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Post by lcr on May 20, 2017 9:08:57 GMT -6
Im considering updating interface(first gen Apollo) and eventually adding more I/O than I currently have. Im running a 2010 mac pro that I dont plan on replacing anytime soon, so Im limited to no thunderbolt. The MOTU stuff looks like a great way to go for future proofing, quality of conversion/clock and expandibility. Im thinking eventually If I went with MOTU I would end up with 2 16a's and 1 24 Ao. For starters I would pickup a 16a and see if I like the MOTU vibe. My question is because of currently no thunderbolt, I would use USB with a single 16A, then if I added a second 16a I would then pickup the AVB switch and no longer use USB? Will the networking specs of my 2010 mac pro meet the requirements of the MOTU AVB switch? Its pretty amazing the amount of I/O MOTU claims one can get with the switch if I understand it correctly. I appreciate any help with this.
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Post by EmRR on May 20, 2017 9:59:57 GMT -6
Research the limitations of the current drivers for AVB connection to the computer. At least initially that was 48K only and Apple would have to change a driver (or firmware?) on their end i think.
I would agree with starting slow on 1 unit and see how you feel. I'm still happy enough with the sound, but lots of other little things bother me enough to consider other systems. I suppose none are perfect.
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Post by lcr on May 20, 2017 10:13:05 GMT -6
Research the limitations of the current drivers for AVB connection to the computer. At least initially that was 48K only and Apple would have to change a driver (or firmware?) on their end i think. I would agree with starting slow on 1 unit and see how you feel. I'm still happy enough with the sound, but lots of other little things bother me enough to consider other systems. I suppose none are perfect. Thanks for the feedback, lots of other things? Usually its one or two things for me, lots is a little scary.. Ive never used MOTU, I hear lots of positive feedback including here, but Im not sure if anyone on OSX with a dinosaur machine like mine has stacked interfaces with success. Usually I run 96k, mainly because of latency, so yeah 48k would be a deal breaker for me.. hmm..
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Post by terryrocks on May 20, 2017 10:38:26 GMT -6
I currently use my single 16a like so:
16 analog in/out (patchbay) 8 adat out (4 stereo headphones feed) 4 adat in (kemper input) 1 adat out (kemper di return)
My unit held up for two years before needing to be replaced while just barely within the warrenty window. I think my problem was caused by cable strain.
My biggest complaint has been the difficulty of understanding their routing matrix...but to be honest, it's probably as simplified as can be at this time.
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Post by EmRR on May 20, 2017 10:44:17 GMT -6
Every driver update fixes or breaks some other thing. The last one made an Alphatrack control surface stop working, and getting the overall system to recognize itself took a big hit.
There's no unity gain relationship possible relating input to output.
The output circuit is decidedly non-professional, in that you can't connect an unbalanced circuit without having special cables to float the unused side versus grounding it, which causes distortion.
You have to use the AVB mixer for monitoring to achieve 'no-latency', unless you have a split patchbay system that mults inputs to both converter and analog mixer during tracking. That'd work smoothly if you also had an automatic relay switching system to move console inputs between signal input and converter output on playback, or you have twice as many console channels as you have live signal inputs. Building up a mixer scenario across multiple interfaces to cover large live band tracking needs at high sample rates with multiple phone mixes is a bit ridiculous, and even all ITB you find yourself having to drive multiple mixers in parallel. This is my single largest gripe. Clearly a lot of people seem to be running their systems at lowest possible buffer settings to avoid using the AVB mixer, I don't see how that works for anyone who actively builds mix elements as they track. Oh, and there's no allowance for a typical talkback input which dims to speakers with all this.
I'm sure others will come to me later. I can't say that anyone else's system is any better.
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Post by lcr on May 20, 2017 11:29:40 GMT -6
Every driver update fixes or breaks some other thing. The last one made an Alphatrack control surface stop working, and getting the overall system to recognize itself took a big hit. There's no unity gain relationship possible relating input to output. The output circuit is decidedly non-professional, in that you can't connect an unbalanced circuit without having special cables to float the unused side versus grounding it, which causes distortion. You have to use the AVB mixer for monitoring to achieve 'no-latency', unless you have a split patchbay system that mults inputs to both converter and analog mixer during tracking. That'd work smoothly if you also had an automatic relay switching system to move console inputs between signal input and converter output on playback, or you have twice as many console channels as you have live signal inputs. Building up a mixer scenario across multiple interfaces to cover large live band tracking needs at high sample rates with multiple phone mixes is a bit ridiculous, and even all ITB you find yourself having to drive multiple mixers in parallel. This is my single largest gripe. Clearly a lot of people seem to be running their systems at lowest possible buffer settings to avoid using the AVB mixer, I don't see how that works for anyone who actively builds mix elements as they track. Oh, and there's no allowance for a typical talkback input which dims to speakers with all this. I'm sure others will come to me later. I can't say that anyone else's system is any better. What OS?
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Post by EmRR on May 20, 2017 12:39:03 GMT -6
10.9 and then 10.10. OS change didn't affect anything i noticed.
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Post by drew571 on May 20, 2017 12:53:36 GMT -6
I currently use my single 16a like so: 16 analog in/out (patchbay) 8 adat out (4 stereo headphones feed) 4 adat in (kemper input) 1 adat out (kemper di return) My unit held up for two years before needing to be replaced while just barely within the warrenty window. I think my problem was caused by cable strain. My biggest complaint has been the difficulty of understanding their routing matrix...but to be honest, it's probably as simplified as can be at this time. Can you clarify how you are using your adat inputs and your kemper? i have a 16a as well and am thinking about getting a kemper but the kemper has coax and the 16a has optical.
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Post by terryrocks on May 20, 2017 13:49:48 GMT -6
I run unbalanced 1/4 out of my kemper (4 channel - 2 stereo wet fx, 1 mono stack, 1 mono di)
Those then insert to my behringer ada8200 and then adat to my 16a
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Post by ChaseUTB on May 20, 2017 16:24:17 GMT -6
I'm on first gen SF FW Apollo... have been looking at upgrading ... looking at Symph mk1 but it's old tech now too... On mk2 they crippled the HP output to just 1 ( boo shoulda kept 2 and upgraded both )... was considering the motu units but after reading some of the issues people have I will probably not consider those...
Lynx Aurora ( N ) is very attractive but pricey... Prism are great but even more pricey Merging Horus / Hapi Dad Ax32 Symph Mk1 or mk2 Wait for New Apollo ( not BF the next one )
Not sure how much you want to spend however I feel like there will always be new and improved converters coming out so I try to not " care " too much and pick what I can afford at the time 😀 No one is not going to buy your song because you used Motu instead of Merging Horus 😀👍
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Post by mulmany on May 20, 2017 16:48:26 GMT -6
Every driver update fixes or breaks some other thing. The last one made an Alphatrack control surface stop working, and getting the overall system to recognize itself took a big hit. There's no unity gain relationship possible relating input to output. The output circuit is decidedly non-professional, in that you can't connect an unbalanced circuit without having special cables to float the unused side versus grounding it, which causes distortion. You have to use the AVB mixer for monitoring to achieve 'no-latency', unless you have a split patchbay system that mults inputs to both converter and analog mixer during tracking. That'd work smoothly if you also had an automatic relay switching system to move console inputs between signal input and converter output on playback, or you have twice as many console channels as you have live signal inputs. Building up a mixer scenario across multiple interfaces to cover large live band tracking needs at high sample rates with multiple phone mixes is a bit ridiculous, and even all ITB you find yourself having to drive multiple mixers in parallel. This is my single largest gripe. Clearly a lot of people seem to be running their systems at lowest possible buffer settings to avoid using the AVB mixer, I don't see how that works for anyone who actively builds mix elements as they track. Oh, and there's no allowance for a typical talkback input which dims to speakers with all this. I'm sure others will come to me later. I can't say that anyone else's system is any better. I am using Toslink for monitoring, no issues at all. I did a remote session the other day, forgot my optic cable, and could not use low latency monitoring, but the latency is really low anyway so not a big issue. I ended up using the Motu mixer. I am on PT12.7 no issues with updates or anything else. Motu 16a has been the most rock solid system besides PTHD that I have used.
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Post by EmRR on May 20, 2017 16:58:12 GMT -6
I find it I'm actively building mix elements with plugs, buffers have to be set at least 1/2 second. I suspect this is a DP issue more than a Mac issue.
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