislate 1965-1973 on all of us? Cause if you do want to take such a narrow viewpoint, I'll be happy to point out that playing an instrument is not "making music" either. Music is "made" inside our heads / souls. Anything that helps us express it - including a voice - is just a tool. IMO, there are several art forms that require "recording" to "make" music. Yes, and recording itself is an art form. However recording in and of itself is not making music. That's not to say that the same person can't pursue both arts separately or in concert. I have no idea what you might mean by "try to legislate 1965-1973 on all of us". The boss of the pit crew is not the driver of the race car. Neither is the designer of the car. (It might be possible for the same person to perform all 3 roles, but they're still 3 different job descriptions.) You can use all the semantics and philosophizing you want, the facts remain.
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Post by noah shain on Aug 21, 2017 6:31:40 GMT -6
Interesting thread to read. Quite a few left turns here and there but interesting. I'm thirty and probably on the older side of the millennial bracket, but a millennial nonetheless. I remember a childhood with not much more than MS-DOS - what appeared to be a glorified, more temperamental typewriter. And then I remember the days of that horrid dial-up sound, which sounded like the Alien was raping Dalek through an intercom. And I remember waiting up late nights in my room watching a white bar fill up to a blue bar telling me my song download had finished. While pirating the shit out of classic discographies, I can’t forget how genuinely excited and grateful I was every time that download bar said 100%. I burned CDs like a madman so I could go to school the next morning and give my friends a copy in the sheer hopes that they'd feel something of what I felt. And because downloads and leaks were still quite inefficient, I still spent every cent I had on new and old records, books and films and eventually live shows. And I also religiously combed through interviews with my favorite artists hoping they'd name drop a record or two that they liked. What I just described really is no different than anyone who is a lifer with this stuff. And I believe that any anxiety which exists around that incredible feeling - the feeling of being moved by art - is missing the point altogether. It’s not going away. It’s eternal. The technology is what always changes. More people seem to get hurt with each passing change. Yes, it’s true that comedians, chefs, youtube personae have all achieved a higher station than before. Music shares space with a ton of things - including gear lust! And there are a lot of distractions…A ton. So much that eats away at the self-discipline of even the most well-intentioned person of high integrity. It’s also true that a great deal of an artist’s development is his or her personal responsibility, compared to an era where a producer and a team of writers acted as a filter. The same goes for recording studios. If you want people coming through the door, you have to cultivate an experience level, an aesthetic and a musical vocabulary that is irreplaceable. Buying a pair of 1176s and a U87 means jack. The guys I assist under are working regularly because they’ve cultivated a number of skillsets. They’re good at making a joke at the right time. They’re good at making it feel like a record when the artist walks back in from the live room. They’re good at staying on top of which module is acting up in the console. They’re good at recognizing the holes in the synth collection and making a measured purchase that makes sense and adds value to the studio. They’re good at realizing that the upper register of the chorus is a little lacking in impact and may need a counterpoint two-octaves up from the vocal melody. They’re good at recognizing that the internet in the lounge is kind of shitty and we need a new router. Most of all, they know the difference between something that’s alright and something that’s “Wow!” They have conviction about that feeling and will go to bat for their convictions. Are they rich? No, but they’re starting to make more money in one of the most expensive cities in the world. And they pay it forward and are very forthcoming with the next generation of engineers and artists. No one can hear it and do it like they do it, but the attention to detail, the curiosity, the relentlessness - these things are admirable and make you want to be that good. I thought I was a good listener before I got to their studio but now... With all these obstacles to the craft, I still feel that, given time, you really do end up with some extremely, extremely talented and very savvy people making music. Ones who are more aware of how to, not just make a record, but also market it in a meaningful, non-slimy way that works. Extreme peaks among a vast mediocre plateau. Like I said, I'm barely thirty. What the fuck do I really know? But what I'd suggest is that it is not a good time for people who are half-in and half-out. And I don't think money plays as much of a role in this as everyone would have you believe. Furthermore, I don’t really buy into most narratives about what my generation believes or doesn’t believe because people making those claims are trying to approximate a whole which is so diffuse and so fractured that they just end up looking like idiots. (Columnists like David Brooks come to mind…) On another, semi-related note: Our country has always had a disdain for teaching and education and it really is bizarre. It is beyond an Achille's heel. It is an Achille's bullet hole to the chest. Nice post! However you appear to be overlooking the fact that recording music is NOT making music. Recording music may not be making music but I'd proffer that producing records is damn sure making music. The way I do it it is.
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Post by swurveman on Aug 21, 2017 8:52:39 GMT -6
I'm trying to understand your point here. Having grown up listening to Michael Jackson from his Motown days to his solo career, I think he made marvelous music through the studio/label system and evolved with the times setting new/different standards of excellence. What's so hideous about that? The abuse, the drugs, the mental illness, his death. The big star set up for the big fall. Showbiz isn't good for music. There are lots of unknown, indie musicians that are junkies and have personal problems including mental illness. I don't see these problems as being caused by the old model.
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Aug 21, 2017 9:32:25 GMT -6
The drug issue is that most artists will never turn down a gig.
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Post by jazznoise on Aug 21, 2017 9:35:50 GMT -6
The abuse, the drugs, the mental illness, his death. The big star set up for the big fall. Showbiz isn't good for music. There are lots of unknown, indie musicians that are junkies and have personal problems including mental illness. I don't see these problems as being caused by the old model. You're being extremely facetious. MJ was part of a group of kids forced by their father to make music, and were abused as children from every corner. Regardless: name a major musical popstar that hasn't had a public meltdown and tell me the spotlight didn't make it a million times worse. I'm not saying that musicians and mental illness don't go hand in hand, I'm saying the media game is seeing how far you can build these people up before crashing them down into the ground and there's no tears to be shed until it kills them at which point the idea of accountability flies out the window and it's all just "tragedy". How can you see a child star like Michael Jackson or Britney Spears as anything except a victim? Or Gary Coleman or Michauli Culkin for that matter? People like Adele are 18 year olds pressured to tour until they have to stop because of bleeding of the larynx. People like Kurt Cobain who were already fragile were ruthlessly torn apart in the media spotlight. G'way with yourself.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Aug 21, 2017 11:17:27 GMT -6
The drug issue is that most artists will never turn down a gig. The gig is also a very addictive drug!
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Aug 21, 2017 11:20:41 GMT -6
Nice post! However you appear to be overlooking the fact that recording music is NOT making music. Recording music may not be making music but I'd proffer that producing records is damn sure making music. The way I do it it is. Many artists need direction, some need a calming voice others need a kick in the ass, producing is getting Music made so that it can be consumed!
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Post by johneppstein on Aug 21, 2017 11:56:37 GMT -6
Nice post! However you appear to be overlooking the fact that recording music is NOT making music. Recording music may not be making music but I'd proffer that producing records is damn sure making music. The way I do it it is. HAH! Good point. In the case of producing I'd say that in some cases producing can be making music, depending. I don't think anyone would say that Quincy Jones doesn't make music - but with him producing also includes writing arrangements, conducting, etc. Andf as I stated before some people wear more than one hat at a time. A guy like Pete Anderson is a producer but also (at times) a player in the band. OTOH there are people these days calling themselves "producers" who,in my view, aren't, they're electronic musicians. Definitions of roles have become so scrambled since the advent of "popular recording" as to be nearly meaningless, which I, for one, view as a problem. If we don't have clear definitions of terminology, terminology means nothing and discourse crumbles.
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Post by johneppstein on Aug 21, 2017 12:06:26 GMT -6
The abuse, the drugs, the mental illness, his death. The big star set up for the big fall. Showbiz isn't good for music. There are lots of unknown, indie musicians that are junkies and have personal problems including mental illness. I don't see these problems as being caused by the old model. Often the same demons that make people use substances are the same ones that drive them to create. And in some of those cases "curing" their "problem" also "cures" them of their creativity. How did we get onto this, anyway? I have a lot of thoughts about this but I'm going to sit on them for now so as not to drag things even farther off topic...
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Post by swurveman on Aug 21, 2017 13:38:52 GMT -6
There are lots of unknown, indie musicians that are junkies and have personal problems including mental illness. I don't see these problems as being caused by the old model. You're being extremely facetious. MJ was part of a group of kids forced by their father to make music, and were abused as children from every corner. Regardless: name a major musical popstar that hasn't had a public meltdown and tell me the spotlight didn't make it a million times worse. I'm not saying that musicians and mental illness don't go hand in hand, I'm saying the media game is seeing how far you can build these people up before crashing them down into the ground and there's no tears to be shed until it kills them at which point the idea of accountability flies out the window and it's all just "tragedy". How can you see a child star like Michael Jackson or Britney Spears as anything except a victim? Or Gary Coleman or Michauli Culkin for that matter? People like Adele are 18 year olds pressured to tour until they have to stop because of bleeding of the larynx. People like Kurt Cobain who were already fragile were ruthlessly torn apart in the media spotlight. G'way with yourself. Well, there is Bono, Paul McCartney and countless others that, despite the rigors of being successful and famous musicians, didn't succumb to drug addiction and mental illness. So, we'll just have to agree to disagree about blaming "the system". I really don't want this to go farther. So, if you want to have the last word have at it. I'm done.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2017 13:41:32 GMT -6
This escalated quickly..
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Post by indiehouse on Aug 21, 2017 14:08:03 GMT -6
To the OP. not much. I have a pet theory. I think that the middlemen, Spotify Apple YouTube etc blah blah will always have new music to sell. even if artist's can't make music for a living wage, they will still make music. A lot of creative people don't really have a choice in the matter. They make art because they HAVE to for their personal meaning in life and enjoyment. That's why I am involved in music. I have never been delusional enough to think getting involved in the industry would be a wise financial decision. If you can scratch together a living doing whatever it is you love, then you are winning big time. Even if you can't make a living doing what you love, but find a way to do it anyhow, you are still winning. . Even John Lennon was disgruntled about the percentages. In his last television interview he expressed animosity towards the industry saying that the Beatles didn't even see a lot of the money they were bringing in. It was siphoned off before they even knew it was there. Granted what they were left with was still a living wage (lol), but greed and people taking advantage of one another is absolutely nothing new. Man, I love this. Quitting music has never been an option. This is something I HAVE to do. There is no choice. I don't make my living in music. There was a time when I did, and I did not make much money. I was barely getting by. I chose to pursue a different path. Now I make a good living still doing (educational) audio/video production work, just not music production. I earned my Masters degree from Ohio State where I studied and researched the diffusion of new music through online social networks. I literally researched how young people learn about and consume new music. Generally, people find out about new bands from their friends. It's a word of mouth world. There are still those who are into music, that go out and seek new music, buy records, see shows, etc. Then they recommend stuff to their friends, etc. But, the way young people consume music is different. It's Spotify and YouTube for most. Those that do buy tend to purchase singles the majority of the time. There are no absolutes, either. When someone speaks in absolutes (all, none, etc.), they are full of it. Also, and this is anecdotal, but there is TONS of good (IMO) new music to be heard. The rate of new discovery for me is at an all time high. And I don't even try that hard to seek. But that's the thing. The old methods of distribution/discovery are largely done. New music doesn't come to you anymore. You must seek it out, or have an opinion leader in your social network. Guys that go around saying new music sucks and largely base their opinion on what they hear coming from the old channels of distribution (top 40 stuff), either aren't seeking, or have no opinion leaders in their network. Their worldview is narrow and affirmed by everyones same outlook, a giant circlejerk. And someone is recording all that new music. The guy on here that's going around saying that all kids wanna hear is dance music, (and if you're not playing dance music, then you will not be successful) has a narrow world view. I'm not saying it's an invalid world view. His experience and social influence has shaped this view. But it's a skewed reality. I can't comment on the financial stability of engineering full time. I tried it for a short while, and wanted more. I wanted to buy gear. I wanted to own a house. I wanted to have children. I wanted decent health care. I could have made more serving ice cream down at the Dairy Queen. So I opted for a different route. I do second guess my decision some times, because there is never enough time for music. And I see guys on here that are successful and makes me wonder if I should have stuck with it longer, or moved to a different city. But I'm 38 now. And I have two young kids who I couldn't imagine my world without. So, there can be no regrets, because regrets would mean a world without them. I've played through the scenario where I quit my day job and open my own studio. For starters, I'd probably be looking at a $30K-$40K pay cut, no 401K and no paid time off. We'd have to move because we wouldn't be able to afford our house. The school district for my kids wouldn't be nearly as good. I'd probably have to give up a lot of time spent with my girls, because typically bands need to record nights/weekends. I probably wouldn't be able to afford nice gear anymore. I'd have to compete with a half dozen or so other nice studios in this area, and deal with the typical band un-pleasantries we've all dealt with before. And then there's the startup costs. I'd have to find a space and renovate it to studio spec. Probably have to sell my gear off to afford it. Then, I'd have to be out on the scene late nights trying to meet some new people. And there is no guarantee any of this would work. It sounds exhausting. I think it's a young mans game. I think my time for this pursuit has passed. I should have packed up and moved when I was twenty. But on the upside, I can afford nice gear now. I can afford to build a pretty great studio space. I am a musician. I am an engineer. I can choose to work on my own music (a la wiz, ragan, Johnkenn, etc.). And I could (and have) taken on other band projects from time to time. This thread has evolved into a few different areas, which is super cool, and all relevant, though there have been some darker turns by a couple of negative nancy posters. My post is probably more introspective than I intended, but I started the thread with a question, and these are my evolving thoughts. Plus, it helps the soul to lay it out there from time to time.
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