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Post by ChaseUTB on Jun 2, 2017 21:02:43 GMT -6
Hello RGO 🤠 I have on stage / Rockville monitor stands...  They have a thin layer maybe 1/4" - 1/8" thick of some type of rubber esque material that is supposed to perform this job already.. However my monitors resonate/ vibrate the stands especially lower frequencies synth pads and bass. Now the stands have rubber feet that meet the wood floor, would carpet help with these resonances? Is the stand being on wood floor vs carpet or concrete adding to these resonances? This is annoying for me obviously working in bass heavy genre! Seeing as I have stands already that don't have the best incremental adjustments something like the ISO acoustics may lead to issue being on top of a monitor stand and not getting the exact height I need. I have a few questions about Sorbothane hemispheres. Durometer value and how important this is? Some say use 30, some say 70 is best, does this depend on the weight of the monitor? Thickness of hemisphere and how this relates to decoupling? Some are .25"/ .5" , and 1". Some are 30, 50, or 70 duro. The higher the duro the more support of weight.. looking at these .25" thick , 1" diameter, 70 duro, 8 pack, 13-30 pounds. www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00X6R47N0/ref=pd_aw_sim_60_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=15RDVEVVMPKCS4ZD22JT&dpPl=1&dpID=81V0LIndPXLMy Monitors are 15lbs a piece. Eventually My New Monitors will be 23 lbs a piece, so I figure one set of 8 for my current monitors and add another set of 8 (+ one package ) when the new monitors happen.. Also I see round flat hemispheres and half egg shaped sorbothane discs, I assume the flat are more geared for what I am employing them for? Finally how does Sorbothane Hemispheres compare to : IsoPads Recoil Stabilizer IsoAcoustics stands ( that would be kind of weird tho, 2 stands ) Any other product I may have missed ? |
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ericn
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Balance Engineer
Posts: 14,934 
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Post by ericn on Jun 2, 2017 21:36:17 GMT -6
Over the years I have learned Heavy mass loaded stands do far more than any decoupling isolation devices, on the cheap cut some large PVC pipe to length, glue on some screw flanges bolt some boards and fill with sand !
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Post by ChaseUTB on Jun 3, 2017 4:54:31 GMT -6
@superwack thank you so much ericn thank you, I have stands and with my health sorbothane seems a little easier to " build " 😆 SuoerWack, You are absolutely correct 22.5 lbs and they are hS8! I accidentally wrote the height as the weight 😂. So ( 22.5) 23 / 4 = 5.75 lbs per hemisphere being active... Ok, got it 1 in each corner, 4 total, and softest duro the best! And yes the Master Stacks are on the way 😆 Haha right My new monitors are the Barefoot FootPrints 👣 Ok so you got me again! I screwed up both of the weights of the monitors.. My new monitors will be 35 pounds each 🤘😬🏋️ So 35 / 4 = 8.75 lbs per hemisphere .... Each hemisphere for example will say 5-10 lbs or 4-8 lbs... Is the best weight the average or just in between that weight range ? . So if I can find 30 duro rated say 5-10 / 7-12 pounds per ( if that is correct ) does the height or diameter of the hemisphere matter? Found these 30 Duro 😀👇 4 pack 7-12 pounds per pad 1.75 ( has my monitors in the pics lol ) www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B071F1K7BJ/ref=mp_s_a_1_12?ie=UTF8&qid=1496486468&sr=8-12&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_QL65&keywords=30+duro+sorbothane+hemisphereDoes the flat part of the hemisphere go against the monitor stand and sphere up or sphere down and flat part goes against the bottom of the monitor ? |
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Post by swurveman on Jun 3, 2017 8:20:48 GMT -6
FYI: I was told by the acoustician who set up my mix area not to decouple NS10's. He said they work best directly on the bridge and that the desired bass response depends upon it. I have no idea if that's true, but there it is.
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Post by stormymondays on Jun 3, 2017 8:25:40 GMT -6
I had the exact same setup. The first thing I'd recommend is to get dry silica sand and fill them up, the base and the tube. It'll take quite a while to fill the triangles but it can be done. You'll have to seal the bottom sides of the pole. I used Sugru but Blutak, or some tape, will do. This will increase the mass, not by a whole lot, but it will also prevent the pole from resonating. I was also going to go the sorbothane route but in the end I got Primacoustic recoil stabilizers. After all that I decided that the stands were a bit too flimsy for my taste, so I got a carpenter to make me custom wooden stands!  |
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Post by jeremygillespie on Jun 3, 2017 11:28:10 GMT -6
All this reading is hurting my head. I got the Primacoustics and haven't looked back.
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Post by ChaseUTB on Jun 3, 2017 15:02:22 GMT -6
stormymondaysThanks! How did you get the stands to stay filled up? How much did custom stands cost and how is the difference between what I have and you now have ? Do you decouple the monitor from the stand ? @superwack It looks like the 30 duro would be best. They are rated 7-12 pounds. The average is 9.5 pound per hem. so the monitor being 35 pounds should theoretically be just right. However like you said the stands are not the " sturdiest " however have served me well even when fat ass people bump into them. Thought Sorbothane would be a good sufficient solution that doesn't break the bank.. Now I am rethinking new stands, however that is the most expensive solution.. Would carpet help the resonanting or affect the sound negatively? The stands do have rubber feet but they are on wood floor, however I don't feel the floor is what I am hearing. I feel like Stormy said it's the plate ( stand ) and the pole...
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Post by NoFilterChuck on Jun 4, 2017 0:24:34 GMT -6
turn down your speakers?
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Post by stormymondays on Jun 4, 2017 4:16:14 GMT -6
stormymondays Thanks! How did you get the stands to stay filled up? How much did custom stands cost and how is the difference between what I have and you now have ? Do you decouple the monitor from the stand ? I filled everything patiently (triangle and pole) via the screw holes, with a funnel. You'll need someone to help you. The pole doesn't have a hole at the bottom, although I needed to tape the sides a bit. I did decouple with the Primacoustic Recoil, which is kinda expensive. It also adds mass to the stand, which is a good thing! Custom stands were pricey. I made a design similar to these www.zaorstudiofurniture.com/classic/monitor-stand/ and had a local woodworker make them. I figured out it was a lifetime purchase. One thing that could help is if you could find some affordable stands that have two poles instead of one, or that are already designed to be filled with sand. |
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Post by ChaseUTB on Jun 4, 2017 11:39:12 GMT -6
I use the K system and have my monitor controller set at 85db C weighted And 78db C weighted. I use 85dbC for mixing and 78dbC for mastering. This is based on The Katz System, Bob Katz is a mastering engineer. The stands can resonate a few ways not just during mixing certain parts of a song but also on synth pads during production when synth pads may peak around -12 to -8 Db when sifting thru loud ass synth patches. Even at 78 Db C weighted this happens. If the music was that loud I wouldn't hear the resonating 😆🤘 |
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Post by ChaseUTB on Jun 4, 2017 11:56:40 GMT -6
@superwack Awesome thanks again for the feedback. I know my stands aren't the best lol! I figured if I was having some small issues now they might be amplified with more powerful monitors. I will give the sorbothane hemisphere a shot! Does the flat part of the hemisphere go on the stand and the half sphere part against the monitor? stormymondaysThanks man. That seems like some work and wow that stands are epic... Thisnreslly kinda slipped my mind until the other day lol and I started looking at the stands like wow he had to have help fill this or he had a great plan! Thanks |
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Post by NoFilterChuck on Jun 4, 2017 12:21:51 GMT -6
I use the K system and have my monitor controller set at 85db C weighted And 78db C weighted. I use 85dbC for mixing and 78dbC for mastering. This is based on The Katz System, Bob Katz is a mastering engineer. The stands can resonate a few ways not just during mixing certain parts of a song but also on synth pads during production when synth pads may peak around -12 to -8 Db when sifting thru loud ass synth patches. Even at 78 Db C weighted this happens. If the music was that loud I wouldn't hear the resonating 😆🤘 Lol I know who Bob Katz is. 85db is loud as hell. If you can't talk over it, it's too loud. Now get off my lawn, you crazy kids!!!  |
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Post by ChaseUTB on Jun 4, 2017 15:11:41 GMT -6
I use the K system and have my monitor controller set at 85db C weighted And 78db C weighted. I use 85dbC for mixing and 78dbC for mastering. This is based on The Katz System, Bob Katz is a mastering engineer. The stands can resonate a few ways not just during mixing certain parts of a song but also on synth pads during production when synth pads may peak around -12 to -8 Db when sifting thru loud ass synth patches. Even at 78 Db C weighted this happens. If the music was that loud I wouldn't hear the resonating 😆🤘 Lol I know who Bob Katz is. 85db is loud as hell. If you can't talk over it, it's too loud. Now get off my lawn, you crazy kids!!! Chuck there is now way I could talk over your tuba playing 🤠🎷 I would have to leave the room! The music is never full scale unless listening to parts of final mastering passes or referencing, even then the controller is 6db ( 78 Db C ) down for the extra level Masters have. I'm glad you know who Bob Katz is, many do not know so I was merely sharing the basis of why I monitor at what levels and how I learned. I was not belittling you in any way 🤠💯 Have a great day 🤘 |
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Post by wiz on Jun 4, 2017 16:35:49 GMT -6
I think from memory, the 85dB figure Katz quoted was in really large rooms with mains... I think around 78-82 is more appropriate for near fields... but each to their own...
cheers
Wiz
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Post by donr on Jun 4, 2017 17:01:13 GMT -6
Chase, I have the same stands. They don't rattle, but I have Primacoustic pads between the speakers and the stands. Are all the bolts tight on stands?
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Post by ChaseUTB on Jun 4, 2017 17:12:12 GMT -6
OVU= 85 DB SPL C Weighted Vs 0VU = 79DB SPL C Weighted 🤠 www.aes.org/technical/documentDownloads.cfm?docID=65To quote AES : "For the highest sound quality, digital multitrack recording engineers should always use K-20, and if the mix is going to be later mastered, stick with K-20 for the mixdown. Save K-14 for the calibrated mastering suite." ( what I said above ) " Using K-20 assures a clean-sounding mix with some “meat” that the mastering engineer can grab onto when he gets the tape or file. " " It would seem intuitive to have a single button that changes the meter scale and monitor gain, but this makes it difficult to illustrate to engineers that K-14 really is louder than K-20. " "Recognize that each “lower” meter scale requires more dynamic range compression than the preceding higher version. For example, translating material mixed in a large theatre using K-20 to use in the home with K-14 will probably require about 6 dB compression. To look at it another way, the average program level may have to be raised 6 dB to accomodate the smaller, noisier venue and home equipment with less headroom. " " Operators may personally desire to run their monitors slightly hotter or lower than the standard, but realize that the equal-loudness contours imply their mixes will be bass-shy or bass heavy when reproduced at the calibrated level. Individuals who prefer to listen off the standard should find their ideal monitor gain point, log it on the box, and try to use it consistently. " |
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Post by ChaseUTB on Jun 4, 2017 17:23:44 GMT -6
Chase, I have the same stands. They don't rattle, but I have Primacoustic pads between the speakers and the stands. Are all the bolts tight on stands? Funny you mention that 😀 They were loose, the bolt that goes thru the metal pole just kind of spins freely but at a certain point gets a little taught. Left it like that. The twist knob I tightened as much as I could. Somehow the wood floor is warped so the stand isn't flush on the ground which I believe is attributing to some of the resonances. Very sporadic non patterned and certain frequencies excite the resonances. How do the prime acoustic pads helped? Worth the $? Do you experience any resonances? I am using HS8 Yamaha 23 pound monitor, with Around 125-150 watts however my new monitors are 35 pounds and 650 watts a piece and am afraid if this is an issue now it really will be an issue soon... |
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Post by donr on Jun 4, 2017 18:08:58 GMT -6
>How do the prime acoustic pads helped?
I've had the Primeacoustic pads for a while after hearing an a/b demo of monitors on them at NAMM. They clean up the image and tighten the bass compared to not using them.
Those Rockville stands are a great value but they're not so sturdy that they can't be augmented. The speaker platform is just a steel stamping with rubber so damping it with something else makes sense. I've got a Focal CMS65 and JBL 305 on each stand at the moment, on top of the Primacousitic pad. I strapped the speakers together with gaffer tape to make sure they don't fall off, they're right on the edge of the pads. I use them switched with a Coleman Audio line switcher and a Monoprice 10" sub. The stands don't rattle, even at full volume.
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