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Post by c0rtland on May 27, 2017 19:31:14 GMT -6
Running Mac Pro 6core 64 gig ram 1t ssd
4 tb raid 0 Tb external 7200
Logic 10.3.x
OS X 10.12.x
Symphony mk1 16X16 via thunderbridge.
Project is about 25 tracks. 441/24 minimal plugins. 64 buffer setting
I chatted with apogee for 5 hrs yesterday.
Called logic support today.
The problem occurs during mixing.
My mix template is something like this.
Audio tracks. Some with sends to aux's with i/o utility. Some with I/o utility on the audio tracks.
All those tracks get bussed to aux's with the outputs routed to the symphony outs.
I'm monitoring on 1-2 on an audio track record enabled.
I get glitchy playback when I do the final routing out. Not when I use the I/o utility by itself.
If I select all the final busses and go stereo out no glitch.
If I send all final busses to a single output I get glitches on even numbered outputs, not odd numbered outputs.
I've tried everything I can think of. Bypassed the thunderbridge and used USB, same thing.
If I change buffer higher or lower in logic glitches gets worse.
Any ideas? I've been having this problem for a longtime and have just tried to work around it but I'm really really really getting fed up.
I thought I was taxing my symphony 24x24 so I got another one. Same thing. The new one is connected now. It's a refurbished mk1 bought from the apogee online store.
I'll try anything at this point.
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Post by swurveman on May 27, 2017 19:35:32 GMT -6
Man, I feel for you Mac guys. Here's a total system designed for smooth running on a Mac -thunderbolt/Logic- and it doesn't work smoothly. Good luck with getting this resolved.
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Post by jcoutu1 on May 27, 2017 20:03:03 GMT -6
Running Mac Pro 6core 64 gig ram 1t ssd 4 tb raid 0 Tb external 7200 Logic 10.3.x OS X 10.12.x Symphony mk1 16X16 via thunderbridge. Project is about 25 tracks. 441/24 minimal plugins. 64 buffer setting I chatted with apogee for 5 hrs yesterday. Called logic support today. The problem occurs during mixing. My mix template is something like this. Audio tracks. Some with sends to aux's with i/o utility. Some with I/o utility on the audio tracks. All those tracks get bussed to aux's with the outputs routed to the symphony outs. I'm monitoring on 1-2 on an audio track record enabled. I get glitchy playback when I do the final routing out. Not when I use the I/o utility by itself. If I select all the final busses and go stereo out no glitch. If I send all final busses to a single output I get glitches on even numbered outputs, not odd numbered outputs. I've tried everything I can think of. Bypassed the thunderbridge and used USB, same thing. If I change buffer higher or lower in logic glitches gets worse. Any ideas? I've been having this problem for a longtime and have just tried to work around it but I'm really really really getting fed up. I thought I was taxing my symphony 24x24 so I got another one. Same thing. The new one is connected now. It's a refurbished mk1 bought from the apogee online store. I'll try anything at this point. If the problem occurs during mixing, why not just increase the buffer? |
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Post by c0rtland on May 27, 2017 20:06:01 GMT -6
Changing buffer doesn't help. It gets worse the higher I go actually.
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Post by jcoutu1 on May 27, 2017 20:10:16 GMT -6
Weird. I'm in PT, but basically keep my buffer set to the max at all times and it's good. Your machine smokes mine too.
I'm running a rMBP, quad i7, 16GB, SSD. Probably have 50ish tracks in the mix in doing. Fair amount of plugs (buncha verbs, delays, etc). No issues here. Gotta be something wonky going on with the machine.
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Post by Martin John Butler on May 27, 2017 20:57:33 GMT -6
I know much less than most of the guys regarding Mac tech, but I suspect something's wrong with the computer itself. I blamed everything but my old computer for issues I had for years. Only when I finally upgraded did they all vanish. You've got a tank there, but perhaps something's just not right with it. Good luck.
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Post by ChaseUTB on May 27, 2017 23:56:17 GMT -6
Sorry to hear of your troubles..
Are you routing out the Symph outputs to a console? Why do you route the subgroups to physical outputs? Is there anyway you are trying to route out of an output that is being used by the I/o utility plug for round trip HW processing?
You say when you route everything to one stereo audio track that's record enable, you can work without glitches and print your mix without glitches? Can you print that mix, then mute the other audio and route to another track and print the drum sub group?
I don't work in logic but have worked in it before but not for routing only production.
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Post by jampa on May 27, 2017 23:59:15 GMT -6
Yep I get something stupid on my MacBook Pro and Apogee Duet. Will be mixing a session then once it gets too busy (higher CPU load or something), the Apogee will randomly starting glitching the playback.
If it happens, I stop the playback (because it sounds like sh;t), go to the Maestro control panel, and click M (for mute). I then click M again (to unmute) and then press play. This sometimes makes the glitches go away. Otherwise I repeat this process a few times until it goes away. Stupid right?
But I mainly use my RME UFX.....
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Post by matt on May 28, 2017 1:40:49 GMT -6
Running Mac Pro 6core 64 gig ram 1t ssd 4 tb raid 0 Tb external 7200 Logic 10.3.x OS X 10.12.x Symphony mk1 16X16 via thunderbridge. Is your Symphony on the latest firmware? Apogee claims that you need to be on it for OS X Sierra compatibility. I went through hell updating mine, tried 5 times before the upgrade completed. But I got it to work on 10.12 even though they warn you to update using 10.10 or earlier. |
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Post by mrholmes on May 28, 2017 2:43:42 GMT -6
Long time logic user here.
If you monitor your consoles, or something else, output via software monitoring in logic this will allways call for trouble. You can read this in all logic manuals, you can do it but it calls for trouble because it eats a lot off the cpu power.
You need to monitor via a good monitor controler not via software monitoring in logic!!!
Also check your buffer size, set it to 1024.
Check your settings for multi thetering set them to live, than switch back check what happens on logics cpu meter.
I bet my left leg your problem is software monitoring.
Disable the record button check how the cpu meter changes.
Also keep in mind the more routings and sends you use the more cpu is used.
Logic is a little bit a special kind of old audio engine but they get better with every mayor upgrade.
In mixing make sure your active audio track is an empty one with output set to no output, this can force logic to spread the power on all cpu kernals.
If you monitor via the host software, I guess this calls for trouble in every mayor native working DAW.
Last check if your apogee drivers are up to date, check if your apogees firmware is the correct one for the drivers....
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Post by c0rtland on May 28, 2017 4:34:25 GMT -6
So I'm using a dbox. How would I set that up differently to avoid software monitoring? Right now I'm have a spidf coming out my of my apogee into the dbox.
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Post by kcatthedog on May 28, 2017 4:48:52 GMT -6
Perhaps a wild card , but are you sure all your i/o labels are set up correctly ?
This would be tedious, but what if you muted everything and then ran the session adding one channel at a time and see what happens ?
I wonder if you have just one fault which is actually the culprit ?
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Post by mrholmes on May 28, 2017 7:06:14 GMT -6
So I'm using a dbox. How would I set that up differently to avoid software monitoring? Right now I'm have a spidf coming out my of my apogee into the dbox. My English is not good enough to speak / write in technical terms. Maybe someone, who is also owning a d-box, can pick it up to the next level I will try... 1. Switch off software monitoring. 2. You take the summing of the d box direct to the monitor outs of the d-box from there the signal goes to the monitors. I do not own the d-box but it should be possible with it otherwise I don't understand their idea of the 8 ch summing mixer. 3. Do your mix. 4. Only if you want to track your summing you need to activate an input in Logic which you don't monitor internal - you switch software monitoring off for this. If I watch the back panel of the d-box it all is very logical to me I would never come to the idea to use it with software monitoring. I don't see a reason for this.  When mixing is done you track the sum output.... |
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Post by mjheck on May 28, 2017 7:44:28 GMT -6
The only time I experience this anymore is if I have high CPU plugs downstream of the IO plug -
specifically something like Nebula R2R and Tape Booster, or a couple of Fab Filter with upsampling in series.
This has happened with the IO plug on busses, the the heavy hit plugs on the two bus.
Shot in the dark...
MJH
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Post by kcatthedog on May 28, 2017 8:08:53 GMT -6
Doesn't that suggest you are blowing through some latency threshold?
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Post by mjheck on May 28, 2017 8:19:52 GMT -6
I would assume so, especially since bufffers are already maxed.
I found it easier to just not press the matter by finding different routing, lower CPU alternatives, etc.
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Post by c0rtland on May 28, 2017 15:00:36 GMT -6
I figured it out with your help!!!!
So.
When I changed the multithread selection in logic to PLAYBACK vs playback AND LIVE tracks IT DISSAPEARED.
I don't really know the difference between these two settings but my computer don't like live track multithreading apparently.
So relieved. Thanks for everyone that replied. This was a long road for me.
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Post by mrholmes on May 28, 2017 15:36:37 GMT -6
I figured it out with your help!!!! So. When I changed the multithread selection in logic to PLAYBACK vs playback AND LIVE tracks IT DISSAPEARED. I don't really know the difference between these two settings but my computer don't like live track multithreading apparently. So relieved. Thanks for everyone that replied. This was a long road for me. I still don't get the point why you use Softwaremonitoring with a D box? |
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Post by c0rtland on May 28, 2017 15:59:15 GMT -6
I figured it out with your help!!!! So. When I changed the multithread selection in logic to PLAYBACK vs playback AND LIVE tracks IT DISSAPEARED. I don't really know the difference between these two settings but my computer don't like live track multithreading apparently. So relieved. Thanks for everyone that replied. This was a long road for me. I still don't get the point why you use Softwaremonitoring with a D box? I guess I didn't know there was a better way to do it. I still don't really understand another way to do it. Btw I'm not using the dbox for summing most of the time. I feel like I set it up the way they instructed when I got it and just left it that way since it worked. I'm finding a lot out by troubleshooting this whole thing. |
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Post by mrholmes on May 28, 2017 19:34:28 GMT -6
I still don't get the point why you use Softwaremonitoring with a D box? I guess I didn't know there was a better way to do it. I still don't really understand another way to do it. Btw I'm not using the dbox for summing most of the time. I feel like I set it up the way they instructed when I got it and just left it that way since it worked. I'm finding a lot out by troubleshooting this whole thing. If you only want to monitor logics two bus output 1-2 its easy. Take two cabels from output 1-2 of your converter and connect them to anolog input L R of the d box. Connect your main monitors to speaker main output. For your hardware use the I/O plug in. Dont forget to switch off software monitoring... happy mixing itb with hardware plug ins withot the SM CPU hog. I do it several times a week and it works flawles except that I dont use a d-box or an Apogee converter. Pure fun is if you own a patch bay for the hardware... |
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