ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 14,934
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Post by ericn on Jul 15, 2017 9:16:27 GMT -6
In the early days the VCA circuit was designed to compensate for either a linear or Audio taper, when replacing best to talk to a Tech who knows the specific console. It can be problematic some old Otari's have custom P&G's that P&G will have nothing to do with !
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Post by mdmitch2 on Jul 15, 2017 10:11:00 GMT -6
From what little info I can find about the Audio Kinetics (Mastermix) system, it was designed to work with log audio taper, and the electronics made the necessary conversion. My console was built in 1987, so I'm guessing this was one of the 'earlier' systems as Eric mentioned.
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Post by johneppstein on Jul 15, 2017 12:54:23 GMT -6
Lemme know if you have issues with your power supply -- I completely rebuilt one of mine, and I think still have the mouser BOM. Thanks for the offer but I don't think I'll be rebuilding it. The Neotek supply the console came with has a few hotspots on the PCB. I have done a voltage test with no load and the voltages looked okay but of course that can change under load. However the board itself has two power connections on the rear which have both been removed and the internal wiring has two seperate power feeds going to each half of the board of which the pairs have been twisted together and taped up in order to run the console off a single supply. This has not been done at the factory. I have had a few conflicting opinions whether or not my console requires one or two supplies. It has 32 mono channels, 8 stereo channels PLUS VCA faders which have quite a lot of IC's on the VCA fader PCB's. Even if a single supply was just barely adequate to run a 40 channel non VCA Elite there is a bunch of extra VCA circuitry to power and this is the issue with a single supply IMO. There is no doubt that the console did have two power supplies at some point but I didn't receive a second supply. I am now considering the GRS supply as rebuilding the Neotek supply I have won't achieve much if the console needs two of them to power it properly. The GRS has more than double the capacity of the Neotek supply. I think I learnt my lesson about buying a console sight unseen along dealing with unscrupulous business operators. Unfortunately in Australia there's almost zero options over here to purchase this kind of gear. I believe my Elite is only one of four Elites in the entire country. Compare that with hundreds in the US and that's why you never see them for sale over here. Those hot spots on the supply PCB just might have something to do with running the whole console off one supply if it was designed for two. Probably not real great for the transformer, either.... Just a thought.
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Post by rowmat on Jul 16, 2017 4:44:39 GMT -6
Thanks for the offer but I don't think I'll be rebuilding it. The Neotek supply the console came with has a few hotspots on the PCB. I have done a voltage test with no load and the voltages looked okay but of course that can change under load. However the board itself has two power connections on the rear which have both been removed and the internal wiring has two seperate power feeds going to each half of the board of which the pairs have been twisted together and taped up in order to run the console off a single supply. This has not been done at the factory. I have had a few conflicting opinions whether or not my console requires one or two supplies. It has 32 mono channels, 8 stereo channels PLUS VCA faders which have quite a lot of IC's on the VCA fader PCB's. Even if a single supply was just barely adequate to run a 40 channel non VCA Elite there is a bunch of extra VCA circuitry to power and this is the issue with a single supply IMO. There is no doubt that the console did have two power supplies at some point but I didn't receive a second supply. I am now considering the GRS supply as rebuilding the Neotek supply I have won't achieve much if the console needs two of them to power it properly. The GRS has more than double the capacity of the Neotek supply. I think I learnt my lesson about buying a console sight unseen along dealing with unscrupulous business operators. Unfortunately in Australia there's almost zero options over here to purchase this kind of gear. I believe my Elite is only one of four Elites in the entire country. Compare that with hundreds in the US and that's why you never see them for sale over here. Those hot spots on the supply PCM just might have something to do with running the whole console off one supply if it was designed for two. Probably not real great for the transformer, either.... Just a thought. That's what I suspected when I first saw them. Once I get it back together I'll power it up in stages and monitor the current draw and possible voltage drop.
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 14,934
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Post by ericn on Jul 16, 2017 11:12:19 GMT -6
From what little info I can find about the Audio Kinetics (Mastermix) system, it was designed to work with log audio taper, and the electronics made the necessary conversion. My console was built in 1987, so I'm guessing this was one of the 'earlier' systems as Eric mentioned. Yep , most in Console aftermarket VCA systems were early on, moving fader ate the market at the upper level, integrated VCA systems in the middle, small companies couldn't compete at the bottom.
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Post by rowmat on Jul 16, 2017 18:42:19 GMT -6
From what little info I can find about the Audio Kinetics (Mastermix) system, it was designed to work with log audio taper, and the electronics made the necessary conversion. My console was built in 1987, so I'm guessing this was one of the 'earlier' systems as Eric mentioned. Yep , most in Console aftermarket VCA systems were early on, moving fader ate the market at the upper level, integrated VCA systems in the middle, small companies couldn't compete at the bottom. I'd really like to see a DAW midi to console VCA controller that allowed DAW session volume and mute automation to directly control an analog console's VCA's. I know this has been discussed by many, and there are compatibility issues with so many different systems, but it would be great. Jeff Steiger is supposed to be developing a system but it is standalone with its own VCA's and is connected to the insert points. While this is deifinatley useful I would like to be able to utilise the VCA's my console came with. AFAIK I think it was an Optifile system with the VCA fader boards manufactured by Neotek. Strangely there are no automation buttons at all on the faders apart from a VCA bypass switch so I assume all the control was done via the VCA computer.
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ericn
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Balance Engineer
Posts: 14,934
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Post by ericn on Jul 16, 2017 18:48:19 GMT -6
Yep , most in Console aftermarket VCA systems were early on, moving fader ate the market at the upper level, integrated VCA systems in the middle, small companies couldn't compete at the bottom. I'd really like to see a DAW midi to console VCA controller that allowed DAW session volume and mute automation to directly control an analog console's VCA's. I know this has been discussed by many, and there are compatibility issues with so many different systems, but it would be great. Jeff Steiger is supposed to be developing a system but it is standalone with its own VCA's and is connected to the insert points. While this is deifinatley useful I would like to be able to utilise the VCA's my console came with. AFAIK I think it was an Optifile system with the VCA fader boards manufactured by Neotek. Strangely there are no automation buttons at all on the faders apart from a VCA bypass switch so I assume all the control was done via the VCA computer. I understand and I feel you but being able to work with different consoles and long term support of various consoles is what killed almost all the aftermarket automation systems both moving fader and VCA Jeff & I have had that conversation.
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Post by rowmat on Jul 30, 2017 5:24:40 GMT -6
They say it always gets worse before it gets better 🤔
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Post by EmRR on Jul 30, 2017 7:25:19 GMT -6
A friend here had a Quad Eight for awhile that used linear VCA faders.
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Post by rowmat on Jul 30, 2017 15:08:04 GMT -6
A friend here had a Quad Eight for awhile that used linear VCA faders. That's what I thought VCA's typically used.
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Post by rowmat on Aug 9, 2017 16:12:31 GMT -6
I didn't like the crappy DIY black paint job on the Neotek's timber work so I decided to remove the paint and revert back to a more natural timber finish. Here's the Neotek sitting in the craters in Montreal, Canada before it was shipped to Australia. I found a guy who ran a kitchen renovation business who was happy to run the timber through his thicknesser (planer) Goodbye black paint! That's better! Much nicer than the black paint. Checking the result on the console prior to final sanding, Tung oiling and sealing.
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Post by wiz on Aug 9, 2017 16:47:07 GMT -6
oooh nice
cheers
Wiz
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 14,934
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Post by ericn on Aug 9, 2017 17:00:10 GMT -6
I didn't like the crappy DIY black paint job on the Neotek's timber work so I decided to remove the paint and revert back to a more natural timber finish. Here's the Neotek sitting in the craters in Montreal, Canada before it was shipped to Australia. View AttachmentI found a guy who ran a kitchen renovation business who was happy to run the timber through his thicknesser (planer) Goodbye black paint! View AttachmentThat's better! View AttachmentMuch nicer than the black paint. View AttachmentChecking the result on the console prior to final sanding, Tung oiling and sealing. View AttachmentI did some nice Zebrawood sides and a flat deeper meter bridge shelf for the DDA! I have a huge 1/4 round bit and the zebra wood to do the armrest!
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Post by adamjbrass on Aug 10, 2017 8:56:37 GMT -6
I really like working on Neotek consoles whenever possible. My tech Joe Hates working on Neotek Consoles whenever possible. We used to joke around with him and say, "Needatech" consoles loved him. hahaha. These things are popular in Boston. There are like, 20 of them around.
Good luck with yours!
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Post by rowmat on Aug 22, 2017 21:39:48 GMT -6
The early Elites have a hybrid wooden/aluminium frame which is not particularly rigid and tends to go out of whack overtime. The original armrest reinforcement was just some chipboard joined at 90degrees. This had sagged considerably in the middle. During the refurbishment I have reinforced the entire armrest with a 10 foot length of 3" x 2" x 1/4" aluminium angle which is screwed to the original wooden backing and then bolted to the console's timber ends. It has made a huge difference to the console's rigidity.
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Post by ragan on Aug 22, 2017 22:23:09 GMT -6
I didn't like the crappy DIY black paint job on the Neotek's timber work so I decided to remove the paint and revert back to a more natural timber finish. Here's the Neotek sitting in the craters in Montreal, Canada before it was shipped to Australia. I found a guy who ran a kitchen renovation business who was happy to run the timber through his thicknesser (planer) Goodbye black paint! That's better! Much nicer than the black paint. Checking the result on the console prior to final sanding, Tung oiling and sealing. Suuuch a good call. Goodbye rattle-can, hello oak!
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Post by rowmat on Aug 23, 2017 18:56:23 GMT -6
Be wary of GRS. I had huge issues with them getting my psu. Good initial contact then months and months and months of no contact whatsoever. I would get jim to build one like Eric said. I believe GRS went through a bad patch after the operator died in about 2014 and some ex staff and others kept trading under the GRS name but got into legal issues with the former owner's widow. Several key ex-staffers then bought the business name and inventory and operating as SST (Studio Systems Technologies) are manufacturing power supplies under the GRS name. AFAIK GRS is supposed to be back on track since the formal acquisition.
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Post by jrasia on Aug 24, 2017 9:12:51 GMT -6
Yes I hope they are back on track. Geoff and joe have always been a pleasure to deal with at GRS.
Are you getting a linear or switch mode psu for your neotek?
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Post by rowmat on Aug 24, 2017 11:49:49 GMT -6
Yes I hope they are back on track. Geoff and joe have always been a pleasure to deal with at GRS. Are you getting a linear or switch mode psu for your neotek? I was planning on a linear. What did you get?
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Post by jrasia on Aug 24, 2017 19:24:30 GMT -6
The one I got a few years ago was linear. I recently got another console and this time went with a SM. Geoff convinced me they've come a long way with SM technology recently and are on par with linears now. They are only slightly slightly noisier in the high band, but it's half the cost, more efficient, more amps in a smaller package, light weight and doesn't need big fans to cool it. Appearently the modules are easier to service as well. We'll see I guess
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Post by Martin John Butler on Aug 24, 2017 20:36:44 GMT -6
This is all way over my head, but good luck with it all Rowmat!
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Post by rowmat on Aug 24, 2017 20:47:23 GMT -6
The one I got a few years ago was linear. I recently got another console and this time went with a SM. Geoff convinced me they've come a long way with SM technology recently and are on par with linears now. They are only slightly slightly noisier in the high band, but it's half the cost, more efficient, more amps in a smaller package, light weight and doesn't need big fans to cool it. Appearently the modules are easier to service as well. We'll see I guess There seems to be a GRS hit piece doing the rounds of the forums which has different first time posters repeating the identical story without citing the original source.
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Post by rowmat on Aug 24, 2017 21:39:27 GMT -6
This is all way over my head, but good luck with it all Rowmat! I have no idea what you mean!
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Post by wiz on Aug 24, 2017 21:45:16 GMT -6
This is all way over my head, but good luck with it all Rowmat! I have no idea what you mean! View Attachment that's the engineer part of the term audio engineer 8) Cheers Wiz
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Post by rowmat on Aug 25, 2017 5:09:48 GMT -6
Reinforced armrest fitted to console.
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