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Post by Martin John Butler on May 24, 2017 9:50:39 GMT -6
I've read so many stories regarding both minor and major changes in U47's, 67's, C12's, and others over the years they were made. How can we ever settle on a benchmark sound? I'm curious if you guys have benchmark references. I'd love to collect a few classic U47, M49, U67, C12, AKG 414, and ELAM 251 tracks as references.
I use Lyle Lovette's "Road to Ensenada" as my benchmark U67 vocal mic reference, but don't have a classic U47 reference. Can you guys suggest a benchmark U47 track I might use?
I'm guessing this is a U47, but have no idea:
I know this is a U47, but it's so processed, it could be any good mic.
I think this is a 414:
Not great examples, I know, but it's a beginning.
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Post by jeremygillespie on May 24, 2017 11:14:28 GMT -6
This is the black M49 you sang through Martin.
Prototype Helios channel strip - pre, eq, and compressor
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Post by jeremygillespie on May 24, 2017 11:27:53 GMT -6
This is the u47 you tried out, UA610 into a distressor on 10:1 opto just kissing the Gr meter.
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Post by c0rtland on May 24, 2017 11:41:36 GMT -6
Slightly off topic. But I recently read somewhere they exclusively used m49's to record kind of blue.
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Post by Martin John Butler on May 24, 2017 11:59:15 GMT -6
That's not off topic c0rtland. That's cool to know if it's true. I' mainly looking for vocal mic references, but they're all good.
Thanks Jeremy! I'm running out for an hour and will listen as soon as I get back.
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Post by Martin John Butler on May 24, 2017 12:03:49 GMT -6
Gave them a brief listen on headphones before I go out. Even with the doubled vocals, I like that 47. I'd love to know of a classic U47 male vocal track. Anywhere from Sinatra to Merle Haggard to Coldplay would be cool, if it featured the vocal.
I wish I could post an mp3 here. I'd like to post The Road to Ensenada, but Soundcloud won't allow it because of copyright issues, and youtube doesn't have the original track posted.
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Post by Guitar on May 24, 2017 20:31:48 GMT -6
I wouldn't go by music video shoots for studio mic choice. Also I would add the U87 to this list. And maybe the SM7 and SM58.
For a 251 vocal I might suggest Beck's "The Golden Age."
For a U47 vocal I might suggest Thom Yorke's 'Eraser' album, along with the Radiohead album 'In Rainbows' for example the track, "Nude."
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Post by Martin John Butler on May 24, 2017 20:47:29 GMT -6
Thanks Monkeyxx. I'll check out the Beck track tomorrow. That's exactly the kind of suggested benchmark I was looking for. Of course, a benchmark U87 sound could be helpful too, but in my case, I used an 87 for so long its tone is in my musical DNA, and I personally don't need an 87 benchmark.
Curious if theU47 mics in the video were the actual ones in this Merle Haggard/Willie Nelson session. I think they were.
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 14,817
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Post by ericn on May 24, 2017 21:11:53 GMT -6
90% of the time any video was shot with the studio as a set dressed by a set designer. So anything I see on film or video I consider as accurate an indication of what was used as a gear ad!
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Post by donr on May 24, 2017 21:18:19 GMT -6
I might have said this before, but I saw a video once where a gal was singing into the back of a Shure 55sw.
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Post by Guitar on May 24, 2017 21:22:03 GMT -6
I might have said this before, but I saw a video once where a gal was singing into the back of a Shure 55sw. The more chrome, the better! That is the classic mic for this purpose.
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Post by Martin John Butler on May 24, 2017 21:30:39 GMT -6
I get the feeling they just did it where they did it, and those were likely the mics they used, but of course, who knows.
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 14,817
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Post by ericn on May 24, 2017 21:31:58 GMT -6
I might have said this before, but I saw a video once where a gal was singing into the back of a Shure 55sw. Hey that could have been a real demo at GC!
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 14,817
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Post by ericn on May 24, 2017 21:34:55 GMT -6
There was a whole season of one of the CSI shows where a Mackie control is on the desk backwards with no cables plugged in, or a Monk with a DDQ Q2 in a studio with nothing plugged in!
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Post by ragan on May 24, 2017 22:46:42 GMT -6
Gave them a brief listen on headphones before I go out. Even with the doubled vocals, I like that 47. I'd love to know of a classic U47 male vocal track. Anywhere from Sinatra to Merle Haggard to Coldplay would be cool, if it featured the vocal. I wish I could post an mp3 here. I'd like to post The Road to Ensenada, but Soundcloud won't allow it because of copyright issues, and youtube doesn't have the original track posted. About 90% of the Beatles vocals were U47s. Give a listen to some of the Anthology stuff where it's stripped down and you're just hearing a couple tracks. Lots of naked U47 vocals in there.
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Post by c0rtland on May 24, 2017 23:51:57 GMT -6
I wouldn't go by music video shoots for studio mic choice. Also I would add the U87 to this list. And maybe the SM7 and SM58. For a 251 vocal I might suggest Beck's "The Golden Age." For a U47 vocal I might suggest Thom Yorke's 'Eraser' album, along with the Radiohead album 'In Rainbows' for example the track, "Nude." I'm not questioning the legitimacy of these but I am curious where you found the info? I have only seen very limited info on Nigel's studio techniques and would love to read all that is available. Btw I can totally hear that 251 on golden age. Straight up.
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Post by rowmat on May 25, 2017 6:09:52 GMT -6
I wouldn't go by music video shoots for studio mic choice. Also I would add the U87 to this list. And maybe the SM7 and SM58. For a 251 vocal I might suggest Beck's "The Golden Age." For a U47 vocal I might suggest Thom Yorke's 'Eraser' album, along with the Radiohead album 'In Rainbows' for example the track, "Nude." I'm not questioning the legitimacy of these but I am curious where you found the info? I have only seen very limited info on Nigel's studio techniques and would love to read all that is available. Btw I can totally hear that 251 on golden age. Straight up. Are you sure Beck used a 251 on Sea Change? I was under the impression it was a U47.
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Post by Martin John Butler on May 25, 2017 8:20:59 GMT -6
Inquiring minds want to know ;-)
I listened to Sea Change a lot. It's one of my production benchmarks. It sounds about as good as any classic album we refer to for production quality.
I almost exclusively listen to vinyl now, but I have the Sea Change SACD, and it ain't too shabby.
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Post by avgatzeblouz on May 25, 2017 8:41:52 GMT -6
My reference for U47 vocal sound is McCartney "Jenny Wren" track. To die for. Or to kill for, it depends.
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Post by Martin John Butler on May 25, 2017 8:46:25 GMT -6
Thanks avgatzeblouz, I'll check that out.
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Post by jeremygillespie on May 25, 2017 9:55:03 GMT -6
These two are an SM7
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Post by Martin John Butler on May 25, 2017 10:07:07 GMT -6
The reverb on the LaMontagne track reminds me of the sound on the old Sam Cook records, clearly he was an influence. Strange how the bass is all on the right speaker, That's kind of unnatural, considering bass is mostly non directional. That's a strange decision to me. Good song.
That's a good example for SM7 aficionado, thanks Jeremy.
I never cared for the SM7 much, it sounds a little flat to me, but in a room with other instruments, I think it works well. It seems to have a little natural compression, but I can't tell for sure, since there's probably something like an LA2A on the o'Donovan track.
monkeyxx, I'm really familiar with The Golden Age, so it's good to know that's a 251. It has a kind of silky smooth sound, flawless in a way. My personal preference is BIG, and the U67 has the sound I like, but I sure wouldn't turn the mic Beck used on that track down on a cold night in the studio ;-)
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Post by Guitar on May 25, 2017 11:33:21 GMT -6
I wouldn't go by music video shoots for studio mic choice. Also I would add the U87 to this list. And maybe the SM7 and SM58. For a 251 vocal I might suggest Beck's "The Golden Age." For a U47 vocal I might suggest Thom Yorke's 'Eraser' album, along with the Radiohead album 'In Rainbows' for example the track, "Nude." I'm not questioning the legitimacy of these but I am curious where you found the info? I have only seen very limited info on Nigel's studio techniques and would love to read all that is available. Btw I can totally hear that 251 on golden age. Straight up. Haha, it's just hearsay really. I scour the net for little bits of detail, and once and a while I find some nuggets, and then forget where they are. Somebody was talking to Nigel, what did you use on Beck's vocals for Sea Change? He says something like, "Oh, I dunno, usually just a 251 or a C12." So I am just making a half-assed guess that "Golden Age" was the 251 because it sounds so much like one, to my ear. Don't ask me to pick out a C12 song. As far as the Thom Yorke tracks, I know he has used a few different mics over the years. But Nigel Godrich owns a particular U47 that he refers to simply as "The best microphone on the planet," very humble guy, haha. Yorke has been extensively pictured with and documented as using the U47 with Nigel. The reason I picked In Rainbows and Eraser particularly is that the vocal is way up front on those albums, and you can pretty clearly hear that pillowy girth, and the metal screen's 3-4K presence boosting, on those tracks. Again, to my ear. It just seems unmistakable. Albums like Kid A and Moon Shaped Pool sound like different mic choices, and they're also less well documented. I'd really like to know what the vocal mic was on King of Limbs, such a smooth sound, does not sound like a U47, maybe a U67? Now I'm really just making wild guesses.
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Post by ChaseUTB on May 25, 2017 14:46:54 GMT -6
Look up any recordings done at BlackBird Studios! Martina McBride uses a 251 as well as Celine Dion ( also uses m49 ) This is a good read on her vocal chain and what songs / albums to reference! dope article www.mixonline.com/news/profiles/capturing-passion-pursuing-perfection/366371Celine chain: 251e modified by Tony Merrill into bolder Jensen Twin Servo, ADGIL custom VU meters, GML 8200 EQ, Neve 33609J/d, into a Weiss ADC-2. Then a Lang PEQ2 and another GML 8200 for her headphone mix 🤠🏋️ $15k + $3k ( boulder $6k? ) + $4k + $4k + $9k = $35-38,000 vocal chain 🤑 This doesn't include the GML8200 or the Lang PEQ2 for the HP mix 😱🤓 Random Gear Info: The boulder was made in 1986 for Deane Jensen, then John Hardy took over building in 1987 using m1 as a base for the Twin Servo ( dual 990 op amps vs 1 in m1 )
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Post by Vincent R. on May 26, 2017 10:35:20 GMT -6
I preface first that this is the kind of music I make, so it's what I reference. I've also posted these on other threads here.
The U47/U48 I always think of Frank Sinatra during the Capitol sessions.
For me, the U67 sound is great in a theatrical context. In recent years it's become popular to video studio sessions for Broadway musical cast recordings. They are edited down, but are still showing the actual session, so you can see what was used.
Anthony Warlow, probably my favorite musical theater voice today is often recorded on a U67. This is the sound I've been referencing in my studio for my own recordings. If you like his voice he has tons of albums distributed in Australia.
Here is a nice duet filmed at Avatar Studios in NYC during the recording of the "Bridges of Madison County" Original Broadway Cast Recording. It features Steven Pasquale on an U67 and Kelly O'Hara on an ELA M 251. It also has some great theatrical singing. I reference this album a lot.
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