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Post by topshelfmg on Jun 19, 2017 3:19:56 GMT -6
Hey guys, I'm getting more and more mastering work, so I'm going to be slowly making upgrades to reflect that throughout the next year (as there is a LOT I want to get). Unfortunately, I don't have an unlimited budget, but I'm certainly trying to get some stuff I won't feel the need to outgrow for some time. Luckily, a lot of this will also work wonders for mixing as well, so it won't strictly benefit mastering gigs.
I'm starting with upgrading my monitor DAC and monitor controller... though I'd love the converter to have both AD and DA just for the added versatility. I know that I'm going to get the Dangerous Music ST as the controller.. cause I have really loved all of the Dangerous stuff I've tried out. Though having the DA and controller in one with the Grace Design 905 looks cool... if it doesn't compromise quality in comparison. I know we are talking relatively really subtle differences at this point also.
So conversion wise... in order, I'm considering:
Lynx Hilo Thunderbolt (it seems like great quality + the most flexible)
Dangerous Music Convert 2
Grace Design 905?
Maaaaaaybe the Antelope Pure 2, but that's probably at the bottom of the list right now
But I am up for recommendations! What am I missing? I'd love to keep the budget around $2,500 or less (including used prices) for the converter, but if I'm really sold I could possibly wiggle to around $3,000. Ideally, I'd love to put that extra $500+ towards the next purchase though. Lavry looks cool but I can't find a unit that is both AD and DA. I guess if the quality is that much superior though, I would consider a dedicated DA monitor converter... which might actually be more practical. Thunderbolt is a BIG plus, and a headphone amp would be really great as well, though the Dangerous Monitor ST headphone amp should just plenty. A great master clock built in would be great as well, but I don't mind buying an external if it comes down to it. It would still earn the unit bonus points though.
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Post by svart on Jun 19, 2017 9:16:47 GMT -6
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Post by ChaseUTB on Jun 19, 2017 14:56:04 GMT -6
I think monitors and the room are the most important when we talk Mastering. Definitely are more important than a dedicated DAC...
I would rather have ATC and my Apollo than say a avocet plus latte and 1031/ ns10/ other run of the mill monitor ...
Other wise I would go with a Crane Song Avocet for DAC or possibly a lynx hill for all in one AD and DA solution and then go with a Coleman or Dangerous Source since budget is of the essence...
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Post by topshelfmg on Jun 19, 2017 21:24:17 GMT -6
I think monitors and the room are the most important when we talk Mastering. Definitely are more important than a dedicated DAC... I would rather have ATC and my Apollo than say a avocet plus latte and 1031/ ns10/ other run of the mill monitor ... Other wise I would go with a Crane Song Avocet for DAC or possibly a lynx hill for all in one AD and DA solution and then go with a Coleman or Dangerous Source since budget is of the essence... Yep, I totally agree! I have my room treatment completely taken care of though (clouds and the whole 9 yards), and have decided on the Amphion Two18s with the Amp500 for the monitor upgrade. So the conversion and monitor controller is my next step. |
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Post by topshelfmg on Jun 19, 2017 21:29:24 GMT -6
Very cool. So these are converters you built? Do you have any dynamic range or THD+N specs for them? I know that's all to be taken with a grain of salt, but still something I'm typically interested in checking out. |
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Post by massivemastering on Jun 19, 2017 22:37:24 GMT -6
Crane Song Avocet. If not "right in the price range" it's pretty close... I have one of the older models -- The newer one is on my list.
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Post by jin167 on Jun 19, 2017 22:46:24 GMT -6
I'm using pure2 as my DA and lyra2 as my AD as well as my monitoring unit at the moment but when I have enough fund I'm getting a grace design m905. Best monitoring controller + DA in its price range in my opinion.
*I have a pair of Tyler D1x with SEAS Millennium tweetwers installed coming my way massivemastering. Can't wait to hear them!
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Post by topshelfmg on Jun 19, 2017 23:13:29 GMT -6
I'm using pure2 as my DA and lyra2 as my AD as well as my monitoring unit at the moment but when I have enough fund I'm getting a grace design m905. Best monitoring controller + DA in its price range in my opinion. *I have a pair of Tyler D1x with SEAS Millennium tweetwers installed coming my way massivemastering. Can't wait to hear them! Great to hear! Those Tyler's look incredible, I've been thinking about those as well vs the Amphions. What is the process of getting the new tweeters installed, and what is the cost? Also, the D1Xs are passive, correct? What amp are you going to go with? So do you think the M905 would be higher quality than the Dangerous Music ST paired with the Lynx Hilo Thunderbolt? |
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Post by jin167 on Jun 19, 2017 23:33:23 GMT -6
I'm using pure2 as my DA and lyra2 as my AD as well as my monitoring unit at the moment but when I have enough fund I'm getting a grace design m905. Best monitoring controller + DA in its price range in my opinion. *I have a pair of Tyler D1x with SEAS Millennium tweetwers installed coming my way massivemastering. Can't wait to hear them! Great to hear! Those Tyler's look incredible, I've been thinking about those as well vs the Amphions. What is the process of getting the new tweeters installed, and what is the cost? Also, the D1Xs are passive, correct? What amp are you going to go with? So do you think the M905 would be higher quality than the Dangerous Music ST paired with the Lynx Hilo Thunderbolt? Tyler offers a partial upgrade for all of his products so you can just ask him to put in whatever units you want to put in your speaker. I paid $400 to put in the millennium tweeters. They are passive speakers and I'm planning on using emotiva xpa 2 for the time being because I've heard that they are great for their price. Maybe I'll upgrade to something else when I can (or not if I'm happy with emotiva  ) I'm sure ST and Hilo are great but for the monitoring purpose, I think m905 is hard to beat from a functionality point of view. |
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Post by topshelfmg on Jun 19, 2017 23:33:31 GMT -6
Crane Song Avocet. If not "right in the price range" it's pretty close... I have one of the older models -- The newer one is on my list. Wow, I forgot about the Crane Song! That would certainly be more affordable than both a Dangerous Monitor ST and stand alone converter would be. Thanks for reminding me, I'm going to start doing some research and see how the conversion stacks up. Love the Dave Hill stuff... the next processor purchase I'm going to make is a pair of Dave Hill Titans for both mixing and mastering. Do you think he quality of the Avocet exceeds the quality of the Dangerous Monitor ST? And I'd be giving up an AD stage like a lot of the other converters have, but considering monitoring is what I'll be using it for 99% of the time... if it can square up with a Lynx Hilo (which it looks like it can), than this may be my best choice. |
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Post by topshelfmg on Jun 20, 2017 0:25:38 GMT -6
Great to hear! Those Tyler's look incredible, I've been thinking about those as well vs the Amphions. What is the process of getting the new tweeters installed, and what is the cost? Also, the D1Xs are passive, correct? What amp are you going to go with? So do you think the M905 would be higher quality than the Dangerous Music ST paired with the Lynx Hilo Thunderbolt? Tyler offers a partial upgrade for all of his products so you can just ask him to put in whatever units you want to put in your speaker. I paid $400 to put in the millennium tweeters. They are passive speakers and I'm planning on using emotiva xpa 2 for the time being because I've heard that they are great for their price. Maybe I'll upgrade to something else when I can (or not if I'm happy with emotiva ) I'm sure ST and Hilo are great but for the monitoring purpose, but I think m905 is hard to beat from a functionality point of view. Gotcha! So in that case, you would put in your order directly through Tyler, not one of his distributors? I very well may get a pair sometime down the line as my towers, and use the Amphions as my nearfields. I'm not familiar with the tweeter you're going with, is it one of his tweeters that's of higher quality or 3rd party? After getting the advice on here, I'm realllly considering the Crane Song Avocet IIA, or possibly the Grace. Since they are both self contained, and I believe both have optical / digital inputs, that may be my best get. And it'll save me about $1,000. I'm going to do some research on the Grace's conversion vs the Crane Song's conversion.... though I'm biased cause I love the Dave Hill stuff. |
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Post by jin167 on Jun 20, 2017 0:36:57 GMT -6
Tyler offers a partial upgrade for all of his products so you can just ask him to put in whatever units you want to put in your speaker. I paid $400 to put in the millennium tweeters. They are passive speakers and I'm planning on using emotiva xpa 2 for the time being because I've heard that they are great for their price. Maybe I'll upgrade to something else when I can (or not if I'm happy with emotiva ) I'm sure ST and Hilo are great but for the monitoring purpose, but I think m905 is hard to beat from a functionality point of view. Gotcha! So in that case, you would put in your order directly through Tyler, not one of his distributors? I very well may get a pair sometime down the line as my towers, and use the Amphions as my nearfields. I'm not familiar with the tweeter you're going with, is it one of his tweeters that's of higher quality or 3rd party? After getting the advice on here, I'm realllly considering the Crane Song Avocet IIA, or possibly the Grace. Since they are both self contained, and I believe both have optical / digital inputs, that may be my best get. And it'll save me about $1,000. I'm going to do some research on the Grace's conversion vs the Crane Song's conversion.... though I'm biased cause I love the Dave Hill stuff. Yes, I'm dealing with Tyler directly (he offers a good price on some of his speakers so make sure to ask!). Tweeters are made by SEAS (http://www.seas.no/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=367:e0011-06-t25cf002&catid=50:excel-tweeters&Itemid=360) which is the same company that makes the woofer units for Amphion speakers. As for the monitoring controller, go with whatever that suits your workflow. I rekon DA section of both Avocet and Grace is top notch and in the end, it all comes down to the ergonomics. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2017 1:21:44 GMT -6
Crookwood will also do you a nice custom solution. I have a combination 2 x DAC, ADC, monitor controller, VU meter, headphone amplifier, source/destination router etc., can volume match 4 digi and 4 analogue sources to within a quarter dB. Couldn't be without mine!
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Post by topshelfmg on Jun 20, 2017 2:46:26 GMT -6
Crookwood will also do you a nice custom solution. I have a combination 2 x DAC, ADC, monitor controller, VU meter, headphone amplifier, source/destination router etc., can volume match 4 digi and 4 analogue sources to within a quarter dB. Couldn't be without mine! That sounds like a great option. How does the price point and conversion quality / quality in general stack up to the other options that have been listed? I think it's awesome a router and VU meter was able to be built in in your case. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2017 3:31:05 GMT -6
I have a custom modified monitor controller with the extra conversion built in. 1u rack "brain" and single remote. Price was around GBP £2k shipped I think. Been in daily use for six years now. Unfortunately I have never pitted the conversion quality against anything, other than the prosumer Echo card I was using before, but I also haven't been tempted to try any others out. It totally nails it for me as an all in one solution to tie the whole studio together.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Jun 20, 2017 4:53:07 GMT -6
For my Mastering chain, I use the Svartbox out to hardware, Svartbox AD for capture, and a Tascam UH-7000 for my monitoring DA with a passive monitor controller. I'm really happy with this setup for not a ton of dough.
You can find the Tascam units in the $250 ballpark and they sound really good. I have a unit in the studio and one in my office, so it's pretty much the only DAC I listen through these days. It's worth plunking down a couple hundo to check OUT, IMO.
Also, the Svartbox is legit. If you don't need a unit with a fancy name on it, this thing sounds really good. Quick punchy bass with natural highs.
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Post by svart on Jun 20, 2017 7:35:09 GMT -6
Very cool. So these are converters you built? Do you have any dynamic range or THD+N specs for them? I know that's all to be taken with a grain of salt, but still something I'm typically interested in checking out. No specs per se. Dynamic range is greater than any other AD/DA I have, so beyond 120dB. THD/N is likely greater than reference design spec too, but I've never gotten it tested. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Jun 20, 2017 8:13:21 GMT -6
I think monitors and the room are the most important when we talk Mastering. Definitely are more important than a dedicated DAC... I would rather have ATC and my Apollo than say a avocet plus latte and 1031/ ns10/ other run of the mill monitor ... Other wise I would go with a Crane Song Avocet for DAC or possibly a lynx hill for all in one AD and DA solution and then go with a Coleman or Dangerous Source since budget is of the essence... Yep, I totally agree! I have my room treatment completely taken care of though (clouds and the whole 9 yards), and have decided on the Amphion Two18s with the Amp500 for the monitor upgrade. So the conversion and monitor controller is my next step. I haven't heard the greatest things about the Amphion amps. I bet you could find a used Bryston or Lexicon for similar or less. |
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Jun 20, 2017 8:53:11 GMT -6
The SVART box is going to be hard to beat one of the best sounding boxes you will find period, Amps Jim Williams modded Adcom GFA series, will hold its own against Krell, Rowland or anything else!
For mastering treat the room , treat the room, the monitoring system and rooom need to be able to reproduce 20HZ-20KHZ, you have to be able to hear it to fix it !
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Post by topshelfmg on Jun 20, 2017 15:48:12 GMT -6
Yep, I totally agree! I have my room treatment completely taken care of though (clouds and the whole 9 yards), and have decided on the Amphion Two18s with the Amp500 for the monitor upgrade. So the conversion and monitor controller is my next step. I haven't heard the greatest things about the Amphion amps. I bet you could find a used Bryston or Lexicon for similar or less. I was actually just talking to someone about this who said the same thing! They said I should get a Jim Williams modded Adcom 545 or 555 and it'll apparently smoke the Amphion amp and save me $1,300... |
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Post by topshelfmg on Jun 20, 2017 15:48:58 GMT -6
The SVART box is going to be hard to beat one of the best sounding boxes you will find period, Amps Jim Williams modded Adcom GFA series, will hold its own against Krell, Rowland or anything else! For mastering treat the room , treat the room, the monitoring system and rooom need to be able to reproduce 20HZ-20KHZ, you have to be able to hear it to fix it ! Gotcha, that's what I was just told as far as amps! Save a bunch of cash and get a Jim Williams modded Adcom 545 or 555 for a total of $500 after mods and it'll sound better. |
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Post by topshelfmg on Jun 20, 2017 20:26:46 GMT -6
But does anyone have any objections against the Amphion monitors themselves... minus the amps?
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ericn
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Balance Engineer
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Post by ericn on Jun 20, 2017 20:37:10 GMT -6
But does anyone have any objections against the Amphion monitors themselves... minus the amps? Amphions are great nearfield monitors, but not what I would consider a full range mastering speaker, find a used pair of B&W 801's. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Jun 21, 2017 9:25:10 GMT -6
Very cool. So these are converters you built? Do you have any dynamic range or THD+N specs for them? I know that's all to be taken with a grain of salt, but still something I'm typically interested in checking out. No specs per se. Dynamic range is greater than any other AD/DA I have, so beyond 120dB. THD/N is likely greater than reference design spec too, but I've never gotten it tested. You should get it tested. I'd love to see how it compares. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Jun 21, 2017 13:00:18 GMT -6
Think I'm going to try a Dangerous Convert 2
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