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Post by Martin John Butler on Jul 24, 2017 20:00:15 GMT -6
I've done that once or twice and it worked fine. After seeing Billy Decker mention he uses the Waves L3 in the 2 bus I placed it last in the 2 bus and gave it a try, and it worked like a charm. It gives me some volume and keeps the level where I want it.
I have a gazillion Waves plugs I almost never use, but that one did what it was supposed to do without mucking up the tone if you didn't go too far with it.
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Post by Guitar on Jul 24, 2017 20:01:07 GMT -6
In 24 bit digital, you get foot room. In analog audio you get a lot of headroom/voltage, but less dynamic range? Different approaches for sure. A little tip I picked up, from making mistakes: I finally upgraded to the latest version of Cubase a few months back. If my 2-bus level is WAY TOO HOT, and I don't want to upset my balance, I can just apply a VCA fader 'group' to all of my tracks, pull them down 'symmetrically' with a single fader, and then delete the fader... ahh. Don't know if this applies to other DAWs or not. That way I can apply my normal compression, tape sims, etc, at the right levels ITB. One of my best weapons is to have a nice 2-bus chain. I do love slamming it like massivemastering said. But I also fantasize about deleting the last half of it, and sending it to a proper mastering engineer. I can only imagine what that would sound like.. Why not just pull the master fader down? It's floating point architecture. Brad No good reason. I just like to leave that fader at zero. Not sure if that's just habit or what. Probably that, haha.
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Post by Guitar on Jul 24, 2017 20:08:28 GMT -6
In 24 bit digital, you get foot room. In analog audio you get a lot of headroom/voltage, but less dynamic range? Different approaches for sure. A little tip I picked up, from making mistakes: I finally upgraded to the latest version of Cubase a few months back. If my 2-bus level is WAY TOO HOT, and I don't want to upset my balance, I can just apply a VCA fader 'group' to all of my tracks, pull them down 'symmetrically' with a single fader, and then delete the fader... ahh. Don't know if this applies to other DAWs or not. That way I can apply my normal compression, tape sims, etc, at the right levels ITB. One of my best weapons is to have a nice 2-bus chain. I do love slamming it like massivemastering said. But I also fantasize about deleting the last half of it, and sending it to a proper mastering engineer. I can only imagine what that would sound like.. PT has had VCA faders for what?? Probably a decade or so. Yes, your workflow is cool, and works great, eh? If you've already got automation written, leave the VCA in the session without deleting it. hahaha. That is a good point. I am just finally re-approaching automation in a serious way now that I have a motorized fader to use. Got to love dense threads like these to fill in the gaps.
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Post by noah shain on Jul 24, 2017 21:05:26 GMT -6
In pro tools the master fader is pre insert like a console. If you pull the master fader down you decrease the level to your compressor eq chain.
I suppose it's not an issue if you've already mixed yourself in to a corner.
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Post by BradM on Jul 24, 2017 22:58:34 GMT -6
In pro tools the master fader is pre insert like a console. If you pull the master fader down you decrease the level to your compressor eq chain. I suppose it's not an issue if you've already mixed yourself in to a corner. In Cubase you have both pre and post fader inserts you can use. Brad
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Post by noah shain on Jul 24, 2017 23:30:34 GMT -6
In pro tools the master fader is pre insert like a console. If you pull the master fader down you decrease the level to your compressor eq chain. I suppose it's not an issue if you've already mixed yourself in to a corner. In Cubase you have both pre and post fader inserts you can use. Brad Now there's a useful feature
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Post by ChaseUTB on Jul 25, 2017 2:36:33 GMT -6
In Cubase you have both pre and post fader inserts you can use. Brad Now there's a useful feature How long would it take us to remember each time that inserts A-E are pre fader and F-J are post fader ππ... Knowing PT, they will not make it easy like a simple switch between the Pre/ Post... It will have to complicated π€¦ββοΈ Pro Tools Master Fader: Speaking for myself, a master fader in my sessions are almost pointless... I really only use it for a different set of metering option from the other tracks in pt12.. cool feature... 99.9% of the time the master fader Stays at 0, no fade outs and insert a 3rd party meter plugin... Levels and Meters: Funny how different meters made to the same spec read material differently and show different rms/ peak/ lufs/ k system etc ... Always have a difference between the Brainworx Meter, Pro Tools, Ozone 5, Fab Filter Pro L meter readings so I try to average it out roughly, more importantly I use my ears, the mix will tell you when you are caving it in due to over processing..
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Post by EmRR on Jul 25, 2017 6:13:32 GMT -6
In pro tools the master fader is pre insert like a console. If you pull the master fader down you decrease the level to your compressor eq chain. I suppose it's not an issue if you've already mixed yourself in to a corner. In Cubase you have both pre and post fader inserts you can use. Brad Same with DP
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Post by Guitar on Jul 25, 2017 8:32:37 GMT -6
Why not just pull the master fader down? It's floating point architecture. Brad No good reason. I just like to leave that fader at zero. Not sure if that's just habit or what. Probably that, haha. I just remembered... the mix I was working on a few years ago, had a lot of pre-fader inserts going on. I had spent hours mixing before I realized the levels were too hot. That was back when I was on an earlier version of Cubase. Cubase only gives two post-fader inserts so that wouldn't have been enough. I ended up giving the band a slightly crunchy mix, but I got away with it because it was an explosive heavy kind of song. When Cubase released VCA faders with, I think it was version 8, I knew I wouldn't have to worry about that again.
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Post by noah shain on Jul 25, 2017 8:33:59 GMT -6
I swear I can hear a difference between master fader and no master fader in PT. Am I crazy? Is it dither or some such?
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Post by ChaseUTB on Jul 25, 2017 18:02:43 GMT -6
I swear I can hear a difference between master fader and no master fader in PT. Am I crazy? Is it dither or some such? Tdm systems Master Faders were fixed point architecture 48 bit and yes that was changed and you do not need one in your session.. They don't dither output anymore as well... in depth PDF explains below akmedia.digidesign.com/support/docs/48_Bit_Mixer_26688.pdf
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Post by noah shain on Jul 25, 2017 22:39:20 GMT -6
I swear I can hear a difference between master fader and no master fader in PT. Am I crazy? Is it dither or some such? Tdm systems Master Faders were fixed point architecture 48 bit and yes that was changed and you do not need one in your session.. They don't dither output anymore as well... in depth PDF explains below akmedia.digidesign.com/support/docs/48_Bit_Mixer_26688.pdfDoes this mean there USED TO BE a difference and now there isn't? I'm just holding on to the romantic notion of vintage PT master faders?π
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Post by ChaseUTB on Jul 25, 2017 23:51:09 GMT -6
Does this mean there USED TO BE a difference and now there isn't? I'm just holding on to the romantic notion of vintage PT master faders?π Hold away my friend, just please breathe in the process πππ Mmmm the vintage master fader provides warmth and analog mojo plus a 48 bit fixed architecture... Drive into the master fader for vinyl like distortion ls and clipping.. oh yes! hear the crack and sizzle and pop when you push into the red... Ahhhh sounds like audio bacon grease in a frying pan on the stove π‘ The face of the vintage 48 bit master fader when driven πππ
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Post by drew571 on Jul 26, 2017 9:37:03 GMT -6
i start mixes with the kick and snare hitting at around -10 on the 2bus. I never change the level of the fader on the 2 bus and find this give me enough headroom to work with throughout the song with worrying about clipping. by the end of the mix a loud section might be between -4 to -6 with an occasional peak above that but very rarely do I have to adjust channel levels later to bring everything down if I start at that point.
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Post by swurveman on Jul 29, 2017 8:48:08 GMT -6
I swear I can hear a difference between master fader and no master fader in PT. Am I crazy? Is it dither or some such? Tdm systems Master Faders were fixed point architecture 48 bit and yes that was changed and you do not need one in your session.. They don't dither output anymore as well... in depth PDF explains below akmedia.digidesign.com/support/docs/48_Bit_Mixer_26688.pdfChase, thanks for that informative pdf about the old Pro Tools mixer and how digital audio works in general. is there a similar pdf for how the new Pro Tools mixer works?
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Post by ChaseUTB on Jul 29, 2017 12:45:55 GMT -6
Chase, thanks for that informative pdf about the old Pro Tools mixer and how digital audio works in general. Β is there a similar pdf for how the new Pro Tools mixer works? Can look around for you guys and will let you know!
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Post by ChaseUTB on Jul 29, 2017 19:05:00 GMT -6
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Post by popmann on Jul 30, 2017 14:29:05 GMT -6
They will never post a new white paper, because even in the world of theoretical gnat fart sonics (sic) a 64bit float doesn't have as much footroom as their now 20 years old 48bit fixed (via 56bit accumulator chip) HD TDM mixers. I seem to remember if comes closer than 32bit float....but, still doesn't match the old 56bit accumulators. They need to "sell" the idea that newer is better even when it's objectively not.
They needed it in order to bridge into the native processing world, which has been the complaint with TDM all along (or at least towards the end of it's life)--the plug in DSP couldn't keep up with Moore's Law in consumer CPUs.....and to bridge a hardware mixer into software took far to many virtual IO connections.
Pretty sure it's since v11---TDM can run v10....and it, not being software will be 48bit fixed from 2001 to as long as it is still able to run. They discontinued support for it in v11--so from memory, that's going to be the start of the 64bit floating point mixer.
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Post by ChaseUTB on Jul 30, 2017 14:49:00 GMT -6
Like most things in audio ... to each his own.. 10.3.7 is the last PT 10 version to run RTAS (.dpm) and PT 10 was also the transition into aax32 and aax64... π
PT 11 was an audio engine re wrote going from DAE to AAE... PT 11 always 64 bit floating point plugin and master fader processing ...π€
Only way for PT 10 to run 48 point is on HD or HD Accel cards , quote below from Avid
" When running Pro Tools HD 10 on HD or Accel core cards the summing mix bus will revert to 48-bit fixed point (with 24-bit fixed point plug-in processing)."
In fact PT 9 native was the first implementation of 64 bit floating point summing before HD. I am not going to even go into discussion about which is better.. Neither will hinder the quality of your recording, mix, and or master... provided the pilot knows how to fly the plane ...ππ€
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