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Post by ChaseUTB on Jul 2, 2017 21:56:19 GMT -6
I decided to buy the new SSL channel and the old UA 610A as my two unison preamps of choice. Could have waited and saved even more money, but whatever, just went for it. I just didn't feel that the Neve and API were quite there, compared to my CAPI and SCA. Rather spend more money on more of those. The 88RS sounded muddy on drums, the 1073 always loses shootouts for me, I know the API 512 and 312 so well that imitation is not so close for me. My use right now is SSL (jensen transformer model) on drum set for that clean sparkle, and UA 610A on bass DI for that thick "tube" sound. Gotta say, I'm pretty happy with my choices. Also the SSL channel is just absolutely killer for mixing. I was amazed at what I could do with my kick drum mic with a little EQ and compression all from the same plugin. It's just one of the best channel strips out there, in my opinion. I'm not even using Pro Q2 as much as I used to. Not UAD, but that free SieQ I got from SoundToys has been getting some work lately too. Love the saturation knob, wish it had a simple output trim for level matching. I am still on the lookout for the best native, non UAD Neve 1073 or 1084 plugin. I would happily take any advice on that! Before I do my own shootouts. It's not something I really use much anyway, but it's just right for some things, sometimes. Waves Scheps 73 Sonimus Burnley Eq Ik multimedia has one Slate
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Post by mjheck on Jul 3, 2017 8:15:55 GMT -6
Funny - I was just writing a friend about the various comparables of digital Neve flavors.
I actually find the Unison 1073 to be closest to my analog stuff (provided I have the EQ in, really push the gain and dial back the output) so my opinion may not be useful to you, but here is where I land:
• Kush Omega N - I like what this does to low mids and tend to use it on keys * Airwindows Channel 4 (Neve setting) - this one seems to remove extra frequencies, kind of hi-pass, low-pass, without much thickening; I like this on acoustic guitars • Nebula - there are lots of Neve samples in this world - they tend to add harmonics in the upper mids to my ear - vocals, back vocals, electric guitars, etc. • Tokyo Dawn Labs - they have a "British" curve that has some of the harmonics - less close than the others, but a more manipulatable EQ curve
On the plus side, all of these are very inexpensive or free depending on the specific person/company/version. This may be completely useless for you, but it's how I've tried to address adding nonlinearities while still having things sound like they are from the same family.
MJH
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Post by Guitar on Jul 3, 2017 10:31:35 GMT -6
Funny - I was just writing a friend about the various comparables of digital Neve flavors. I actually find the Unison 1073 to be closest to my analog stuff (provided I have the EQ in, really push the gain and dial back the output) so my opinion may bot be useful to you, but here is where I land: • Kush Omega N - I like what this does to low mids and tend to use it on keys * Airwindows Channel 4 (Neve setting) - this one seems to remove extra frequencies, kind of hi-pass, low-pass, without much thickening; I like this on acoustic guitars • Nebula - there are lots of Neve samples in this world - they tend to add harmonics in the upper mids to my ear - vocals, back vocals, electric guitars, etc. • Tokyo Dawn Labs - they have a "British" curve that has some of the harmonics - less close than the others, but a more manipulatable EQ curve On the plus side, all of these are very inexpensive or free deepening on the specific person/company/version. This may be completely useless for you, but it's how I've tried to address adding nonlinearities while still having things sound like they are from the same family. MJH Thanks, that is useful, the only one of those I have demo'd is the Omega N. While it does sound pretty cool, it doesn't do EQ. I just set up a little shootout in my DAW between IK Multimedia EQ73, Steven Slate FG-N, Waves Scheps and VEQ3, Sonimus Burnley 73, and the UAD Neve 1073. Unfortunately, or maybe I'm wiser now? None of them sounded good except the UAD. All of the other ones destroyed the fidelity in some way or another. Just totally f'ed up harmonics, bass bumps, hollow mids, whatever it was. Even with closely matched settings, they all sounded VERY different. The UAD Neve, not only was it the only one I could see myself using, but it sounded pretty darn good. It did not destroy the image of the tracks, even with fairly heavy knob turning. So in some paradoxical way, it was the most transparent of the color EQ's of the whole lot. I guess that explains why I've avoided in the box 1073 for so long... they just all sound so bad and wrong, until I finally heard the UAD. I've got about 2 days left to decide to pick it up for $179, or will have to wait till Black Friday for the big blowout prices. Not sure if my Quad DSP can really handle the new SSL and the Neve at the same time anyway. If I had to slum it and just scrape by with something really accessible, I'd probably pick one of the Waves and just get on with it. Waves may not win a lot of shootouts, but they have a knack for staying out of the way and being relatively inoffensive sounding, compared to many other vendors.
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Post by Johnkenn on Jul 3, 2017 21:49:41 GMT -6
Acustica Gold has three different Neve eqs. And it sounds fantastic.
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Post by kcatthedog on Jul 4, 2017 3:34:58 GMT -6
When you talk about whether the quad can handle the two unison pres, remember for tracking the on board apollo dsp is used by chip and you only have one unison slot per channel. You should be able to run 4 unison pres:one per channel while tracking.
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Post by kcatthedog on Jul 4, 2017 3:47:41 GMT -6
Ps one stereo instance of neve 73 uses 67% and ssl is 70% of a chip.
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Post by kcatthedog on Jul 12, 2017 18:13:09 GMT -6
Btw they posted the results on the ua forum and divulged the blind test:interesting results
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Post by mjheck on Jul 12, 2017 21:31:33 GMT -6
I've owned vintage 1066's, GTQC's, an early Joel Cameron 1272 based stereo pre, a ton of RND stuff (though it really is a different flavor) and currently use a Silver Bullet extensively,
I don't mind saying I only got about half right on this.
It's not like I don't use the Unison 1073 a lot. I like it, but still - I figured I could tell the difference more easily.
Go figure.
Of course, I'm also an idiot, so you have to factor that in as well.
MJH
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Post by guitfiddler on Jul 12, 2017 21:43:40 GMT -6
Will we ever get around the heavy cost to use their software? I need at least 8 sharc chips, but to use 8 preamps with their interface all unison, it can't be done without at least 8 to 12 chips. You might want to use some comp, eq, verb or delay when tracking with those 8 unison preamps. Does it still have the limitation of just the one Apollo at 4 sharc chips active for two linked Apollo quad's? Just curious
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Post by kcatthedog on Jul 13, 2017 2:36:05 GMT -6
for tracking or mixing ?
The 8p splits 1 sharc between 2 channels so the onboard 4 supports unison on 8 and I recall reading you can just run 8 neve 73 for tracking ?
Current apollo is limited to 4 sharcs.
I have seen sales on 8p's and used ones too that plus n Octo gives you 12 sharcs for mixing.
I wonder if an apollo mkiii is too far off with more on board processing ?
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Post by guitfiddler on Jul 13, 2017 4:06:56 GMT -6
for tracking or mixing ? The 8p splits 1 sharc between 2 channels so the onboard 4 supports unison on 8 and I recall reading you can just run 8 neve 73 for tracking ? Current apollo is limited to 4 sharcs. I have seen sales on 8p's and used ones too that plus n Octo gives you 12 sharcs for mixing. I wonder if an apollo mkiii is too far off with more on board processing ? Tracking
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Post by kcatthedog on Jul 13, 2017 7:19:49 GMT -6
So only onboard Apollo chips are available for tracking, so the 8p would be your best option and it gives you 4 sharcs for mixing.
Also, if you have OB pres, if you use the trs insert(combo jack), on board pre is bypassed and signal goes direct to converter for best sound.
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Post by kcatthedog on Jul 13, 2017 8:49:13 GMT -6
Ps if you are running multible apollos:each's respective dsp is available for tracking channels that run through them.
So, 3 8p's could have 24 channels in console with ua plugs up to their instance and sharc division limitations. None 8p apollo/twins would have 1 sharc chip dedicated to each input channel: so 1:1 for tracking , ganged for mixing.
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Post by wiz on Jul 13, 2017 15:58:59 GMT -6
Hey kcatthedogSo, lets say I wanted to replace all my gear with Apollo. Highest track count for me is 6 at once, so lets build in some headroom there and say 8. I need Line outputs, at least a pair for monitors, a pair for outboard processing, a pair for external headphone amplifiers, so say 6. If I wanted to track with UNISON preamps, and record at 48Khz, what would I need? What would change if I wanted to go to 96Khz? cheers Wiz
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Post by kcatthedog on Jul 13, 2017 17:16:10 GMT -6
So for tracking, the apollo black face has 4 pres, so 4 unison (1-4) and 5-8 have no pres. It still has its 2 extra line outputs so as fab says 8 plus 2 , so that takes care of your monitor outs, and , you have 2 pairs left over,so you are good with a stock apollo, It wouldn't matter what sample rate between 44.1, 88.2 or 96: you just set it in the Apollo console gui. If you want more than 4 unison pres, at a time, then you either need an 8p which give you 8 unison pres but splits onboard sharc chips in half so half per channel, whereas the basic apollo 8 (above) has 1 dedicated sharc chip per channel for 4. Or you can get the basic apollo and a twin and gang them over tbolt but that would be just 6 unison pres but all would have a dedicated chip. If there is any possibility of needing 10 with unison then an 8p and a twin would do the trick. This would add add more dsp and you could use the twin when traveling. Do you have a satellite now ? Apollo i/o: 8 first, 8p second, twin 3rd
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Post by wiz on Jul 13, 2017 17:30:33 GMT -6
So for tracking, the apollo black face has 4 pres, so 4 unison (1-4) and 5-8 have no pres. It still has its 2 extra line outputs so as fab says 8 plus 2 , so that takes care of your monitor outs, and , you have 2 pairs left over,so you are good with a stock apollo, It wouldn't matter what sample rate between 44.1, 88.2 or 96: you just set it in the Apollo console gui. If you want more than 4 unison pres, at a time, then you either need an 8p which give you 8 unison pres but splits onboard sharc chips in half so half per channel, whereas the basic apollo 8 (above) has 1 dedicated sharc chip per channel for 4. Or you can get the basic apollo and a twin and gang them over tbolt but that would be just 6 unison pres but all would have a dedicated chip. If there is any possibility of needing 10 with unison then an 8p and a twin would do the trick. This would add add more dsp and you could use the twin when traveling. Do you have a satellite now ? Apollo i/o: 8 first, 8p second, twin 3rd I have nothing now.... Its just I never see this sort of question answered easily. So how do i get 8 unison preamps at tracking? with the outs I mentioned.? cheers Wiz
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Post by kcatthedog on Jul 13, 2017 17:50:37 GMT -6
The bf apollos now have combo jacks which don't play so nice with patchbays, but you would simply plug in your 8 mikes or what ever to the back of the apollo 8P (1-8), open the apollo console gui, instantiate the unison plug in of your choice in the top spot in each channel strip in the gui (it is dedicated to only unison plugs), next 4 per channel 2-5) are everything but can't control the unison pres. Set your levels and basically punch record.
In unison mode the front rotary when pressed in cycles between channels and once in a channel, if you hold it done for about 3 seconds, it lets you cycle through the functions of the unison pre within each channel, ( there are itel lights in the pre gui in your daw to orient you) so you can either control the unison pre from your daw with our mouse and keyboard or from the rotary on the front of the apollo.
For mixing you would have to disconnect the inputs and then reconnect your line.
But if you got two apollo 8's, you would double the i/o adn double on board dsp but still have 8 unison pres and could leave your outboard connected all the time through your patchbay.
The apollo console gui would simply see all the i/o and you just set it up like you want for your session ?
Hope that makes sense ?
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Post by Guitar on Jul 13, 2017 18:18:14 GMT -6
Btw they posted the results on the ua forum and divulged the blind test:interesting results The interesting result for me was that I only got one wrong, and largely preferred the hardware. That said, I love my new and old UAD plugins, I wouldn't want to mix ITB without them.
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Post by ragan on Jul 13, 2017 18:41:59 GMT -6
So for tracking, the apollo black face has 4 pres, so 4 unison (1-4) and 5-8 have no pres. It still has its 2 extra line outputs so as fab says 8 plus 2 , so that takes care of your monitor outs, and , you have 2 pairs left over,so you are good with a stock apollo, It wouldn't matter what sample rate between 44.1, 88.2 or 96: you just set it in the Apollo console gui. If you want more than 4 unison pres, at a time, then you either need an 8p which give you 8 unison pres but splits onboard sharc chips in half so half per channel, whereas the basic apollo 8 (above) has 1 dedicated sharc chip per channel for 4. Or you can get the basic apollo and a twin and gang them over tbolt but that would be just 6 unison pres but all would have a dedicated chip. If there is any possibility of needing 10 with unison then an 8p and a twin would do the trick. This would add add more dsp and you could use the twin when traveling. Do you have a satellite now ? Apollo i/o: 8 first, 8p second, twin 3rd I have nothing now.... Its just I never see this sort of question answered easily. So how do i get 8 unison preamps at tracking? with the outs I mentioned.? cheers Wiz An 8P would give you 8 unison pres for tracking. And 8 dedicated line outs as well as 2 more monitor outs and 2 more headphone outs.
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Post by kcatthedog on Jul 13, 2017 18:49:05 GMT -6
ya wiz scratch what I said about needing to re patch your OB with the 8p.
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Post by wiz on Jul 13, 2017 18:55:48 GMT -6
I have nothing now.... Its just I never see this sort of question answered easily. So how do i get 8 unison preamps at tracking? with the outs I mentioned.? cheers Wiz An 8P would give you 8 unison pres for tracking. And 8 dedicated line outs as well as 2 more monitor outs and 2 more headphone outs. thanks does it have enough Sharc chips to run 8 1073s or the other preamps though? thats the thing... cheers Wiz
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Post by kcatthedog on Jul 13, 2017 19:02:09 GMT -6
I recall hearing about this being tested and an 8p could run 8 73
Right now ua has a crazy plug in deal with new apollos so maybe crunch the numbers for 1 8p or 2 apollo bf's. If you think you might want to track with more than just the one unison pre per channel, you might be happier with the 2 apollo 8s and a dedicated chip for channel for 8 unison pres plus other ua plugs for tracking (e.g., la2a, 76) ?
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Post by kcatthedog on Jul 13, 2017 19:08:50 GMT -6
From ua instance chart
UAD POWERED PLUG-IN DSP % SOLO DUO QUAD OCTO Mono Stereo Mono Stereo Mono Stereo Mono Stereo Neve 1073 * 40.1% 67.6% 2 1 4 2 8 4 16 8
so yes 8 mono instances with an apollo 8p quad
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Post by wiz on Jul 13, 2017 20:15:11 GMT -6
Thanks.. that's what I wanted to know
Cheers
Wiz
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Post by indiehouse on Feb 22, 2018 10:04:02 GMT -6
Came across this and found it interesting:
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