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Post by BenjaminAshlin on May 19, 2017 19:01:16 GMT -6
In terms of the continuing to invest in UA plugs. I completely hear you. Personally, I have decided not to buy any more ua plugs. Final note, the stam is real OB, not code. I have never used a real sll comp but I do really appreciate the stam ssl comp. Same boat. Unless I think it will improve my tracking workflow in terms of monitoring, I probably won't invest money in UAD plugins.
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Post by ChaseUTB on May 19, 2017 19:54:07 GMT -6
Wow K Cat not buying anymore UAD? Do you still have your octo card or did you sell all of your licenses and Apollo interface for the Symph?
I hope UAD has some tricks up their sleeve because a lot of people I have spoke with share similar feelings as you regarding UAD plugins...
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Post by kcatthedog on May 19, 2017 20:27:21 GMT -6
I sold my apollo and do have my Octo and plugs for sale. I have almost 70 plugs and have priced competitively but get low offers. personally,I blame UA's policy of not letting us sell individual plugs so peeps conclude you have no option so low ball you.
I bought the softube console 1 to experiment and to try not using any ua plugs and haven't on my last 3 mixes and frankly this with the stam on the 2 bus and warm audio on the front end and symphony mkii has resulted in my best mixes so far.
I am not down on ua quality, just wanted mobility and I see no point in buying anymore ua plugs and getting even more low balled.
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Post by ChaseUTB on May 19, 2017 21:58:44 GMT -6
I sold my apollo and do have my Octo and plugs for sale. I have almost 70 plugs and have priced competitively but get low offers. personally,I blame UA's policy of not letting us sell individual plugs so peeps conclude you have no option so low ball you. I bought the softube console 1 to experiment and to try not using any ua plugs and haven't on my last 3 mixes and frankly this with the stam on the 2 bus and warm audio on the front end and symphony mkii has resulted in my best mixes so far. I am not down on ua quality, just wanted mobility and I see no point in buying anymore ua plugs and getting even more low balled. I am happy that you are getting the best mixes you have made yet! However you get there as long as you get there 😀 70 plugins at UAD cost sheesh that's a ton of outboard even at $100 a plug... I didn't even know UAD made 70 plugins, Wow!
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Post by ChaseUTB on May 19, 2017 23:03:04 GMT -6
Well UA just got caught reselling old code, or repacking old code in a new GUI ..... the pure plate and the EMT 140 null ... Why do this regarding such a little price difference in them.. Plus next sale, UAD emt 140 will no doubt be cheaper than pure plate
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Post by NoFilterChuck on May 20, 2017 0:48:51 GMT -6
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Post by NoFilterChuck on May 20, 2017 0:50:20 GMT -6
Well UA just got caught reselling old code, or repacking old code in a new GUI ..... the pure plate and the EMT 140 null ... Why do this regarding such a little price difference in them.. Plus next sale, UAD emt 140 will no doubt be cheaper than pure plate ?!?!?! Link, please!!
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Post by kcatthedog on May 20, 2017 4:57:38 GMT -6
I don't know if the reference to Stam being cheap is meant to diminish its quality/value proposition ? The serpent costs roughly twice as much , plus you need a 500 chassis. So, completely different prices.
Certainly those are nice built in features: so different horses for different courses ?
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Post by NoFilterChuck on May 20, 2017 22:50:07 GMT -6
Over on GS, someone posted a null test of the new Pure Plate vs the EMT140 once the matching settings were found in the UAD Release thread for this update. There has actually been multiple reports of folks saying that a lot of UAD plugins are the same thing, just with different GFX a lot. Not to bash on them, but if it can be proved the same way the EMT140 v PurePlate was proved, UAD has some explaining to do..
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Post by kcatthedog on May 21, 2017 7:57:46 GMT -6
I am trying to understand the null test issue ?
So ua gives peeps a cheaper version of what was a more expensive plug in and people complain about that , ah why ?
If you already own 140, who cares ? if you don't you can buy the cheaper low featured one or buy 140 on sale if you want full features ?
If just one combo of settings nulls, I be interested to know if that means just those settings null or whether all the code is the same?
A null test is interesting, but I don't know that it actually means all the code is the same ? It seems to me that any signal will null if you manage to replicate the settings and switch phase ?
I do agree if the new verb is 140 lite, why not just be transparent about:again who cares ?
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Post by ragan on May 21, 2017 10:20:58 GMT -6
I am trying to understand the null test issue ? So ua gives peeps a cheaper version of what was a more expensive plug in and people complain about that , ah why ? If you already own 140, who cares ? if you don't you can buy the cheaper low featured one or buy 140 on sale if you want full features ? If just one combo of settings nulls, I be interested to know if that means just those settings null or whether all the code is the same? A null test is interesting, but I don't know that it actually means all the code is the same ? It seems to me that any signal will null if you manage to replicate the settings and switch phase ? I do agree if the new verb is 140 lite, why not just be transparent about:again who cares ? Right. Who cares? Tons of plugin makers sell Lite versions. Cheaper, less extensive tweakabilty/settings. Like the 7th Heaven people have been talking about. I see zero scandal here.
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Post by Johnkenn on May 21, 2017 16:24:07 GMT -6
Disclaimer: The views and opinions expressed in this thread are those of the authors and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of RGO.
There...got that out of the way.
A scandal would be if the code for all the EQs was the same.
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Post by kcatthedog on May 21, 2017 16:55:28 GMT -6
Shshh !
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Post by ChaseUTB on May 21, 2017 23:50:57 GMT -6
It's another money grab... If UAD came out and said he thi is Plate B from the 140 with less features then people work respect that. Ppl who own the 140 where going to purchase this "new" plate plug which isn't new at all... the 140 will be cheaper on the next sale anyway so to me UAD is wasting time releasing a stripped down plate plug... Let's look at the 4k bus comp, then the SSL G bus that's officially licensed. Exact same plug. Don't believe look it up same exact dsp usage 2.8 % and 3.4% UAD instance chart Mono Stereo 4K Buss Compressor 2.8% 3.4% SSL G Bus Compressor 2.8% 3.4% Legacy help.uaudio.com/hc/en-us/articles/215262223-UAD-2-Instance-Chart?mobile_site=true
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Post by javamad on May 22, 2017 0:50:18 GMT -6
Not saying the code is the same or different... I don't know because I have not seen it ... but I work in IT and the conclusion people are making here is like saying that two Word files that are the exact same size must have the same text written inside. Or two jpeg files that are the same size must be the exact same photo. It doesn't work like that. Another pair of plugins that have the same CPU usage are a chorus pedal and a compressor: Brigade Chorus Pedal 2.00% 2.70% dbx 160 Compressor 2.00% 2.70% Or these two: Roland Dimension D 2.90% 3.30% Sonnox Oxford Inflator 2.90% 3.30% But hey, so much of this is about the faith in the product and liking what they do to your mix. If it was an exact science there would be only one possible mix of each song and that would be pretty boring :-) Sounds like you have a new workflow that is working for you and that's great. Another thing is the value that software has second hand. Again, if you look outside audio, you will see that generally it does not hold it's value well at all. New versions come along and super-cede the old at an alarming rate. And as you quite correctly point out, the software in this case is locked to the hardware, which is proprietary. I have two Apollo 8, a Satellite and 41 plugins myself... so I am equally committed. But I am mentally/financially writing off both hardware and software with each month that goes by.
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Post by kcatthedog on May 22, 2017 4:17:57 GMT -6
I personally don't believe that dsp usage confirms it's the same code as it is only a measure of processing capacity consumption.
I think the opinions of people at UA forum (some of whom I know), who have a/b both and who are giving the new ssl comp stellar reviews is more revealing.
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Post by kcatthedog on May 22, 2017 4:25:56 GMT -6
@java ua with ua plugs you can certainly buy high so given their resale value,makes more sense to buy low:but peeps get caught up in the new plug frenzy:) After realizing all the duplications in plug ins I have I see no point in buying more of same. I also find invariably less is more for clarity and sound quality if I have done good capture:I am more focussed on getting back to basics but trying for good performance,capture,production and interesting creativity throughout,if possible !
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Post by Martin John Butler on May 22, 2017 8:23:16 GMT -6
This speaks to the general situation regarding plug-ins. Once you have dozens, there are only going to be a couple here and there you really need, and a only a few more you want. I wouldn't mind a Softube EQ, Melodyne, and a better De-esser, but I'm OK with the ones I have.
As for UAD, they have so many plug-ins already, it has already reached the saturation point. In Logic, Apple's plug-ins are good enough that you can make pro tracks with them alone. Then there are many free plugs around, I must have a dozen useful free plugs. Hi end reverbs are everywhere, Relab, Slate, Liquid Sonics, Exponential, etc., so you don't need a UAD reverb. Their plates have been bested by others now. Where I've found UAD essential was in the ATR-102 and the Ocean Way. Even that may change, the LiquidSonics 7th Heaven may become my "main room" sound instead of the Ocean Way, (we'll see), but the point is, they're becoming less and less essential ever day.
My hope is UAD does two things, one, begin innovating and creating new designs instead of modeling ever more obscure pieces of hardware, and that they start competing in the hardware market too. I think they would do well to build and create new products, and lower costs on their classic hardware.
Bill Putnam was an innovator, and I hope UAD finds their way back to thinking forward, like he did.
Oh, and as good as the Apollo is, they should offer a premium upgrade, so the conversion can compete with products like the Symphony. I like the sound of a Symphony enough that if I could afford it, I'd get a symphony, sell my Apollo 8, and use the satellite for their plugs, even if it meant a few less instantiations.
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Post by ChaseUTB on May 22, 2017 8:50:54 GMT -6
Do the tests for yourself re: the 4k and SSL legacy if you would like too 😀
Yeah. You are guys are right it probably just coincidence 😁 that a new and improved version of a plugin used the same dsp %... ( the legacy was the official SSL endorsed, 4k preceded it ) Not talking about the newest just released Bus comp..
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Post by ragan on May 22, 2017 9:05:50 GMT -6
Do the tests for yourself re: the 4k and SSL legacy if you would like too 😀 Yeah. You are guys are right it probably just coincidence 😁 that a new and improved version of a plugin used the same dsp %... ( the legacy was the official SSL endorsed, 4k preceded it ) The point is simply that you can't tell whether it's the same plug just by matching DSP usage. As has been pointed out, lots of completely different plugs have the exact same DSP usage.
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Post by ChaseUTB on May 22, 2017 9:20:14 GMT -6
javamad that is not apples to apples ... of course a pedal sim and a compressor aren't the same code... Of course an inflator is a different plug than a delay... regardless of code man ... 🤠 If there was a limiter that used 5% Then the new limiter mk2 is released that is a new ground up model that also uses 5%, you don't find that at least odd and want to test this? Every other new mk2 or updated UA plug has a big dsp increase from its current predecessor.
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Post by Johnkenn on May 22, 2017 9:29:26 GMT -6
javamad that is not apples to apples ... of course a pedal sim and a compressor aren't the same code... Of course an inflator is a different plug than a delay... regardless of code man ... 🤠 If there was a limiter that used 5% Then the new limiter mk2 is released that is a new ground up model that also uses 5%, you don't find that at least odd and want to test this? Every other new mk2 or updated UA plug has a big dsp increase from its current predecessor. Not really. Maybe hey should be commended for keeping the dsp usage the same.
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Post by ChaseUTB on May 22, 2017 9:33:48 GMT -6
javamad that is not apples to apples ... of course a pedal sim and a compressor aren't the same code... Of course an inflator is a different plug than a delay... regardless of code man ... 🤠 If there was a limiter that used 5% Then the new limiter mk2 is released that is a new ground up model that also uses 5%, you don't find that at least odd and want to test this? Every other new mk2 or updated UA plug has a big dsp increase from its current predecessor. Not really. Maybe hey should be commended for keeping the dsp usage the same. Where has there been a mk2 or an upgrade where the dsp usage was the same? The past 4-5 years each plugin update single instance dsp usage rises sometimes a lot more than others... You guys have the plugs and can do the tests for yourself. Have a great day guys!
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Post by Johnkenn on May 22, 2017 10:22:43 GMT -6
Not really. Maybe hey should be commended for keeping the dsp usage the same. Where has there been a mk2 or an upgrade where the dsp usage was the same? The past 4-5 years each plugin update single instance dsp usage rises sometimes a lot more than others... You guys have the plugs and can do the tests for yourself. Have a great day guys! Will do.
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Post by kcatthedog on May 22, 2017 11:04:57 GMT -6
I have read reviews of people who have replaced the legacy ssl comp with the new in their completed mixes, who are saying it is sonically much improved:that comparison seems much more revealing than abstract dsp comparisons ?
I actually think identical dsp usage could be revealing the efficiency improvement of the code. UA states more of the device was modelled so if dsp is the same then the new plug is modelling more at the same dsp amount so is more efficient.
This seems more probable to me.
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