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Post by Johnkenn on Jan 28, 2014 9:35:29 GMT -6
I've never done strictly LCR, but I used to do drum OHs 100% left and right. If I had dubbed guitars in there, they'd be panned hard also. Then I tested doing 50% instead, and I've never looked back. Sounds much more natural and cohesive to me. I've always loved the realness of drums in mono, but sometimes a track needs the stereo spread of the OHs. I've found doing 50% L and R to be a great compromise. Interesting... |
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jan 28, 2014 10:09:34 GMT -6
Most times, I mix like I'm in the tenth row looking at a band. Rarely do I pan totally left and right. I let the reverb fill the space left open hard left and hard right.
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Post by popmann on Jan 28, 2014 10:15:15 GMT -6
I rarely pan overhead hard...but, really, that's be cause there is no standard width for overhead placement. It's not like any two MICS hung any distance over the kit have a certain width tithe image. But, I do tend to prefer to not exaggerate the drum lot width, which typical spaced pairs do--so, if it's a nice but wide image, I tend to go 3&9 with it. If I go more narrow, it's more into problem minimization.
Wide drums are not usually helpful....and the Tom panning needs to follow the overheads...so, wherever it falls in the stereo field of those mics...toms and overheads are a good example of LCR being a fail principle. You are now taking whatever width the kit was tracked at AND unable to use any close Tom MICS...right? Technically, you shouldn't stereo mic ANYTHING if you believe strongly in LCR--because any two MICS will inheirently place the image somewhere in between and you have no way to move or change that placement with a pan pot.
I'm curious to hear how pan "circuits" Ina digital mixer affect the sound. I'm not actually being a smart ass (you know-this time)...as pan law implementation is actually what I was told was the difference I was hearing between my old Akai DPS24 and software mixers. I've often wondered if the newfound love of LCR (and analog panning/summing) is directly related to said "implementation" of pan law.
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LCR mixing
Jan 28, 2014 13:11:46 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by tonycamphd on Jan 28, 2014 13:11:46 GMT -6
What is amazing to me is how some commercial records that utilize a strict LCR panning(even though they actually are NOT) leave a pull across drums like a h hat, tom or cymbal pull across the stereo image?? It disturbing sounding to my ears also, it tends to make drums sound disconnected, like the pieces are in different rooms or something.
Example, Joan osbourne, one of us, drums sound weird to me, Whitman is a fine engineer none the less.
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Jan 28, 2014 14:05:58 GMT -6
I think the biggest advantage to LCR mixing is musical translation including to mono.
Many consoles had a pan pot that was an addition to the buss selectors. In many cases feeding either or both busses using the selector buttons sounded far more open and less constricted than using the pan pots. Pan pots improved over the years but people found that the translation advantage was significant even though the sound quality was no longer particularly better. The method also leads one into certain arrangement choices.
We always had pan pots at Motown so I had no idea about this before mixing at Wally Heider's and Sound Labs and I didn't fully understand it until around five years ago.
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Post by jazznoise on Jan 28, 2014 14:51:27 GMT -6
Software "pan pots" do not influence the sound. They work on multiplication in the same sense as a fader in a DAW does.
Now "Panning Laws" are a whole other thing. They will influence how a pan sounds if you pan from L to R, or changes in balance.
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Post by lcr on Jan 28, 2014 17:40:31 GMT -6
check this out, if you got 2 hours: it's a video of a google hangout hosted by daniel ford, with a bunch of dudes from pensado's students facebook group. i got to sit in on this, it was cool. Thanks for this. I managed to get all the way through it (I had to pause/resume several times). I like his concepts on LCR. What I got from it, was like LCR or not, here is a way to look at panning, now go abuse it in a cool way(no rules!) which Is a great attitude toward things such as LCR. I still can't grasp how M/S hp/lp works. If the center is a sum of the sides, how do you hp/lp only the sides or only the center and not affect the other? |
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Post by drbill on Jan 28, 2014 21:36:42 GMT -6
LCR panning Who does it? Do you strickly mix LCR If not, what do you do? To answer your question(s) : Lots of people, but not me. No. I use the panpots. I figure that since someone way smarter than me made em, and since they are on virtually every modern console made in the last 30 years, why not use them. I don't like rules, and I don't follow people who tell me to play by them. Personally, I "usually" (never say never) don't like the way L/C/R sounds. I've mixed hundreds of records. No one ever complained that they weren't "wide" enough. Using only LCR is pretty simple, but so confining for me. I think it's for a time long past.... Do I mix stuff hard L/R or C? Sure. But I don't buss them there, I use the panpots and turn em to taste. Most stuff sits in the land "in-between". Except for Lead vox, Sn, Kick, Bass. Those are usually C. But hey, it's just my $.02. |
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