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Post by noah shain on May 20, 2017 10:16:35 GMT -6
Hey y'all So I'm running pro tools 10 on an hd 3 pcix system in a magma with four 192s. I'm starting to have some problems and I think it's time to upgrade.
I know...those are NOBODY's favorite converters. Almost any new converter is an upgrade right?
I use a lot of i/o and the prospect of a total system upgrade is daunting. Probably 25-30 grand. Ugh...
My head keeps going to those Antelope Orion units. Now they have a 32 HD with a digi port. Hmmm...
What do you guys think? HD native and and a pair of antelope orion could get me to 64 i/o for under 10 grand.
I'm just starting to steel myself for a big hit and I'm not up to speed at all.
What do you guys think the move is?
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Post by Johnkenn on May 20, 2017 10:41:09 GMT -6
I'd go that direction with no hesitation. Or sell your house and buy Burl. Lol. Or Apogee Symphony 32 channels for around $6500.
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Post by drbill on May 20, 2017 10:49:15 GMT -6
Noah - Avid 16X16's are a huge improvement over the 192's. If you buy from Sweetwater or VK you will think them way overpriced. I have a guy who operates lean and mean in the valley, and sells them for right around 2K for 16 channels of i/o. Brand new, full warranty and help in parsing all the arcane details of dealing with AVID. If you bought HDX card and 64 i/o you'd probably get an even better deal.
Upgrade to an HDX card and 64 channels of i/o for right about 10K and you're completely in the AVID household. If you're staying PT, I'd absolutely stay with their hardware unless you don't like the sound (doubtful). My experience with the company leaves me very sketchy about using 3rd party stuff. To make life even better, HDX is a powerhouse latency killer. Zero problems with any latency here. The 16X16's are on par with Apogee's top of the line offerings. Slightly different, but on par. Also, this guy will take back any hardware you have in trade - OR - you can implement some of it back into the new system (headphone outs, etc..)
Shoot me a PM if you want the contact info.
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Post by robschnapf on May 20, 2017 11:21:17 GMT -6
I went burl mothership. I love the sound
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Post by veggieryan on May 20, 2017 12:05:10 GMT -6
I run 2 JCF AD8 going in with PEP and 2 Revive modded Lucid 88192's for DA and monitoring AD... sold my 2 symphonies for this setup and I like it much more... Very tape like especially tracking through the Zulus...
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Post by svart on May 20, 2017 12:50:32 GMT -6
SSL alphalinks..
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Post by drbill on May 20, 2017 14:51:15 GMT -6
Something to consider if you're going to run Pro Tools exclusively. AVID - and before them, DIGI - had a bad habit of "breaking" PT software / hardware so that 3rd party hardware (or software as in the case of running DP on a PT system via DAE) doesn't work reliably. So for me, even with the shakiness of AVID in 2017, I wouldn't personally consider running anything else but AVID hardware, no matter how well it works "today". History has shown it might not work so reliably tomorrow. OR - for safety, you can go with 3rd party hardware, then stay on the same OS / PT version in the foreseeable future and call it good.
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Post by matt on May 20, 2017 15:59:54 GMT -6
I've been looking at Focusrite Red over Dante. I won't move unless I have to, and I haven't talked to anyone who owns a Dante-based system, but audio over Ethernet is exciting to me. Low latency and highly modular. 64i/o with individual headphone monitoring (there's brand choices here, but the Red AM2 looks simple/sexxxy, with iOS control!) for around $15K, give or take a few thousand. Here' an article written by Focusrite: Studio Workflow With DanteThe language is hyped, but I think the essentials are correct.
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Post by drsax on May 20, 2017 16:03:39 GMT -6
Hey y'all So I'm running pro tools 10 on an hd 3 pcix system in a magma with four 192s. I'm starting to have some problems and I think it's time to upgrade. I know...those are NOBODY's favorite converters. Almost any new converter is an upgrade right? I use a lot of i/o and the prospect of a total system upgrade is daunting. Probably 25-30 grand. Ugh... My head keeps going to those Antelope Orion units. Now they have a 32 HD with a digi port. Hmmm... What do you guys think? HD native and and a pair of antelope orion could get me to 64 i/o for under 10 grand. I'm just starting to steel myself for a big hit and I'm not up to speed at all. What do you guys think the move is? I have the Orion 32 for multitrack conversion and for all my I/O in my hybrid setup and am very pleased with it. I would recommend it. I also use a couple channels of Burl AD for lead track recording and Lynx Hilo for master buss inserts and I am very satisfied with the entire setup
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Post by ChaseUTB on May 20, 2017 16:12:41 GMT -6
I would stay away from antelope... way too many products to put out consistent solid products... Plus they have not actually proven from my research if there new PT digi link interface is actually capable of sample accurate inserts and latent Free tracking when 99% done with the mix... They phase their own products out way too quickly... Orion 32, then Orion 32+ , Orion 32+HD and now Orion Rev 2017 and the original isn't even 5 years old...
I'm afraid if you invest 10k in Antelope and one year you decide you really don't like it, you will have a hard time getting half your money back you spent. Few ideas: Lynx Apogee Burl Prism Motu
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Post by drsax on May 20, 2017 16:35:35 GMT -6
I've been looking at Focusrite Red over Dante. I won't move unless I have to, and I haven't talked to anyone who owns a Dante-based system, but audio over Ethernet is exciting to me. Low latency and highly modular. 64i/o with individual headphone monitoring (there's brand choices here, but the Red AM2 looks simple/sexxxy, with iOS control!) for around $15K, give or take a few thousand. Here' an article written by Focusrite: Studio Workflow With DanteThe language is hyped, but I think the essentials are correct. I looked at the Focusrite Red based Dante system, but in the end, the original Orion32 converters sounded better to me. Now... having 32 or 64 channels of Burl? Or the new Aurora? Heck yeah.. that would be sweet but very spendy.
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Post by drsax on May 20, 2017 16:39:10 GMT -6
I would stay away from antelope... way too many products to put out consistent solid products... Plus they have not actually proven from my research if there new PT digi link interface is actually capable of sample accurate inserts and latent Free tracking when 99% done with the mix... They phase theirniwn products out way too quickly... Orion then Orion 32 now Orion 32+ and now Orion Rev 2017 and the original isn't even 5 years old... I'm afraid if you invest 10k in Antelope and one year you decide you really don't like it, you will have a hard time getting half your money back you spent. Few ideas: Lynx Apogee Burl Prism Motu A couple things regarding Antelope... first of all - the original Orion 32 still outperforms some decent converters made today... but... I don't use their connectivity or software. I use the Orion as a standalone converter. I connect via an RME MADI FX card which is rock solid and flawless. And Orion interfaces actually allow you to configure standalone per channel... utilizing all the possible connection options. Many converters don't do that and often are limited to routing in banks of 8.
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Post by ChaseUTB on May 20, 2017 17:44:07 GMT -6
I would stay away from antelope... way too many products to put out consistent solid products... Plus they have not actually proven from my research if there new PT digi link interface is actually capable of sample accurate inserts and latent Free tracking when 99% done with the mix... They phase theirniwn products out way too quickly... Orion then Orion 32 now Orion 32+ and now Orion Rev 2017 and the original isn't even 5 years old... I'm afraid if you invest 10k in Antelope and one year you decide you really don't like it, you will have a hard time getting half your money back you spent. Few ideas: Lynx Apogee Burl Prism Motu A couple things regarding Antelope... first of all - the original Orion 32 still outperforms some decent converters made today... but... I don't use their connectivity or software. I use the Orion as a standalone converter. I connect via an RME MADI FX card which is rock solid and flawless. And Orion interfaces actually allow you to configure standalone per channel... utilizing all the possible connection options. Many converters don't do that and often are limited to routing in banks of 8. I'm glad you have a stable setup, and yes I was speaking more of the functionality of the unit not about it's sound. Many users praise the sound.
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Post by noah shain on May 20, 2017 18:12:05 GMT -6
Thanks for all the info guys.
Money is def a factor here. I just can't swallow the idea of spending 20 frigging grand on converters. Im looking at this HD 3 system that's cost me that much and my heart sinks. That's why antelope looks so good to me. But if Iearned learned anything in audio gear buying world it's that cutting $$ Out of the budget usually means cutting quality and spending the damned money later anyway. FWIW I am not looking to get any color at all from my conversion. I also know my 192s are a bit of a handicap and I'm looking forward to an improvement and feel like I earned it. I'd like to keep the same computer and stay on PT10 if I can. Is that foolish?
I have a JCF latte that I use for final capture. Should I try and sell it to put toward a big bad ass new system? It's nice to never worry about those 2 channels but...it's a $7000, two channel A/D/A. That's a lot of I/O!
I'm really after high track count, transparent, high quality and stability.
Seems my best 2 options are Avid (ugh...don't know why but I have this negative emotional response to that idea) or Antelope...if it's stable.
Am I gonna need more than 1 HDX card to do high I/O count?
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Post by ChaseUTB on May 20, 2017 18:35:54 GMT -6
64 I/o per hdx card simultaneous recording... its funny they only actually seem to limit the inputs but not the outputs.. you can combine 4 hdx cards to get 256 I/O if needed π
$7000 for a two channel converter.... wow .... that's a whole lot of Burl/ symphony/ lynx / prism/ dad / Merging π
Like you said anything will be a huge step up from the 192's, at this point like dr Bill said if staying in PT then the HD I/o are very high quality. I like the way they sound and usually do recommend them based on my experience using the converter.
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Post by drbill on May 20, 2017 20:50:05 GMT -6
Thanks for all the info guys. Money is def a factor here. I just can't swallow the idea of spending 20 frigging grand on converters. Im looking at this HD 3 system that's cost me that much and my heart sinks. That's why antelope looks so good to me. But if Iearned learned anything in audio gear buying world it's that cutting $$ Out of the budget usually means cutting quality and spending the damned money later anyway. FWIW I am not looking to get any color at all from my conversion. I also know my 192s are a bit of a handicap and I'm looking forward to an improvement and feel like I earned it. I'd like to keep the same computer and stay on PT10 if I can. Is that foolish? I have a JCF latte that I use for final capture. Should I try and sell it to put toward a big bad ass new system? It's nice to never worry about those 2 channels but...it's a $7000, two channel A/D/A. That's a lot of I/O! I'm really after high track count, transparent, high quality and stability. Seems my best 2 options are Avid (ugh...don't know why but I have this negative emotional response to that idea) or Antelope...if it's stable. Am I gonna need more than 1 HDX card to do high I/O count? Noah - Gary will take back your HD3 on trade and give you a decent price. (probably not as much as you can sell used though). You'll almost certainly want to get an HDX card over your HD cards, although they MAY be able to do it. Gary will tell you straight up. Plan on $2500ish for a single HDX card. I would not consider the 16X16's colored - just beefy, but hi-fi. I don't think you can get better stability on a PT system than with AVID converters. if you do a lot of plugins or VSTI's, then you may want to upgrade. Depending on what you're running, Gary can upgrade the motherboard and RAM in your computer (PT likes to see a lot of RAM now as it will load the entire session into ram instead of streaming off your HD) if you like. And set up up with whatever OS he suggests to best meet your system. I hear ya on the AVID "ugh..." but for me, I have to be stable and I am 110% committed to PT HDX so.....whatchagonnado? 64 i/o (16X16's) and an HDX card will probably run you a hair over $11k. Pretty close to your budget. Trade in's might bring it back into line. Or you can buy from VK or Sweetwater and pay around $25k. LOL Crazy.... Good luck. bp
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Post by ChaseUTB on May 21, 2017 1:41:04 GMT -6
Also to put into perspective... 4 UAD Apollo 16 would be $12,000..Although with not having a digi link port I don't know how the converter and HDX card would work... I believe there is HDX card that comes with a TB chassis from Avid, but again no digilink port tells me no interfacing... Now all of a sudden drbill 's idea of the new hdx card plus 3-4 16x16 Avid HD I/O for around 11k sounds pretty damn good considering how many feel the Apollo conversion could be improved upon... ( I assume this goes for the 16 too ) I was looking at Lynx Aurora 16x16 with digi link for PT HD and those are around $1600 used on Reverb. 4 of those would be $6400 give or take but buying used.. in fact I am looking at these b/c the Aurora ( N ) just released ( new model converter from Lynx )
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Post by johneppstein on May 21, 2017 2:19:30 GMT -6
Hey y'all So I'm running pro tools 10 on an hd 3 pcix system in a magma with four 192s. I'm starting to have some problems and I think it's time to upgrade. I know...those are NOBODY's favorite converters. Almost any new converter is an upgrade right? I use a lot of i/o and the prospect of a total system upgrade is daunting. Probably 25-30 grand. Ugh... My head keeps going to those Antelope Orion units. Now they have a 32 HD with a digi port. Hmmm... What do you guys think? HD native and and a pair of antelope orion could get me to 64 i/o for under 10 grand. I'm just starting to steel myself for a big hit and I'm not up to speed at all. What do you guys think the move is? Well, I don't run PT so I can't really say anything about that, but I've had the "plain vanilla" version of the Antelope Orion 32 for several months now and I love it. It's a great match for my 32 channel console and all my other hardware and has more than enough channels for a full 24 channel dump from the Studer.
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 14,919
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Post by ericn on May 21, 2017 12:08:30 GMT -6
Best sound and stability and cost, new Avid all the way. Though they haven't Recently Avid can make any third party interface any time they gel the urge. Any third party Digilink is developed with no input from Avid so in your mind there is the thought is it 100 percent compatible? Other thing to consider is that Antelope is the third company from the guy behind them and their own plugin DSP format.
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Post by sean on May 21, 2017 12:35:24 GMT -6
Avid 16x16 have been super stable for me with HD Native. Prefer the sound over the Lynx Aurora's they replaced. I think I paid $4000 for a pair second hand and that was probably 3 or 4 years ago. I'm sure the Burl's are great but not in the (credit) cards for me.
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Post by Bob Olhsson on May 21, 2017 14:16:22 GMT -6
The biggest problem with a 192 is the line stages especially running unbalanced. Some Jensen line transformers can help their performance out a lot!
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Post by noah shain on May 21, 2017 16:06:41 GMT -6
Thank so much for all the insight on this guys.
I think I'm gonna go the avid route.
Also, it's official... I'm gonna put the JCF Latte up for sale. If anybody is interested I'll give you a great deal. It's immaculate. πͺ
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Post by adamjbrass on May 22, 2017 8:39:35 GMT -6
Dr Bill, I don't think many people pay full retail price for Avid products. They are deeeeply discounted by Dealers........All over the place....
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Post by drbill on May 22, 2017 12:12:29 GMT -6
Dr Bill, I don't think many people pay full retail price for Avid products. They are deeeeply discounted by Dealers........All over the place.... 50% discounted over their web prices? I must not know the secret handshake. LOL
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Post by adamjbrass on May 22, 2017 12:14:47 GMT -6
Dr Bill, I don't think many people pay full retail price for Avid products. They are deeeeply discounted by Dealers........All over the place.... 50% discounted over their web prices? I must not know the secret handshake. LOL It is by far the most Price-whored Brand on Earth....I would bet my entire stash of gear in this world that NO one makes their full margin on any of this gear, MOST of the time.
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