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Post by sozocaps on Jun 15, 2017 20:58:06 GMT -6
Blind, drunk, and ears ringing I could pick the real over the digital on vox all day long... I still want to hear the comparison with the mic into each preamp without a damn transformer in front of both as it takes all the load off the pre and totally shapes the sound.
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Post by ChaseUTB on Jun 15, 2017 22:38:51 GMT -6
Blind, drunk, and ears ringing I could pick the real over the digital on vox all day long... I still want to hear the comparison with the mic into each preamp without a damn transformer in front of both as it takes all the load off the pre and totally shapes the sound. Great political answer... since you can pick the real gear file, I am interested in your picks.. Please share I am about to go listen now and share my thoughts 🤠
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Post by ChaseUTB on Jun 15, 2017 22:40:19 GMT -6
Link says no thread specified.
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Post by javamad on Jun 16, 2017 1:58:54 GMT -6
No probs was just curious as one can control ua unison pres and plugs in real time with the rotary controller so was wondering if someone had done some serious multi tracking? I have a faderport 8 from which you can map ua plug control but I also have the softube console 1 and it's 3 channel strips and you can certainly be tweaking multiple parameters with both Hands so that future is here now. it's like real ob but I think the real ob still feels more immediate ? I am building a one-room studio with 2 x Apollo 8's. I intend to start off tracking with the 8 Unison pre's (plus an Audient ASP880 if I need more than 8 inputs). I will create a thread here with audio examples and info on the whole set up ... but we're still painting and making acoustic panels so it could be a couple of months before I get to it
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Post by kcatthedog on Jun 16, 2017 5:30:31 GMT -6
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Post by swurveman on Jun 16, 2017 7:46:42 GMT -6
I listened to the vocal comparison. Vocal B has more low mid information. At around the 22 second mark when the singer comes close to either overdriving the mic or the preamp, B sounds less harsh.
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Post by ChaseUTB on Jun 17, 2017 16:39:15 GMT -6
I listened to the vocal comparison. Vocal B has more low mid information. At around the 22 second mark when the singer comes close to either overdriving the mic or the preamp, B sounds less harsh. I agree that Vox B is less harsh, Also, why would one over drive/ clip a Unison preamp? I mean Unison cannot emulate nonlinear distortion from class A amplifiers that are overdriven. Also Vox A was louder ... Vox A - Apollo Vox B - Real The mic files I felt A was more open and a little brighter or B was more mellow and more balanced, but not in a good way, it felt a little blanketed like some detail was lost. Mix A - Real Mix B - UAD That's all i got time for now, off to cook the little one dinner 😎
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Post by ChaseUTB on Jun 17, 2017 17:26:30 GMT -6
Response from Jacquire in regards to tracking/ mixing with HW vs Plugins
"Commit To Sounds I try to EQ and shape sounds to be as close as I think I can get in tracking and then do what is needed in mix to bring it all together. Most of the time it's smaller moves to get things to fit together for a mix but there are always exceptions. I mainly use hardware for recording and plugs for mixing. Plugs are not as good at extreme use as hardware so get it close on the way in and finesse on the way out. I like Neve, API, & Quad8 for recording and always have... classic compressors and EQs..."
" Outboard mix gear I have for the last year and a half mixed primarily ITB because it's good enough now and I wanted to get better at it. I have recently after moving my studio and having a better setup started to use outboard while mixing... The most place that I find the most benefit is on the stereo sum of the mix with analog EQ and compression... it's possible to get something comparable ITB but definitely takes more experimentation "
When asked the biggest difference between mixing itb vs hybrid/ analog JK says .. " Biggest differences are in getting good parallel compression to build up in a punchy but still open feeling way ... Saturation to be a full and smooth sounding... The stereo image is not as wide and full automatically... I would say in the end it's the mix bus that needs the most experimentation (ITB) to find a processing chain that will glue it all together compared to what the analog would be, in that I find my analog stereo bus signal chain is more flexible and able to be used more flexibly... Plugins do not allow as much change or manipulation to where they still sound as good as the analog equivalent "
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Post by adamjbrass on Jun 20, 2017 9:16:50 GMT -6
I have a Pluto plate and have compared to the UAD plate. The difference is about 6.5 feet, and around 75 to 100 LBS
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Post by Johnkenn on Jun 20, 2017 10:06:48 GMT -6
I have a Pluto plate and have compared to the UAD plate. The difference is about 6.5 feet, and around 75 to 100 LBS Damn...
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Post by cowboycoalminer on Jun 23, 2017 7:49:04 GMT -6
I can hear a slight difference but I actually prefer the UA on every take. The hardware is slightly rolled off to my ear, more compressed maybe which is normal. But the sound I usually go for is more toward the UA. Nice comparison. Thanks for sharing Wiz.
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Post by illacov on Jun 23, 2017 8:18:40 GMT -6
Regardless of said tests, in application, the hardware pres, compressors and EQs (at least in my experience and some privately shared opinions by other insiders) get used far more aggressively than most assume. The extremes or later 3rds of analog equipment are still off limits in my opinion. Cleaner music styles or aesthetics where clarity is the ideal tend to benefit the most from high fidelity approaches. I mean if you did a test on a cleanish pop record where the digital/ITB was clear and the analog was darker and thumpier then the analog mix would be ruled out immediately because it was inappropriate for the genre. Especially since it would be a failure on someone's part in the process to do anything except go as clean as possible and at optimum for music that we expect to be clean and have way less overall character. That to me is more of an operating principles than a digital vs analog issue. **** I was just talking with a buddy about Steely Dan Aja, how they used Rane mic pres on some of the tracks. Now of course analog studio, analog tape and Roger Nichols plus Steely Dan et al. But that's one clean record for it's time and it's perfect like that. ****
But the same test on something like an Al Green recording? Or Radiohead? Percy Sledge?
The real battleground still lies in genres that benefit from distortion, aggressive tones and heavier aesthetics. That's what I'd like to see most.
Like a Portishead Dummy inspired shootout. Or a gut bucket funk shootout.
Thanks -L.
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Post by swurveman on Jun 23, 2017 8:30:05 GMT -6
I have a Pluto plate and have compared to the UAD plate. The difference is about 6.5 feet, and around 75 to 100 LBS Are you still an authorized dealer of the Pluto Plate?
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Post by adamjbrass on Jun 23, 2017 8:39:24 GMT -6
Yes I am, we are about to ship the next one,
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Post by swurveman on Jun 24, 2017 8:10:07 GMT -6
Yes I am, we are about to ship the next one, Really? Why would somebody buy something so big and heavy if it is no different than a plug in sound wise?
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Post by adamjbrass on Jun 24, 2017 8:59:36 GMT -6
Yes I am, we are about to ship the next one, Really? Why would somebody buy something so big and heavy if it is no different than a plug in sound wise? I would never agree this product sounds "no different than a plug in"...if that is what you got from my above post I am sorry...But perhaps you mis understood my comments. The Pluto sounds wider and denser than the UAD, by the measurements I stated above. How could a 4x8 Sheet of Cold Rolled Steel, Inside a Large Box sound the same as an Emulated Software Program? Its not. The Emulated one has a different size and feel within the mix. Sound wise, the Pluto is in a whole different universe than the UAD plug in.
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Post by swurveman on Jun 24, 2017 12:35:37 GMT -6
Really? Why would somebody buy something so big and heavy if it is no different than a plug in sound wise? I would never agree this product sounds "no different than a plug in"...if that is what you got from my above post I am sorry...But perhaps you mis understood my comments. The Pluto sounds wider and denser than the UAD, by the measurements I stated above. How could a 4x8 Sheet of Cold Rolled Steel, Inside a Large Box sound the same as an Emulated Software Program? Its not. The Emulated one has a different size and feel within the mix. Sound wise, the Pluto is in a whole different universe than the UAD plug in. Sorry if I misinterpreted your comment. So, unless I'm misunderstanding you, even though UAD claims they expertly emulated the EMT 140, the "emulating" wasn't up to snuff. Here are the dimensions between the two hardware plates BTW: PlutoLength - 8 feet Height - 4 feet Depth - 12 inches Weight - 270 Lbs EMT 140Length- 91"= 7 1/2 feet Height- 49" 4 feet Depth-12 inches Weight - 375 Lbs
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Post by ChaseUTB on Jun 24, 2017 22:11:18 GMT -6
Did the files get revealed? Edit * No they want to drag it along even tho no one seems to really care. Only saying that cuz Gannon said four days ago a couple more days to get more votes but there hadn't really been more...
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Post by adamjbrass on Jun 26, 2017 8:15:42 GMT -6
I would never agree this product sounds "no different than a plug in"...if that is what you got from my above post I am sorry...But perhaps you mis understood my comments. The Pluto sounds wider and denser than the UAD, by the measurements I stated above. How could a 4x8 Sheet of Cold Rolled Steel, Inside a Large Box sound the same as an Emulated Software Program? Its not. The Emulated one has a different size and feel within the mix. Sound wise, the Pluto is in a whole different universe than the UAD plug in. Sorry if I misinterpreted your comment. So, unless I'm misunderstanding you, even though UAD claims they expertly emulated the EMT 140, the "emulating" wasn't up to snuff. Here are the dimensions between the two hardware plates BTW: PlutoLength - 8 feet Height - 4 feet Depth - 12 inches Weight - 270 Lbs EMT 140Length- 91"= 7 1/2 feet Height- 49" 4 feet Depth-12 inches Weight - 375 Lbs Actually, the Pluto is more towards 320 LBS... But anyway, yes I personally feel when I compared the UAD to my Pluto [with a $2600 Solid State Preamp] that the UAD was small sounding. For the amount of DSP it uses....it should sound better. There is nothing that I have found that runs with a real large sized mechanical analog plate. Although there are a lot of DIY Plates that sound bad and the UAD would be better than those for sure.
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Post by guitfiddler on Jun 26, 2017 19:49:49 GMT -6
I sold my Apollo, when I did my comparison in my room.
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Post by javamad on Jun 28, 2017 0:31:30 GMT -6
I sold my Apollo, when I did my comparison in my room. I'm curious, was the Apollo the core of your setup? Or just an addition that you don't think matches other analog gear? What is your setup now?
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Post by guitfiddler on Jun 29, 2017 5:26:34 GMT -6
I sold my Apollo, when I did my comparison in my room. I'm curious, was the Apollo the core of your setup? Or just an addition that you don't think matches other analog gear? I tried both and preferred the sound of it clocking off my apogee converters with Dangerous D-box What is your setup now? Apogee 16X/Lavry The Apollo sf just sounded flat and lifeless to me. There wasn't any bloom or feeling to the music, like a loss of dynamics and headroom. I'm not bashing UA, it's a cool product, but I already had my setup and it was more of an experiment to see if it was my cup of tea. I would love to eliminate all my outboard, save space and money on the utilities. I even tried other DAWs to see what kind of effect that would make. I did a lot of experimenting and ended up right where I started years ago, I'm sure a lot of people here can relate to this. I hate the chase, you really don't know until you hear it for yourself. I have listened to people's opinions online for years and tried all kinds of different setups and gear. It got me away from the real thing of being a creator and musician constantly looking for something to increase sound quality. There was a day when I could push up a fader and everything sounded right, add a little verb and it was almost done. When the daw came out I absolutely hated it at first. The vibe and sound changed in a way that just didn't connect with me. I have been looking at the bf Apollo to see how much UA improved it, but for my personal goals, I need to focus more on writing and creating than gear for now. I like gear though, and that is why I'm here. There are some great talents here and I look to always improve my game anyway I can.
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Post by Guitar on Jun 29, 2017 8:34:16 GMT -6
I heard some pretty big differences in the clip shootout poll on the UAD forum. Put in my guesses, but they still haven't said what's what.
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Post by javamad on Jun 30, 2017 0:51:16 GMT -6
I'm curious, was the Apollo the core of your setup? Or just an addition that you don't think matches other analog gear? I tried both and preferred the sound of it clocking off my apogee converters with Dangerous D-box What is your setup now? Apogee 16X/Lavry The Apollo sf just sounded flat and lifeless to me. There wasn't any bloom or feeling to the music, like a loss of dynamics and headroom. I'm not bashing UA, it's a cool product, but I already had my setup and it was more of an experiment to see if it was my cup of tea. I would love to eliminate all my outboard, save space and money on the utilities. I even tried other DAWs to see what kind of effect that would make. I did a lot of experimenting and ended up right where I started years ago, I'm sure a lot of people here can relate to this. I hate the chase, you really don't know until you hear it for yourself. I have listened to people's opinions online for years and tried all kinds of different setups and gear. It got me away from the real thing of being a creator and musician constantly looking for something to increase sound quality. There was a day when I could push up a fader and everything sounded right, add a little verb and it was almost done. When the daw came out I absolutely hated it at first. The vibe and sound changed in a way that just didn't connect with me. I have been looking at the bf Apollo to see how much UA improved it, but for my personal goals, I need to focus more on writing and creating than gear for now. I like gear though, and that is why I'm here. There are some great talents here and I look to always improve my game anyway I can. For me the Apollo is a starting point. I am spending $$ on the room and microphones at the moment. (and paint! ) I fully expect to spend money on real preamps and outboard in the near future as I grow into the space because to be honest I just like knowing that I can follow traditional workflows like the albums I love from a few decades ago. Meanwhile it's saccharin instead of real sugar
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Post by Guitar on Jul 2, 2017 16:26:57 GMT -6
I decided to buy the new SSL channel and the old UA 610A as my two unison preamps of choice. Could have waited and saved even more money, but whatever, just went for it.
I just didn't feel that the Neve and API were quite there, compared to my CAPI and SCA. Rather spend more money on more of those.
The 88RS sounded muddy on drums, the 1073 always loses shootouts for me, I know the API 512 and 312 so well that imitation is not so close for me.
My use right now is SSL (jensen transformer model) on drum set for that clean sparkle, and UA 610A on bass DI for that thick "tube" sound.
Gotta say, I'm pretty happy with my choices. Also the SSL channel is just absolutely killer for mixing. I was amazed at what I could do with my kick drum mic with a little EQ and compression all from the same plugin. It's just one of the best channel strips out there, in my opinion. I'm not even using Pro Q2 as much as I used to.
Not UAD, but that free SieQ I got from SoundToys has been getting some work lately too. Love the saturation knob, wish it had a simple output trim for level matching.
I am still on the lookout for the best native, non UAD Neve 1073 or 1084 plugin. I would happily take any advice on that! Before I do my own shootouts. It's not something I really use much anyway, but it's just right for some things, sometimes.
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