|
Post by M57 on Aug 18, 2017 17:37:34 GMT -6
The problem is people willing to play for free or even pay to play. ..and this is a problem because? I'm only mildly trolling here. The answer I'd normally expect is that "real" musicians can't make a living playing out ..add to that they can't make a living recording, writing, blah blah etc.. But my question still stands.. Is there less art where there are more artists?
|
|
|
Post by drbill on Aug 18, 2017 18:12:12 GMT -6
The problem is people willing to play for free or even pay to play. ..and this is a problem because? I'm only mildly trolling here. The answer I'd normally expect is that "real" musicians can't make a living playing out ..add to that they can't make a living recording, writing, blah blah etc.. But my question still stands.. Is there less art where there are more artists?No, there's certainly more "art" - but the ability to create great, classic art that can and will withstand the test of time becomes exponentially more difficult to produce because of "cheap" art degrading - or perhaps a better word would be diluting - the marketplace. This is certainly a controversial and complicated issue, but I think verifiable if one looks at the situation as it unrolled over the last 25 years objectively. It is what it is. Pandora's box has been opened, and the genie is not going back into the bottle. Now it's a fight it and move on as best as we can era. I think that in 100 years, the creative surge of music throughout the 60-70-80's will be looked at as an amazing occurrence that will never be matched.
|
|
|
Post by Bob Olhsson on Aug 18, 2017 18:26:59 GMT -6
The "art" has turned into a hobby with people having dramatically less performing experience.
|
|
|
Post by M57 on Aug 18, 2017 18:43:41 GMT -6
..and this is a problem because? I'm only mildly trolling here. The answer I'd normally expect is that "real" musicians can't make a living playing out ..add to that they can't make a living recording, writing, blah blah etc.. But my question still stands.. Is there less art where there are more artists?No, there's certainly more "art" - but the ability to create great, classic art that can and will withstand the test of time becomes exponentially more difficult to produce because of "cheap" art degrading - or perhaps a better word would be diluting - the marketplace. This is certainly a controversial and complicated issue, but I think verifiable if one looks at the situation as it unrolled over the last 25 years objectively. It is what it is. Pandora's box has been opened, and the genie is not going back into the bottle. Now it's a fight it and move on as best as we can era. I think that in 100 years, the creative surge of music throughout the 60-70-80's will be looked at as an amazing occurrence that will never be matched. The 'surge' of music in the 60-70-80 was probably about as big as the surge in the 40-50's when compared to the 20-30's. and of course, we're talking about recorded music. Speaking of the 30's and 40's What a kick in the butt it must have been to sit in the pews in Church of St. Thomas' in the 1730's and 40's and hear a new Bach Cantata every week, essentially witnessing the birth, proof of concept and practical exhaustion of the tempered tuning system we use today in western music. I'm not discounting how important or incredible a time the 60-80's were, but I'd wager the this technological bump that we're experiencing now, and for instance the changes we're seeing in the home studio environment, is but in it's nascent form. 100 years is very long time. I've said it before - the 60's 70's and 80's were a fabulous time ..for those few who could afford to walk into a pro studio (or be part of the machine) and be recorded. I was around then and I wasn't one of them.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2017 19:16:13 GMT -6
It was the best of times. It was the worst of times.
Not to pummel the deceased pony here, but it just seems like every thread on any gear forum generally derails into the "It was better way back when" discussion.
Yawn...
I really, truly am sorry that some of you aren't seeing the same quality levels in the opportunities (or gear or success) you saw decades ago. I am. Honest. But what the fuck are you doing about it today? Pissing and moaning or kicking down new doors? Maybe you can't teach an old dog new tricks, but truth is that the world changes and those who don't adapt tend to perish.
I know it sucks that kids today don't see music (or audio) as the cool path we all know it is. Today the rock stars are chefs and YouTube personalities. Rock music is no longer the most dominant commercial music force any longer. Kids think music is made on laptops and given away for free. It makes me feel old as dirt. But then again so would driving around in a horse and buggy.
All the big brains here and the best we can do is complain? That's bullshit. I don't accept that. Truth is there is still business to be had doing what you love in a seemingly dying (or lets call it "legacy") vocation... its just all about what you are doing to find that work, have that work find you, your marketing and branding.
One of my closest friends in the world runs an extremely successful independent label group in NYC that he's built from the ground up over the past 20 years. He tours all over the world playing his indie rock, produces other artists and just this morning told me that his new season of shows at Rockwood Music Hall is already one quarter sold out within the first 24 hours, even before he announced it. Why? Because he's been busting his ass. Never, ever have I heard him complain about "how it used to be" because he's spent the better part of the last two decades fighting tooth and nail for every inch of ground instead of wasting energy bitching about what was and what isn't anymore.
You can't just hang your shingle and wait for clients and customers to come to you. That shit doesn't work anymore. And if that doesn't suit you, maybe your run is over and its time to change your game somehow. Yeah, it's fucked up. But so is life.
Look fellow grumpsters, nobody is taking away the glory of your past successes. But instead of depressing the fuck out of each other with our sorry tales of how shitty it is out there today, let's put our heads together and brainstorm ideas for ways to improve the capturing of opportunities that are still out there and how to grow our businesses.
|
|
|
Post by johneppstein on Aug 18, 2017 19:31:06 GMT -6
When I was in high school during the early '60s friends earned $100-200 each every weekend playing in bands. And that was REAL MONEY back then - like making one or two grand now!
|
|
|
Post by Bob Olhsson on Aug 18, 2017 20:03:30 GMT -6
I've said it before - the 60's 70's and 80's were a fabulous time ..for those few who could afford to walk into a pro studio (or be part of the machine) and be recorded. I was around then and I wasn't one of them. It wasn't about affording to be recorded. It was something you could earn by demonstrating an ability to draw an audience. I'd argue what I saw from the inside was a far more democratic meritocracy. I think you need to understand what's broken before you can fix it.
|
|
|
Post by johneppstein on Aug 18, 2017 20:38:12 GMT -6
I've said it before - the 60's 70's and 80's were a fabulous time ..for those few who could afford to walk into a pro studio (or be part of the machine) and be recorded. I was around then and I wasn't one of them. No insult intended, but that's a really retarded view of the industry that is more rooted in tech industry propaganda than in reality. When I was a kid in Norman Oklahoma in the mid '60s the most popular high school band in town put their nickles and dimes together and paid to record a single at the studio in back of Carl and Bob's music (the local Fender dealer, mostly favored by the country type musicians in town) where they had a couple of 1/2" 3 track Ampex machines and one of those old RCA consoles with the big black rotary faders, and 2 weeks and $200 later they had a big box of 45s on "Shore Bird Records", which they distributed to all the places that sold singles and ran a few freebies up to KOMA and WKY, the two local 50,000 watt top 40 AM stations. A week later they had a local radio hit and within a month were charting regionally. This was a bunch of kids still in high school (but not for long) with the cash they'd generated playing sock hops and house parties. No management, no publicity, no business support when they started. The year was about 1966. I'd like to see ANYONE do that now. IIRC, Elvis paid Sam Phillips something like $25 to do his first recording at Sun.
|
|
|
Post by johneppstein on Aug 18, 2017 20:56:17 GMT -6
It was the best of times. It was the worst of times. Not to pummel the deceased pony here, but it just seems like every thread on any gear forum generally derails into the "It was better way back when" discussion. Yawn... I really, truly am sorry that some of you aren't seeing the same quality levels in the opportunities (or gear or success) you saw decades ago. I am. Honest. But what the fuck are you doing about it today? Pissing and moaning or kicking down new doors? Maybe you can't teach an old dog new tricks, but truth is that the world changes and those who don't adapt tend to perish. What am I doing today? Today I'm trying to figure out where I'm going to get several thousand dollars to put out my new album, with little or no chance at distribution on any realistic basis, no reasonable chance of a return on the investment, and no chance ofg promotion or air play unless I pay for it. Myself. Through the nose. Whaty "new doors"? There arte no "new doors" - just the same old doors but locked up by new owners and with no money behind them in the rare event that they might crack, which is almost impossible - because those new owners keep all of it for themselves. I'm going to cut this now because this is a civil site and I believe in respecting that. However, if you want to put your money where your mouth is, about 20 grand would make a modest start on manufacturing and a little promo.
|
|
|
Post by jcoutu1 on Aug 18, 2017 21:10:01 GMT -6
It was the best of times. It was the worst of times. Not to pummel the deceased pony here, but it just seems like every thread on any gear forum generally derails into the "It was better way back when" discussion. Yawn... I really, truly am sorry that some of you aren't seeing the same quality levels in the opportunities (or gear or success) you saw decades ago. I am. Honest. But what the fuck are you doing about it today? Pissing and moaning or kicking down new doors? Maybe you can't teach an old dog new tricks, but truth is that the world changes and those who don't adapt tend to perish. What am I doing today? Today I'm trying to figure out where I'm going to get several thousand dollars to put out my new album, with little or no chance at distribution on any realistic basis, no reasonable chance of a return on the investment, and no chance ofg promotion or air play unless I pay for it. Myself. Through the nose. Whaty "new doors"? There arte no "new doors" - just the same old doors but locked up by new owners and with no money behind them in the rare event that they might crack, which is almost impossible - because those new owners keep all of it for themselves. I'm going to cut this now because this is a civil site and I believe in respecting that. However, if you want to put your money where your mouth is, about 20 grand would make a modest start on manufacturing and a little promo. How are you putting out the album? I imagine that you could release on the www instead of a physical format (that probably won't sell anyway) and save a solid G. I would think that being here, you're probably recording/mixing it yourself too. Seems fairly inexpensive at that point.
|
|
|
Post by johneppstein on Aug 18, 2017 21:19:36 GMT -6
What am I doing today? Today I'm trying to figure out where I'm going to get several thousand dollars to put out my new album, with little or no chance at distribution on any realistic basis, no reasonable chance of a return on the investment, and no chance ofg promotion or air play unless I pay for it. Myself. Through the nose. Whaty "new doors"? There arte no "new doors" - just the same old doors but locked up by new owners and with no money behind them in the rare event that they might crack, which is almost impossible - because those new owners keep all of it for themselves. I'm going to cut this now because this is a civil site and I believe in respecting that. However, if you want to put your money where your mouth is, about 20 grand would make a modest start on manufacturing and a little promo. How are you putting out the album? I imagine that you could release on the www instead of a physical format (that probably won't sell anyway) and save a solid G. I would think that being here, you're probably recording/mixing it yourself too. Seems fairly inexpensive at that point. Putting it out on the www is useless with no promo, especially with no current live band. Of course I'll do it, but I don't expect anything. Promo starts at around $2000 to be included in a mailing to all the usual media, along with another hundred or two other acts. They do mailings every month or so. I also need hard copy for promo purposes and after I get a working band back together (anybody know any steel players in the general area of Solano County?) will need vinyl to sell at gigs.
|
|
|
Post by yotonic on Aug 18, 2017 23:12:21 GMT -6
I still come across truly gifted players and songwriters on a regular basis - whether the commercial machinery is in place to elevate as many of them as radio and A&R did in the 70s - probably not. But they are still coming. Just like they did before the 70s. There will always be amazingly gifted players and writers, now it just seems harder to filter them out of all the noise out there without the curation of the old A&R departments. And a lot of them aren't doing it for the "record contract" anymore, those days are gone and so are the hordes of posers. "At times" it seems to have returned some nobility to the craft as the gifted artists are grinding it even without the promise of commercial success. Yes there are a lot more mediocre people playing instruments, and making records with their laptops, but there are just as many super gifted musicians now as there were "then". That upper 10% of players seems to have more to do with nature and seems to stay pretty constant throughout the decades across genres. I just met Jacob Collier a few weeks ago and he's a truly gifted player who Quincy Jones is mentoring. The kid is relevant and fresh and the crowds at his shows span from high schoolers to retirees.
|
|
|
Post by johneppstein on Aug 18, 2017 23:59:52 GMT -6
I still come across truly gifted players and songwriters on a regular basis - whether the commercial machinery is in place to elevate as many of them as radio and A&R did in the 70s - probably not. But they are still coming. Just like they did before the 70s. There will always be amazingly gifted players and writers, now it just seems harder to filter them out of all the noise out there without the curation of the old A&R departments. And a lot of them aren't doing it for the "record contract" anymore, those days are gone and so are the hordes of posers. "At times" it seems to have returned some nobility to the craft as the gifted artists are grinding it even without the promise of commercial success. Yes there are a lot more mediocre people playing instruments, and making records with their laptops, but there are just as many super gifted musicians now as there were "then". That upper 10% of players seems to have more to do with nature and seems to stay pretty constant throughout the decades across genres. I just met Jacob Collier a few weeks ago and he's a truly gifted player who Quincy Jones is mentoring. The kid is relevant and fresh and the crowds at his shows span from high schoolers to retirees. The "hoardes of posers"? Fewer? I VEHEMENTLY disagree. There are far more posers, fakes, "bedroom dabblers", and other sources of random interference/noise in the market than ever in history. There used to be gateways that insured a certain minimum level of talent and skill. Now any kid who can raid his mom's purse for enough twenties to score a library of loops at GC - or more likely just steal it off the internet - is a "pahdoosah" and "artist". They even claim to be "musicians" althoughh they can't play a note on any real instrument. It's a travesty. It's an infinitely tragic state of affairs. There is no longer a way to attain recognition on the basis of merit alone. There is no longer any reward or recognition for real talent. That's not to say that real talent doesn't get through - but only with other money behind them because the industry itself has no funds for artist development.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2017 1:30:35 GMT -6
The "hoardes of posers"? Fewer? I VEHEMENTLY disagree. There are far more posers, fakes, "bedroom dabblers", and other sources of random interference/noise in the market than ever in history. There used to be gateways that insured a certain minimum level of talent and skill. Now any kid who can raid his mom's purse for enough twenties to score a library of loops at GC - or more likely just steal it off the internet - is a "pahdoosah" and "artist". They even claim to be "musicians" althoughh they can't play a note on any real instrument. It's a travesty. It's an infinitely tragic state of affairs. There is no longer a way to attain recognition on the basis of merit alone. There is no longer any reward or recognition for real talent. That's not to say that real talent doesn't get through - but only with other money behind them because the industry itself has no funds for artist development. This is an oft posed argument, but I don't agree. If an "artist" / "band" / "AE" or whoever is fresh, relevant and has talent the "Posers / Fakes / Bedroom Dabblers" as you put it will not stand in their way, just the opposite - as cream rises. If someone is still trying to turn people on to a genre that ran it's course 10,20,30 or 40 years ago then they will have to be a) 10 times better than the bands of the day, and b) prepared to attract a minority audience with little radio interest. When Van Gogh painted, so did millions of other "bedroom artists". Us "bedroom dabblers" are helping all you uber talented Artists, A/E's and Writers to rise to the top, not preventing it. We do, however, provide an excuse for the many that fail ......... One last thought - years ago we'd all go to the local pub every night of the week, and that way they had the income to pay bands. These days most are pretty empty the majority of the time, so "free music" is the best they can offer. Perhaps we should blame supermarket beer for the failure of the music industry?
|
|
|
Post by M57 on Aug 19, 2017 4:24:41 GMT -6
When I was in high school during the early '60s friends earned $100-200 each every weekend playing in bands. And that was REAL MONEY back then - like making one or two grand now! Awesome - what towns? Playing what kind of music? That's great if you what people want you to play and find other people who you enjoy playing with and want to play with you - and that's assuming you even like to play out in the first place. For most people, that's fine because that's the culture, but not all. I played out and I made money, but the music I played out was not at all what I was interested in. I'm just saying there were restrictions.
|
|
|
Post by M57 on Aug 19, 2017 4:30:32 GMT -6
The "art" has turned into a hobby with people having dramatically less performing experience. ..and this is bad because? I dislike most musical performances I see. Dancing, strutting about - catering to what people see more than what they hear more than half the time. I'm only half serious about this. There is value in performing, but it is not the end-all where the art of creating sound is concerned.
|
|
|
Post by Bob Olhsson on Aug 19, 2017 9:45:10 GMT -6
Audience feedback is the only thing I've ever seen differentiate people from good/competent to great/successful. I'm talking about connecting vocally and not prancing about like Mick Jagger or Chuck Berry. Playing out costs far more money than it did prior to the 1970s yet pay has plummeted. This has dramatically reduced the percentage and number of great performers. I grew up in suburban Detroit and my friends were playing guitar rock. When I moved to San Francisco in 1972 people I met told me they'd also earned that kind of money in high school.
So how do we flip this race to the bottom? I'd say by creating venues high school kids can attend and perform in. Living room parties to begin with. Replacing DJs with live music would help a lot. Chet Helms and Bill Graham built today's rock concert infrastructure in about six years starting from living rooms! Helms had created the Austin scene before moving to San Francisco.
|
|
|
Post by drbill on Aug 19, 2017 10:06:24 GMT -6
So how do we flip this race to the bottom? I'd say by creating venues high school kids can attend and perform in. Bob - you're pre-supposing that high school kids would even WANT to do that. From what I've seen, for the most part, they don't. Maybe someday that will change.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2017 11:42:01 GMT -6
It was the best of times. It was the worst of times. Not to pummel the deceased pony here, but it just seems like every thread on any gear forum generally derails into the "It was better way back when" discussion. Yawn... I really, truly am sorry that some of you aren't seeing the same quality levels in the opportunities (or gear or success) you saw decades ago. I am. Honest. But what the fuck are you doing about it today? Pissing and moaning or kicking down new doors? Maybe you can't teach an old dog new tricks, but truth is that the world changes and those who don't adapt tend to perish. What am I doing today? Today I'm trying to figure out where I'm going to get several thousand dollars to put out my new album, with little or no chance at distribution on any realistic basis, no reasonable chance of a return on the investment, and no chance ofg promotion or air play unless I pay for it. Myself. Through the nose. Whaty "new doors"? There arte no "new doors" - just the same old doors but locked up by new owners and with no money behind them in the rare event that they might crack, which is almost impossible - because those new owners keep all of it for themselves. I'm going to cut this now because this is a civil site and I believe in respecting that. However, if you want to put your money where your mouth is, about 20 grand would make a modest start on manufacturing and a little promo. John, I admire the dedication to your art and your brand. From how you describe the situation, it doesn't seem to make sense from a business standpoint so I'm taking the viewpoint that you're doing it for the pure art of it. An artist sacrifices in order to make their work available to those willing to consume it. It's a noble pursuit, no doubt. But, even so, the resources required to record, master and press an album are no laughing matter and if your sole means of distro is hand-to-hand at only your gigs, you are missing out on many varied opportunities not only to recoup, but to also grow your audience base. You may choose to reject the Internet as a method to market your music because it really is a scrum, but those with quality product, across every genre of music, succeed where you say you fear to tread. I will make one suggestion and one only. Get great video of you performing just one of your new tunes. It doesn't have to be "Live at the Fillmore" quality. It can just be you and a guitar performing in your workspace. Release it on YouTube. Search for blogs and podcasts that feature the type of music you do (I'm blindly guessing Americana) and send them a link. Start with that. I'm sure if you asked, there are people here who would put that link on their social media. I would. I realize this is all unsolicited advice. But if you would like some folks here to add suggestions what you could do within your means on the WWW, as opposed to all of us just bitching about how shitty today's world is, let's turn this into a constructive discourse on how to solve this common issue. I'm sure there are people here who would be glad to lend an idea or two for you to contemplate, and possibly act upon. I sense a great deal of defeat in your tone and if you as an artist have indeed poured your heart into what you've created, it would be a shame to let it go unnoticed.
|
|
|
Post by johneppstein on Aug 19, 2017 13:04:40 GMT -6
So how do we flip this race to the bottom? I'd say by creating venues high school kids can attend and perform in. Bob - you're pre-supposing that high school kids would even WANT to do that. From what I've seen, for the most part, they don't. Maybe someday that will change. High school kids like to dance. Rock lost its way when it stopped being primarily dance music, just as jazz did before it. Chicks aren't very interested in standing around and watching a guitarist's fingers as he rips through exercises at a mile a minute. Guys who are looking for chicks and baren't particularly interested in virtuosity contests aren't very likely to show up either. Right now the problem is compounded by the fact that nearly all music venues serve alcohol, so high school kids can't get in. I remember in NYC back in the '60s the music venues in the Village were all coffe houses - few, if any, served booze at all. You buy your ticket at the doopr and would also be required to purchase tickets for two drinks, at around 2 bucks each. These drinks would be huge, fantastic concoctions of coffe, ice cream, whipped cream, chocolate, flavorings, etc. Little fancy things sprinkled on top. No booze. There was no age limit. Most of them were not dance venues, but the combination of top upcoming acts, the amazing menus, and all ages made for a huge draw anyway. In Oklahoma there were school sock hops in the gym on a regular basis and various local churches sponsored dances. There were also dances on weekends at to local roller skating rink where older (college age) regional acts played, and a downtown hotel put on dances featuring national acts like Bo Diddley and The Kingsmen, these last mainly catering to the college crowd. When the punk scene started in SF in the late '70s one of the things that made it a draw was the chicks. During the first wave the chicks would come down and pogo and where there are chicks there are guys. What ruined it was when the skinheads started invading from LA, started monopolizing the dance floor with slamming and moshing, and subsequently chased all the chicks away. That's when punk started dying and becoming an insular scene with little outside appeal. It had started as a college art school thing but when the thugs moved in all that went away, fast. Original punk was probably the last form of rock that retained some semblance of a "dance" ethic. The alternative was the glitz of disco and we all know what that evolved into eventually - DJs and discos.
|
|
|
Post by drbill on Aug 19, 2017 13:39:45 GMT -6
But they're just not interested anymore. Music is passe for the vast majority of HS kids. For those who it is NOT passe, they just want to jump straight into making records. One of their fathers will pop for a GC "studio" for them.
|
|
|
Post by johneppstein on Aug 19, 2017 13:50:13 GMT -6
What am I doing today? Today I'm trying to figure out where I'm going to get several thousand dollars to put out my new album, with little or no chance at distribution on any realistic basis, no reasonable chance of a return on the investment, and no chance ofg promotion or air play unless I pay for it. Myself. Through the nose. Whaty "new doors"? There arte no "new doors" - just the same old doors but locked up by new owners and with no money behind them in the rare event that they might crack, which is almost impossible - because those new owners keep all of it for themselves. I'm going to cut this now because this is a civil site and I believe in respecting that. However, if you want to put your money where your mouth is, about 20 grand would make a modest start on manufacturing and a little promo. John, I admire the dedication to your art and your brand. From how you describe the situation, it doesn't seem to make sense from a business standpoint so I'm taking the viewpoint that you're doing it for the pure art of it. An artist sacrifices in order to make their work available to those willing to consume it. It's a noble pursuit, no doubt. But, even so, the resources required to record, master and press an album are no laughing matter and if your sole means of distro is hand-to-hand at only your gigs, you are missing out on many varied opportunities not only to recoup, but to also grow your audience base. You may choose to reject the Internet as a method to market your music because it really is a scrum, but those with quality product, across every genre of music, succeed where you say you fear to tread. I will make one suggestion and one only. Get great video of you performing just one of your new tunes. It doesn't have to be "Live at the Fillmore" quality. It can just be you and a guitar performing in your workspace. Release it on YouTube. Search for blogs and podcasts that feature the type of music you do (I'm blindly guessing Americana) and send them a link. Start with that. I'm sure if you asked, there are people here who would put that link on their social media. I would. I realize this is all unsolicited advice. But if you would like some folks here to add suggestions what you could do within your means on the WWW, as opposed to all of us just bitching about how shitty today's world is, let's turn this into a constructive discourse on how to solve this common issue. I'm sure there are people here who would be glad to lend an idea or two for you to contemplate, and possibly act upon. I sense a great deal of defeat in your tone and if you as an artist have indeed poured your heart into what you've created, it would be a shame to let it go unnoticed. I don't "reject the internet". In fact I was a very early booster of the "potential" of the internet,. bought into the Kool-Aid 110%. What I'm saying is that the internet doesn't work. It's a truly terrible vehicle for music promotion unless you've got some source of bucks behind you. You had a MUCH better chance of making it back in the primitive "stone age" world of the '60s than you do today. The noise floor is just too high to deal with. The emperor has no friggin' clothes! The problem is that the internet drove all the effective sources of promotion that were available to the independent musician out of business. The is no local music press anymore, and the local music press was key in getting the careers of ocal acts off the ground. The replacement is "internet blogs" which are moreer or less useless without a promo company behind you to send out press releases. (sure, you could do all that yourself, but that would leave no time and energy left for music.) One of the biggest problems is that the blogs lack local focus and don't support local artists, venues, and, most importantly, scenes. And it was quite cheap to get coverage or even buy advertising. There is no surviving equivalent. The internet is great for promoting acts that already have a visible presence. It's fairly useless for new, unsponsored talent.
|
|
|
Post by johneppstein on Aug 19, 2017 14:02:55 GMT -6
But they're just not interested anymore. Music is passe for the vast majority of HS kids. For those who it is NOT passe, they just want to jump straight into making records. One of their fathers will pop for a GC "studio" for them. I disagree. Kids wanna dance. Hip-hop is booming, and whatever else one might or might not say about hip-hop you can dance to it. In fact, much of it is stripped down to ONLY a danceable beat track and a chanted/recited vocal. One of the reasons that country music is still surviving pretty well is that much country is still danceable. Kids wanna dance. PEOPLE wanna dance. Bob O is always talking about how you gotta get asses in seats. I say that's all well and good for us older folks, but if you wanna get the kids you have to get those asses OUT OF the seats and ON TO the dance floor!
|
|
|
Post by johneppstein on Aug 19, 2017 14:10:16 GMT -6
The "art" has turned into a hobby with people having dramatically less performing experience. ..and this is bad because? I dislike most musical performances I see. Maybe that's because they aren't very good? And maybe they aren't very good is that the acts don't have any real performing experience to speak of? When you do all your playing looking into a mirror what do you expect? That's what happens when musicians with no real performing experience fall into the hands of choreographers. And when the pop music "scene" (such as it is) is primarily controlled by the advertising industry.
|
|
|
Post by drbill on Aug 19, 2017 14:19:37 GMT -6
I disagree. Kids wanna dance. So what? Dancing doesn't equate to learning an instrument, joining a band, paying your dues, and taking music back to 1970 (or choose your favorite era) again. I'll say it again - kids don't care about music, learning an instrument, getting in a band, playing out. It's a dead (for all intents and purposes) paradigm that passed (or is in the state of passing) with the older generation of musicians. OF COURSE there are EXTREMELY notable exceptions. But exceptions to the rule don't make a scene.
|
|