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Post by viciousbliss on Jun 12, 2017 14:43:55 GMT -6
I've redone my usual workflow again and thought I'd bring up 1176 usage. The redesign is basically just using bx_console on everything with the LPF turned off, not much of its compression, channel 1 or 1-2 on everything with the occasional exception, noise on, digital for everything except busses, stereo instrument tracks, and some pre-mixed instrumentals, some slight eq moves, and no gates. All analog saturation plugins removed except Tapedesk on tracks not recorded with tape, no busses. I find that putting a compressor before TapeDesk is better. Generally I'm turning off the mic pre and tolerance buttons and turning the record dial to about 3 o'clock. The only thing on the busses aside from bx_console are HG-2 Black Box and Vertigo VSC-2. Maybe pro-q2 as well. Before I almost always ran a CLA76 into a CLA2A. This time I ditched the CLA2A. It was bumping up some bassy frequencies that were hard to work with. I remembered that Fleming Rassmussen had said he ran the Metallica vocals into an 1176 and then to tape, so that's where I got the idea to try that. Much better.
Getting to the 1176 settings. I've always preferred the CLA76 Black over everything else. Just tried that new Overloud take on it. Very odd. The AnalogObsession Fetish was pretty different too. IK Black76 is not a favorite and that isn't changing now. The CLA76 just seems more ballsy and smooth compared to the others. I've tried the Softube FET before. It was pretty decent but not exactly what I wanted. Stillwell Rocket is kinda in the same boat, but a little too clean. The Slate versions weren't too bad but haven't tried them in a long time. PSP's Fetpressor is another I need to try. My go to setting used to be 4:1 with the attack at 1 and release at 7. Then I did some reading and end up using 20:1 with both things at 7 most of the time. That doesn't change with backing vocals. Although a lot of the time I will use the Blue CLA76 for backing vocals instead of black to give it some more excitement. BF76 was a lot better than I thought it would be. It's been a couple years but last time I used it, I thought it sounded pretty close to the CLA76 at times. Are there any other emus I'm forgetting?
Should also note that I did fader rides with Waverider, pretty much in its default settings where it's boosting low volume and cutting high volume stuff. Also did a lot of clip gain on some things. Anyone chain 2 1176s? It seems to work but I haven't really felt it was better. The only instrument I used an 1176 on is a snare. The CLA76 preset for a snare is a good starting point. All my latest sessions are not using any limiters. All the L1s and L2s are gone. If I used any other compressor plugins outside of 1176/VSC-2, it would be like an API2500 on drums and/or DBX160 on bass. I might be relying as much or more on Waverider, Black Box, clip gain, and Tapedesk to balance dynamics. I found that cranking a CLA76 could sound harsh or distorted in a bad way, so I looked to see what else could be done without it doing so much work.
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Post by rowmat on Jun 12, 2017 17:30:56 GMT -6
Not sure how the CLA 1176 plugin compares to the hardware version but I generally find our pair of Warm Audio 1176's too fast even at the slowest attack to emphasise the transient attack on drums. For parallel compression (all buttons in), vocals or bass they're fine but not for putting an edge on transients.
If you look at the advent of mutimiked, processed drums from the 1970's Valley People's Gain Brains, Kepex gates and DBX Comp/Limiters tended to dominate drum dynamics hardware. Later it was things like the SSL comp, Distressers etc.
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Post by Ward on Jun 12, 2017 20:56:45 GMT -6
The biggest difficulty you might find in trying to ascertain concise feedback and advice here is that you are mixing software emulation with actual hardware.
It doesn't always work as it isn't an exact science.
Plugins are like porno movies. Hardware is like the girl of your dreams (we can hope!) who loves you. It's a whole different level of feel.
JMHO
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jun 12, 2017 21:12:11 GMT -6
I have the CLA 1176's, the UAD 1176 plugs, and the Warm Audio WA76. I wouldn't dream of using a plug over the WA76, but on finished tracks, the CLA is my go to for bass and strummy acoustic guitars. The presets are really good, and easy to dial in from.
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Post by ChaseUTB on Jun 12, 2017 23:13:19 GMT -6
Twist knobs and push buttons til it sounds good?
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Post by mrholmes on Jun 13, 2017 3:43:58 GMT -6
Twist knobs and push buttons til it sounds good? Was my first impression too. Second impression was too many choices. The reason why I sold my UAD Quad PCi card is I am overequiped with great native plug ins. Talking the 1176 way of compression I also could throw in the internal ones in Logic 10. FET and Vintage FET. How many diffrent fets I need to get a job done. Slate, Logics one ... done.
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Post by M57 on Jun 13, 2017 4:37:28 GMT -6
How many diffrent fets I need to get a job done. Slate, Logics one ... done. I'm pretty much in the same place. I use my Warm Audio comps going in, but once in the box I stay there, if only for efficiency's sake. Between Logic, Slate, and maybe the MJUC every once in a while, I have all the functionality I need, and a range of color and transparency that is more than adequate.
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Post by mrholmes on Jun 13, 2017 9:50:09 GMT -6
How many diffrent fets I need to get a job done. Slate, Logics one ... done. I'm pretty much in the same place. I use my Warm Audio comps going in, but once in the box I stay there, if only for efficiency's sake. Between Logic, Slate, and maybe the MJUC every once in a while, I have all the functionality I need, and a range of color and transparency that is more than adequate. I still miss something for the LA2A department?? But see there is the Logic one not bad too. If I want more coloration I put an OT sim on output or I batch process the track with my 1073. I disagree big time with UAD that only they have great sounding plug ins. For sure they have the biggest marketing department. LOL
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Post by ChaseUTB on Jun 13, 2017 16:37:22 GMT -6
Slate has the biggest most aggressive marketing.. UA marketing to me is borderline deceiving when they say 100% authentic emulation... makes me want to say it's a plugin modeled from x device it's not an authentic emulation ( clone ) ... I don't get too hung up tho b/c the plugs from most companies are worlds better than they were in 2010... Plus I can demo everything 😎ðŸ¤
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Post by notneeson on Jun 13, 2017 16:55:06 GMT -6
I track with an 1176 in parallel on snare drum a lot of the time. Everything from the silver face jobs, to a vintage rev D. The compressed signal is always a tad less "open" sounding than uncompressed, but it has more "crack" or "body."
The "Dr. Pepper" setting is a pretty good place to start: attack control at 10 o’clock, the Release control at 2 o’clock, and 4:1. But then, a lot of the magic in the hardware version is in the input setting.
CLA76 gets used, but not with any special enthusiasm.
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Post by rowmat on Jun 13, 2017 17:30:20 GMT -6
I track with an 1176 in parallel on snare drum a lot of the time. Everything from the silver face jobs, to a vintage rev D. The compressed signal is always a tad less "open" sounding than uncompressed, but it has more "crack" or "body." The "Dr. Pepper" setting is a pretty good place to start: attack control at 10 o’clock, the Release control at 2 o’clock, and 4:1. But then, a lot of the magic in the hardware version is in the input setting. CLA76 gets used, but not with any special enthusiasm. I can easily emphasise the snare attack with Valley Gain Brains and Aphex Expressors etc. but not much the WA 1176's. I suspect their slowest attack is a lot faster than the claimed 800 microseconds (80 milliseconds). Anything above 20 milliseconds should be audible.
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Post by notneeson on Jun 14, 2017 8:57:00 GMT -6
I track with an 1176 in parallel on snare drum a lot of the time. Everything from the silver face jobs, to a vintage rev D. The compressed signal is always a tad less "open" sounding than uncompressed, but it has more "crack" or "body." The "Dr. Pepper" setting is a pretty good place to start: attack control at 10 o’clock, the Release control at 2 o’clock, and 4:1. But then, a lot of the magic in the hardware version is in the input setting. CLA76 gets used, but not with any special enthusiasm. I can easily emphasise the snare attack with Valley Gain Brains and Aphex Expressors etc. but not much the WA 1176's. I suspect their slowest attack is a lot faster than the claimed 800 microseconds (80 milliseconds). Anything above 20 milliseconds should be audible. Transient designer (I just have the plugin) is pretty great when you want to emphasize attack. The 1176 on snare thing, for me at least, is more about the tone the box imparts, which allows me to get closer to "sounds like a record."
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Post by adamjbrass on Jun 14, 2017 9:08:25 GMT -6
10 and 2, maybe.... listen to the attack, because its way too damn fast, tweezer the rel with super ears to control the center of the pancake, [in other words, the motion of the music]
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Post by rowmat on Jun 14, 2017 14:39:52 GMT -6
I can easily emphasise the snare attack with Valley Gain Brains and Aphex Expressors etc. but not much the WA 1176's. I suspect their slowest attack is a lot faster than the claimed 800 microseconds (80 milliseconds). Anything above 20 milliseconds should be audible. Transient designer (I just have the plugin) is pretty great when you want to emphasize attack. The 1176 on snare thing, for me at least, is more about the tone the box imparts, which allows me to get closer to "sounds like a record." We have the hardware SPL 4 channel Transient Designer however I generally tend to prefer the results I get from Valley Gain Brains/Kepex gates and Aphex Expressors etc for drum envelope/dynamics. I use the Transient Designer more for either salvaging something that was a fair bit off or some kind of effect. I find the Transient Designer can sound a bit like popcorn going off if you're not careful especially on kick drums. The recorded drum sounds I like tends to be from the 1970's to 1980's when Valley stuff was used a lot.
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kcatthedog
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Post by kcatthedog on Jun 15, 2017 6:49:42 GMT -6
one thing about 1176 compressors that may not be intuitive is that theinput setting and the ratio are positively correlated, just cus you set say 4:1 or 8:1 etc., doesn't mean that you actually get that much compression, you also have to insure the you increase the input to reach the next level of compression and do the reverse for lower levels.
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Post by Johnkenn on Jun 15, 2017 7:50:20 GMT -6
I sold my 1176s because I thought the UAD 1176 did everything I wanted them to. To me, they're the best emu out there. Tons of color and the attack and release knobs actually work. With snare I like to use it with slowest attack (or to taste) and fastest release. The. You can start slowly slowing down the release to adjust the amount of smack you want in the snare. That's really how I measure the quality of the plugs/hardware too. I found that the UAD was pretty damn spot on. I also have the CAPI 526. It's the most consistent gain reducer without artifacts that I've tried. It doesn't get hairy and gushy like an 1176, but the control is amazing.
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Post by Johnkenn on Jun 15, 2017 8:46:05 GMT -6
I would also say that I use an 1176 enough that just having a pair wouldn't be enough. It's a workflow killer to have to bounce 7 or 8 tracks through hardware.
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Post by ChaseUTB on Jun 15, 2017 22:34:45 GMT -6
I would also say that I use an 1176 enough that just having a pair wouldn't be enough. It's a workflow killer to have to bounce 7 or 8 tracks through hardware. I know, that's my biggest thing with HW, I want to be able to mix down without vibe shifting to print.. and you need multiples of each HW piece to accomplish this..
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Post by rowmat on Jun 15, 2017 22:38:48 GMT -6
Okay I screwed up with my microsecond to millisecond conversion.
The 1176's slowest attack is officially stated to be 800 microseconds which is still (by most limiter standards) a very fast 0.8 milliseconds.
Considering around 30 milliseconds is a fairly typically attack time for letting percussive transients through before limiting less than a millisecond is not going to allow anything much through.
The presence 1176's tend to impart has more to do with other factors than allowing the leading edge of transients to pass even at the slowest attack setting.
It would be interesting to mod an 1176 with a 100x attack option to slow down the attack time to something more useful.
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Post by ChaseUTB on Jun 15, 2017 22:43:00 GMT -6
Okay I screwed up with my microsecond to millisecond conversion. The 1176's slowest attack is officially stated to be 800 microseconds which is still (by most limiter standards) a very fast 0.8 milliseconds. Considering around 30 milliseconds is a fairly typically attack time for letting persuasive transients through before limiting less than a millisecond is not going to allow anything much through. The presence 1176's tend to impart has more to do with other factors than allowing the leading edge of transients to pass even at the slowest attack setting. It would be interesting to mod an 1176 with a 100x attack option to slow down the attack time to something more useful. 10msec and up IMO
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Post by rowmat on Jun 15, 2017 22:45:48 GMT -6
Okay I screwed up with my microsecond to millisecond conversion. The 1176's slowest attack is officially stated to be 800 microseconds which is still (by most limiter standards) a very fast 0.8 milliseconds. Considering around 30 milliseconds is a fairly typically attack time for letting persuasive transients through before limiting less than a millisecond is not going to allow anything much through. The presence 1176's tend to impart has more to do with other factors than allowing the leading edge of transients to pass even at the slowest attack setting. It would be interesting to mod an 1176 with a 100x attack option to slow down the attack time to something more useful. 10msec and up IMO 10milliseconds is about the minimum to be audible though I usually settle around 20-40 milliseconds depending on the requirement.
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Post by ragan on Jun 15, 2017 22:50:24 GMT -6
To each their own of course but I can't get anywhere near the even-ness, weight and depth of a proper hardware 1176 with any of the plugins.
They can sound so close in shootouts sometimes, even the ones I've done for myself, but trying to get a vocal to just float in the middle of the track, with weight and energy, I can't get close with the plugs, personally.
I mean, I still use them for stuff, but anywhere I can, I use the hardware. That means printing things for me, but I don't care, once I got a grip on what the hardware was bringing to the table, sonically, I don't consider it an option to not have it.
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Post by ChaseUTB on Jun 15, 2017 22:53:14 GMT -6
10milliseconds is about the minimum to be audible though I usually settle around 20-40 milliseconds depending on the requirement. Are you saying You can't hear the difference between 1msec Attack and 10msec attack? I am pretty sure you can, I am probably misunderstanding you 😀 I agree if we are talking - 1 Db then yes it will be way harder to hear regardless of attack! Re: Printing I don't mind ... just wish I had more HW so I could print on my terms!
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Post by rowmat on Jun 15, 2017 22:54:55 GMT -6
To each their own of course but I can't get anywhere near the even-ness, weight and depth of a proper hardware 1176 with any of the plugins. They can sound so close in shootouts sometimes, even the ones I've done for myself, but trying to get a vocal to just float in the middle of the track, with weight and energy, I can't get close with the plugs, personally. I mean, I still use them for stuff, but anywhere I can, I use the hardware. That means printing things for me, but I don't care, once I got a grip on what the hardware was bringing to the table, sonically, I don't consider it an option to not have it. I'm referring to WA-76's which I have a pair. Don't get me wrong, I like them alright but I think while they add presence and some hair they don't smack as hard as other comp/limiters.
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Post by rowmat on Jun 15, 2017 23:00:02 GMT -6
10milliseconds is about the minimum to be audible though I usually settle around 20-40 milliseconds depending on the requirement. Are you saying You can't hear the difference between 1msec Attack and 10msec attack? I am pretty sure you can, I am probably misunderstanding you 😀 I agree if we are talking - 1 Db then yes it will be way harder to hear regardless of attack! Soloing say a kick sure but by the time you put it in a busy mix much under 10millseconds will often get lost. 0.8 milliseconds ain't going to let much of anything through.
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